87electric
Member
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 1,027
That's right. Viruses are not living organisms. Bacteria is a living organism. People need to understand the basics.
Building hospitals is one thing, getting the staff in to run said new hospital is probably harder.Aaah so1/3 trillion on lockdown spending might have been better spent on building completely new hospitals and calling them something like Bluebirds.
Oh wait.....
That's right. Viruses are not living organisms. Bacteria is a living organism. People need to understand the basics.
The new variant has been around since at least September, but probably much earlier. And here's a theory for you, it is possible that the first lockdown which slowed the previous variant gave the new one a foothold which it might not have had otherwise if the previous one had continued to spread. It happens all the time in nature, when one genetic line is suppressed new ones able to take advantage do so.The virus is a living thing and changing. The spread now is far worse and the lockdown in November was too late and not extensive enough as schools and universities were open. This has allowed the virus to establish itself more widely and the relaxation on December 2 allowed it once more to spread.
Since then a more virulent strain has made things worse.
The obsessive use of hand sanitiser is likely brewing another problem. It's noticable that there are fewer coughs and colds going around; my kids have only had one since March. Sooner or later one will turn up which is resistant to hand gels etc. and then half the country will get it.The new variant has been around since at least September, but probably much earlier. And here's a theory for you, it is possible that the first lockdown which slowed the previous variant gave the new one a foothold which it might not have had otherwise if the previous one had continued to spread. It happens all the time in nature, when one genetic line is suppressed new ones able to take advantage do so.
The obsessive use of hand sanitiser is likely brewing another problem. It's noticable that there are fewer coughs and colds going around; my kids have only had one since March. Sooner or later one will turn up which is resistant to hand gels etc. and then half the country will get it.
And no doubt someone will call for a series of lockdowns and compulsory daily sheep dips for the population. Just as an aside I have had a series of colds all winter thus far, and I've barely been anywhere, worn face coverings, used sanitisers. So maybe I am patient zero of the new, improved cold causing virus....The obsessive use of hand sanitiser is likely brewing another problem. It's noticable that there are fewer coughs and colds going around; my kids have only had one since March. Sooner or later one will turn up which is resistant to hand gels etc. and then half the country will get it.
This just proves there is no logic to this at all. I've been out on trains all over the country whenever restrictions permit it, never used hand sanitiser and not had so much as a sneeze!And no doubt someone will call for a series of lockdowns and compulsory daily sheep dips for the population. Just as an aside I have had a series of colds all winter thus far, and I've barely been anywhere, worn face coverings, used sanitisers. So maybe I am patient zero of the new, improved cold causing virus....
Probably have a very good immune system through exposure to other pathogens. I'm the same, get occasional sore throat but that seems to coincide with times I have to wear a mask frequently.This just proves there is no logic to this at all. I've been out on trains all over the country whenever restrictions permit it, never used hand sanitiser and not had so much as a sneeze!
I don’t think we’ll see alcohol resistant ‘germs’ due to the mechanism by which it destroys them (i.e. it physically breaks them down). We’re certainly running the risk of weakening our own immune systems though.
Alcohol-based disinfectants are a key way to control hospital infections worldwide. Pidot et al. now show that the multidrug-resistant bacterium Enterococcus faecium has become increasingly tolerant to the alcohols in widely used hospital disinfectants such as hand rub solutions. These findings may help explain the recent increase in this pathogen in hospital settings. A global response to E. faecium will need to include consideration of its adaptive responses not only to antibiotics but also to alcohols and the other active agents in disinfectant solutions that have become so critical for effective infection control.
Sadly that doesn't appear to be the case; see here for example
https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/10/452/eaar6115
Increasing tolerance of hospital Enterococcus faecium to handwash alcohols
Personally I'm far more concerned about the long-term health implications of antimicrobial resistance than I am about the long-term effects of Covid and similar.
There is no correlation in effect of spreading the virus between lockdown/no lockdown an no correlation with fierceness of lockdown either.
I think we may be in store for adverts in the future, something like
"Were you harmed by Lockdown and SAGE?
Are you unable to leave the house due to fear of Covid25? Did you suffer anxiety or depression? Did a medical condition worsen due to the Annual Winter Lockdown? Was your business irreparably damaged? Did you lose your job/marriage/socialising/kids education?" and so on. The future is now, and needs curtailing. Let's get those vulnerable vaccinated, and start getting back to normal.
I think we may be in store for adverts in the future, something like
"Were you harmed by Lockdown and SAGE?
Are you unable to leave the house due to fear of Covid25? Did you suffer anxiety or depression? Did a medical condition worsen due to the Annual Winter Lockdown? Was your business irreparably damaged? Did you lose your job/marriage/socialising/kids education?" and so on. The future is now, and needs curtailing. Let's get those vulnerable vaccinated, and start getting back to normal.
From lockdownsceptics.org - part of this is picking up where Simon Dolan was forced to leave off after the Supreme Court refused to hear him.
Personally I'd start by sequestering all cash, real estate and valuable assets owned by members of SAGE, leave them to live on £75 a week or whatever JSA is these days, and use that as compensation for lockdown victims. And as for Ferguson, I'd give him the option of emigrating to China with no right of return, or life incarceration for what is morally equivalent to treason.
The bigger problem is that if these so called experts are insulated from the consequences of their actions they will keep doing this every time we have a bad flu or other winter virus season with the threshold getting lower and lower as the ratchet tightens.The problem with an action like that would be the complete and permanent loss of all expert advisors to government. No scientists, epidemiologists, virologists, economists, medics, nothing, all gone- nobody would touch it with a bargepole
My views on outfits like that are unprintable.
The problem with an action like that would be the complete and permanent loss of all expert advisors to government. No scientists, epidemiologists, virologists, economists, medics, nothing, all gone- nobody would touch it with a bargepole
The bigger problem is that if these so called experts are insulated from the consequences of their actions they will keep doing this every time we have a bad flu or other winter virus season with the threshold getting lower and lower as the ratchet tightens.
If people don't start small businesses, the main driver of the economy, we will as a nation face ruin and poverty and be unable to pay for pensions, welfare, schools and health.
Who in their right mind would now risk their savings and put their house up as collateral to start a business, given that we now know that the government could at any time issue a dictact which would either close the business down or drive away customers for months on end?
Until Blair changed the rules, councillors making poor decisions could be surcharged. The bar was set high, but it did occur and councillors who fell foul of it had their homes reposessed.You both make very good points. We need experts without a doubt. They do however need to be accountable. People like Ferguson certainly have no place on SAGE.
Perhaps a professional council as with doctors with the power to fine, disbar and disgrace such advisors.
You both make very good points. We need experts without a doubt. They do however need to be accountable.
I would like to arrange a swap between the leaders of both SAGE and independent SAGE and a cross-section of the population for a month. Examples are those on furlough so reduced income, those whose employed job is under threat due to lack of orders to the business, company directors and managers plus self-employed trying to keep their business viable, those trying to run hospitality just as a take-away, those juggling child care let alone home schooling with either working from home or still going to work. Afterwards overall would they then present a more balanced approach ?
If I was in Johnnsons place, much as I would hate myself for doing it I would probably have done the same as him.Advisors advise, ministers decide. You are falling hook line and sinker for the trap the politicians have set you. The problem is not the advisors being accountable or not. The problem is the government ministers in the cabinet (particularly the PM) who have tied themselves to letter of what one particular set of advisors are saying in an attempt to shield themselves from accountability. It is not the job of advisors to present a balanced approach. It is the job of ministers to provide advise in their specific area of expertise. It is then up to the politicians to weigh this advise against similarly unbalanced advice from other advisors about other aspects of government and society. Then crucially make the decisions no pass the buck at every opportunity.
David1212's suggestion of and cross-section of the population advising the government is not a terrible idea. It is the basis of the idea of a citizen's assembly, and ould be certainly more accountable than the 'think tanks' and 'focus groups' that politicians so love. But I would argue it should very much be in addition to the specific expert advice from SAGE not instead of it.
Advisors advise, ministers decide. You are falling hook line and sinker for the trap the politicians have set you. The problem is not the advisors being accountable or not. The problem is the government ministers in the cabinet (particularly the PM) who have tied themselves to letter of what one particular set of advisors are saying in an attempt to shield themselves from accountability. It is not the job of advisors to present a balanced approach. It is the job of ministers to provide advise in their specific area of expertise. It is then up to the politicians to weigh this advise against similarly unbalanced advice from other advisors about other aspects of government and society. Then crucially make the decisions no pass the buck at every opportunity.
David1212's suggestion of and cross-section of the population advising the government is not a terrible idea. It is the basis of the idea of a citizen's assembly, and ould be certainly more accountable than the 'think tanks' and 'focus groups' that politicians so love. But I would argue it should very much be in addition to the specific expert advice from SAGE not instead of it.
From how I read that is that he is against any easing of restrictions at the end of Feb, even say the opening of primary schools. If certain SAGE scientists get their way then there would probably be no significant easing until late spring or early summer.A leading epidemiologist says it would be "a disaster" to lift lockdown measures in the UK at the end of February, when the government hopes to have the most vulnerable groups vaccinated.
Professor John Edmunds - who works on the Government's coronavirus response as part of the scientific advisory group for emergencies (Sage) - warns vaccines are not 100% protective, and cautions only a small fraction of the population will have been vaccinated by then.
"If you look at the hospitalisations at the moment, about half of them are in the under-70s, and they are not in the first wave to be vaccinated," he tells BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"If we relaxed our restrictions we would immediately put the NHS under enormous pressure again."
If they had had their way we would have had a continious last March style lockdown ever since then.So this morning John Edmunds who is on SAGE has said in the media that the end of February is too early to lift restrictions.
From how I read that is that he is against any easing of restrictions at the end of Feb, even say the opening of primary schools. If certain SAGE scientists get their way then there would probably be no significant easing until late spring or early summer.