Whats the most successful Locomotive or Unit in the UK?

[TT-ONR-NRN]

390 Pendolinos are bound to end up as successful. They have hammered up and down the WCML for almost twenty years and will probably do at least ten more in a age of much greater railway patronage. They are fantastic machines.

I agree, truly revolutionary, and I’m sure the Avanti West Coast refurbishment will iron out the only major remaining flaws such as lack of window armrest and few plug sockets. They’ll be around for a good while and have been the only successful British tilting train.

 

[northernbelle]

For me it has to be the 'Sprinter' type DMUs - especially the 150s.

They have done an reasonably unfussed job for many years and still perform the duties for which they were designed to this day.

I struggle a bit more with the notion that certain other types have been hugely successful. Some, such as 'Pacers' and HSTs have had significant redesigns of key equipment over the years and so have been refined over time. There's no doubt the HST has been a great train, but it has been the subject of decades of in-service design development and has seen a myriad of design flaws ironed out in its half century - one wonders what other types might have been developed into given a similar level of input.

The 'Sprinter' fleet, other than cosmetics, is largely running today to a design they had when delivered new.

 

[bramling]

For me it has to be the 'Sprinter' type DMUs - especially the 150s.

They have done an reasonably unfussed job for many years and still perform the duties for which they were designed to this day.

I struggle a bit more with the notion that certain other types have been hugely successful. Some, such as 'Pacers' and HSTs have had significant redesigns of key equipment over the years and so have been refined over time. There's no doubt the HST has been a great train, but it has been the subject of decades of in-service design development and has seen a myriad of design flaws ironed out in its half century - one wonders what other types might have been developed into given a similar level of input.

The 'Sprinter' fleet, other than cosmetics, is largely running today to a design they had when delivered new.

Good shout for Sprinters. They’ve been the backbone of provincial services for over three decades, and have been completely and utterly thrashed over that time yet have managed to remain good performers. Indeed the 156s in particular have proven to be pretty much indestructible.

 

[gbbub321]

If this has been done before sorry or delete if want. What's the most successful type of locomotive or unit based in the UK. Can be one overall or in various categories steam, diesel or electric. Can add your favourite if doesn't apply.

I'd say Class 37 60 years old I believe still in use daily to some degree. Can haule passenger and freight, run most places. My favourite is Class 50.

Ide say the mighty DELTIC, like the two that are in storage at Wakefield europort at normanton,

 

[RichJF]

Thanks to their longevity, it has to be either class 37s or 86s. ROG are refurbing their 37s and many are still going strong on the mainline. As we all know Freightliner have mentioned overhauling the 86s.

The class 101 DMUs were long-serving units until their retirement and still served a purpose.
HST is a worthy nod too.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

141s... a classic bit of typical British "garden shed engineering" which eventually secured export orders (well, kind of...)

 

[delt1c]

Regarding EMU's it has to be the PEPs derivatives, taken for granted by travelling public but pure reliable work horses, after them I would say 317's and 455' worked very hard but reliable

 

[Alanko]

Ide say the mighty DELTIC, like the two that are in storage at Wakefield europort at normanton,

I'm not sure I follow. I've not heard of two Deltics being stored in Normanton.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I agree, truly revolutionary, and I’m sure the Avanti West Coast refurbishment will iron out the only major remaining flaws such as lack of window armrest and few plug sockets. They’ll be around for a good while and have been the only successful British tilting train.

Oh. Are the Avanti nee Virgin 221s not successful then ?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Oh. Are the Avanti nee Virgin 221s not successful then ?

Ah I forgot they tilted Those too I guess
Though some might call Voyagers extremely unsuccessful

 

[Purple Orange]

There is a lot of love for HSTs on here and I get that they were success due to being very innovative & revolutionary trains for the 1970s & 80s as well as their longevity of 40 odd years.

However I feel that the most successful train has been the Pendolinos. These trains are now 20 years old and in their early days were also very innovative & revolutionary trains for the WCML, just as the HST was for the ECML & GWML. However a key difference for me is the passenger experience. In the mid 90s, the HST started to feel dated and requiring significant refurbishment to bring it up to standard after 20 years service. The Pendolino doesn’t have that same issue and will carry on until HS2 is up and running, by which point the trains will be roughly 30-35 years old.

In 20 years time, I will probably look at the bi-mode IETs in a similar light, certainly the most revolutionary from an environmental perspective. Removing diesel running under wires for great stretches of their routes.

 

[DerekC]

It all depends how you define success! You could go for the biggest class of locomotives - because presumably if the design hadn't been successful only a few would have been built. In the age of steam, a quick run through my 1959 Ian Allan spotters book suggests the following "top eight" for consideration (many of which have ben suggested already):

LMS Stanier Class 5 4-6-0 - 842 locos
GWR 5700 Class 0-6-0PT - 810 locos
LMS Fowler Class 4F 0-6-0 - 736 locos
MoD Class WD 2-8-0 - 733 locos
LMS Stanier Class 8F 2-8-0 - 666 locos
LMS Fowler & Stanier Class 4 2-6-4T - 645 locos
LNER Thompson Class B1 4-6-0 - 409 locos
LNER (GC) Robinson Class O1/O4 2-8-0 - 327 locos

Interesting that it's dominated by LMS classes, that the GWR only just gets a look in and Southern doesn't get on the list at all!

 

[Mikey C]

There is a lot of love for HSTs on here and I get that they were success due to being very innovative & revolutionary trains for the 1970s & 80s as well as their longevity of 40 odd years.

However I feel that the most successful train has been the Pendolinos. These trains are now 20 years old and in their early days were also very innovative & revolutionary trains for the WCML, just as the HST was for the ECML & GWML. However a key difference for me is the passenger experience. In the mid 90s, the HST started to feel dated and requiring significant refurbishment to bring it up to standard after 20 years service. The Pendolino doesn’t have that same issue and will carry on until HS2 is up and running, by which point the trains will be roughly 30-35 years old.

In 20 years time, I will probably look at the bi-mode IETs in a similar light, certainly the most revolutionary from an environmental perspective. Removing diesel running under wires for great stretches of their routes.

The Pendolinos are hardly universally loved though. I find them mechanically impressive, but not especially comfortable inside with their cramped interiors and small, poorly aligned windows

 

[cjmillsnun]

For EMUs definitely the Electrostar. In production for almost 20 years. 679 built for successful operation by Greater Anglia, c2c, Southeastern, Southern, Overground, Great Northern, GWR and even Gautrain in South Africa

What about the Mk1 EMUs? They may not have been exported but were built in similar numbers over 24 years and were in service from the 60s until 2010

 

[Purple Orange]

The Pendolinos are hardly universally loved though. I find them mechanically impressive, but not especially comfortable inside with their cramped interiors and small, poorly aligned windows

I wouldn’t say there is any train that is universally loved.

 

[Prestige15]

Loco: Class 43/47/66

Units: Turbostar/Electrostars

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

It all depends how you define success! You could go for the biggest class of locomotives - because presumably if the design hadn't been successful only a few would have been built. In the age of steam, a quick run through my 1959 Ian Allan spotters book suggests the following "top eight" for consideration (many of which have ben suggested already):

LMS Stanier Class 5 4-6-0 - 842 locos
GWR 5700 Class 0-6-0PT - 810 locos
LMS Fowler Class 4F 0-6-0 - 736 locos
MoD Class WD 2-8-0 - 733 locos
LMS Stanier Class 8F 2-8-0 - 666 locos
LMS Fowler & Stanier Class 4 2-6-4T - 645 locos
LNER Thompson Class B1 4-6-0 - 409 locos
LNER (GC) Robinson Class O1/O4 2-8-0 - 327 locos

Interesting that it's dominated by LMS classes, that the GWR only just gets a look in and Southern doesn't get on the list at all!

I know you're only quoting a snapshot, but I think there were more 8Fs than 666? Wiki says 852 were built, and I think they served with all of the Big Four as well as overseas? That sounds pretty impressive and I'd suggest they are the steam era winner?

 

[DerekC]

For EMUs I would put in a word for Desiros. There are about 540 of them just in the UK (sorry, that includes DMUs, but nevertheless), and many, many other Desiro labelled units across the world. I appreciate that in fact the name covers a wide variety of designs, but nevertheless one not to be forgotten. In terms of passenger space and comfort I think the 444s are right up there. And the 700s (love them or hate them) have a fantastic passenger swallowing capability.

 

[Western Sunset]

I'd go for Churchward's Saints (2-cylinder which led the way to what happened on the GW and later [via Stanier/Riddles] all the LMS/BR Standard types) and his Stars (4-cylinder variant) for similar express types.

More modern stuff = Cl.59 / 66 for freight, HST for passenger.

 

[Richard Scott]

I know you're only quoting a snapshot, but I think there were more 8Fs than 666? Wiki says 852 were built, and I think they served with all of the Big Four as well as overseas? That sounds pretty impressive and I'd suggest they are the steam era winner?

842 were built, quoted as most numerous class in Britain.

 

[matchmaker]

842 were built, quoted as most numerous class in Britain.

But were a lot of these not built for the MOD and went abroad during WW2?

 

[Richard Scott]

But were a lot of these not built for the MOD and went abroad during WW2?

No that was 8Fs not black 5s.

 

[DerekC]

I'd go for Churchward's Saints (2-cylinder which led the way to what happened on the GW and later [via Stanier/Riddles] all the LMS/BR Standard types) and his Stars (4-cylinder variant) for similar express types.

That's another version of "successful" - i.e. most influential on subsequent designs. On that basis "Rocket" stands supreme, I would have thought!

Or you could go for "iconic" - in which case A3s ("Flying Scotsman") and A4s ("Mallard") are hard to beat!

 

[Bevan Price]

The LNWR Webb "DX Goods" 0-6-0s were another large class. with 863 locos. Then they followed with 500 locos of the slightly larger "Coal Engine" 0-6-0s.
The Johnson 0-6-0s of the Midland Railway were also very numerous, but not all identical. There were some variations of driving wheel diameter, and then many locos were built - or rebuilt - with larger boilers (LMS Classes 2F then 3F). A total of 935 locos were built for the Midland Railway, plus another 28 for the Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway -- and about a similar number for the Midland & Great Northern Railway.

On the Great Western, some 57xx 0-6-0T had already been withdrawn by the time the 1959 ABC was published, and this class also consisted of 863 locos.

A lot more Robinson GCR (O4) 2-8-0s and WD 2-8-0s were built than saw service with BR. Many of both classes were sent / sold overseas.
WW1 ended before completion of building orders for the Robinson 2-8-0s, and many went straight into store. The GWR bought a batch (30xx Class), and the LNWR/LMSR also bought some - but did not keep them for very long. Some sources say there were loading guage clearance problems on certain lines, but I wonder if there was also an instinctive dislike of "something designed by another railway" ?
And sadly, some were neglected in store for several years, and were probably scrapped without ever being used in revenue-earning service.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Interesting that it's dominated by LMS classes, that the GWR only just gets a look in and Southern doesn't get on the list at all!

The SR's network has less freight than the others, even in proportion to its size (it had no coalfields to speak of) and much ofits p0assenger network was electrified.
Class 08 beats all of those, even if you exclude the variants (Classes 09-12). And is arguably steam age - the first one was built the year berfore the first 9F .

T In the mid 90s, the HST started to feel dated and requiring significant refurbishment to bring it up to standard after 20 years service.

Really? The environment of a Pendolino was a huge step backwards from the Mark 3s they replaced, even after Branson's neglect of them.

Ide say the mighty DELTIC, like the two that are in storage at Wakefield europort at normanton,

The Deltic had glamour, and was good at what it did, but it was a sensitive thoroughbred. There is a reason only 22 were built, and they lasted only 20 years.

Class 76, they were revolutionary and who knows how long they would’ve lasted had they not been scrapped early.

Early? They might have lasted longer had BR not decided to standardise on AC supply, but when they were withdrawn in 1981 they were already the oldest locomotives in service, having been built between 1950 and 1953 (disregarding the prototype "Tommy" which was ten years older but had been withdrawn some years before. (Indeed, apart from a few EPBs and the Isle of Wight stock, I think they were the oldest traction of any kind)
Apart from regenerative braking, which had been tried before, albeit with less success (e.g the Underground's "Metasdyne" stock), how were they revolutionary?

(The larger but less sophisticated Class 77s lasted until 1985, having been sold to Netherlands Railways in 1968 when the Woodhead Line passenger services for which they were built were withdrawn)

 

[Purple Orange]

Really? The environment of a Pendolino was a huge step backwards from the Mark 3s they replaced, even after Branson's neglect of them.

Yes. The pendolinos have been hugely popular with the travelling public and the idea that the interior of the trains they replaced being superior is madness. Awful seats, dated, unclean. When both the Voyagers and Pendolinos came to the Virgin network, it became a pleasure to travel on the train again. XC have made a hash of the Voyagers though.

 

[43096]

Yes. The pendolinos have been hugely popular with the travelling public and the idea that the interior of the trains they replaced being superior is madness. Awful seats, dated, unclean. When both the Voyagers and Pendolinos came to the Virgin network, it became a pleasure to travel on the train again. XC have made a hash of the Voyagers though.

Awful seats, unclean....

That's a Pendolino isn't it?

 

[Purple Orange]

Awful seats, unclean....

That's a Pendolino isn't it?

Nope. I’ll skip over irony and state that in the early 2000s, the Mk3s were great for train enthusiasts and nostalgia over the last 20 years has only increased the appeal for that sub-culture. From the perspective of the public, stepping on to a train with automatic doors rather than messing on with the awkward door handles, spacious toilets rather than cramped cubicles (granted the pendolino has a few of those too), a ‘shop’ rather than a hatch looking out on to a cramped corridor for people to pass through, electronic seat reservations rather than the paper tickets, seats with proper head rests rather than those ones that were only shoulder height, and a faster journey time too.

No question, the Pendolino is better than Mk3 carriages.

 

[Speed43125]

Nope. I’ll skip over irony and state that in the early 2000s, the Mk3s were great for train enthusiasts and nostalgia over the last 20 years has only increased the appeal for that sub-culture. From the perspective of the public, stepping on to a train with automatic doors rather than messing on with the awkward door handles, spacious toilets rather than cramped cubicles (granted the pendolino has a few of those too), a ‘shop’ rather than a hatch looking out on to a cramped corridor for people to pass through, electronic seat reservations rather than the paper tickets, seats with proper head rests rather than those ones that were only shoulder height, and a faster journey time too.

No question, the Pendolino is better than Mk3 carriages.

I'll second that.

 

[Chris217]

I would agree with many on here.
1st HST. Pioneer train that revolutionised inter City.
2nd class 47 jack of all trades
3rd
class 66. Works straight out of the box.

For Units it has to be the Pacer.
A short gap that proved its worth.
Although I suspect the Pacer haters will view this very differently.