Wheelchair passenger not allowed to board

[Oswyntail]

Has there been an official NR statement? If not, I suggest we wait until there is one.

 

[jon0844]

I'm going mad from ping pong between forums, but did I read Tony say that NR wouldn't be issuing a statement?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I'm going mad from ping pong between forums, but did I read Tony say that NR wouldn't be issuing a statement?

Not on here I don't think - check Digital Spy!

 

[jon0844]

No, can't find it there.. I must have imagined it. Scratch that then - I don't want to be accused of misrepresenting what Tony has to say (he can do that himself).

 

[jimrbrobinson]

My evidence is the meeting with NR today. I understand you can not take anything about this meeting seriously until confirmed by NR, but as they have no intention to do so I would suggest that you wait until the final outcome. I will not be letting this go yet and will keep this thread members informed of any future developments. Until then I will not be posting in this thread.

I am however willing to do a test run to proove that I can use this train with these ramp/s at the specified stations/platforms without problems. If anyone is willing to arrange that then PM me and I will be ready.

Is this what you were looking for Jon? FWIW, when I read it, I interpreted it to mean that NR will not be making any statements on the matter. Why they'd leave it for the complainant to make such a statement on thier behalf is beyond me. As for him being asked by NR about the guard not being sacked, well I'm not even going to dignify that one with a response.

Final outcome? What would that be. If they've had a meeting and told you the conclusions, that IS the final outcome by definition surely?

 

[jon0844]

That's it! So I am not going mad! It's been a busy week for me and I thought I was losing it.

 

[90019]

I have today had the meeting with Northen Rail. I am not able to go into the details but can let you know that they apologised and agreed with me in my argument - which was that I SHOULD have been allowed onto this train and that there was no reason not to. They went through all the evidence and could not find any reason for not letting me on this specific train.

I find this very interesting.

A few days after someone brings the topic up again, he has somewhat conveniently just had a meeting with Northern which he can, somewhat unsurprisingly, provide no proof whatsoever of having.
He than makes claims about it that are almost certainly false.

He don't deserve to be allowed on the trains with an attitude like his.


You know what, I'm going to make an assumption about this man (Though I hesitate to call him that, as he is clearly not) judging from his posting and attitude shown on forums and in the youtube video. From where I'm standing he appears to be the sort of person who claims that all people disabled or not should have equal opportunities (Something I am very much for, don't get me wrong), but then demands special privileges over everyone else at the same time (Something that really irritates me).

 

[jimrbrobinson]

In my experience, I generally find that if something seems fishy, then it usually turns out to be fishy. Something about this whole 'meeting with Northern Rail' statement just doesn't seem to ring true to me in all honesty. In fact something seems amiss to me, on several levels, about this latest 'update' from Mr. Aryan. For a start there is no way on earth an employer would discuss specifics about an employee with a complainant. The most they will be told is 'the staff member involved with be dealt with in accordance with our established disciplinary and grievance procedures' (or words to that effect). They are certainly not going to ask the complainant's opinion of what they intend to do. As to the rest, it is my understanding that is has been established as fact that there ARE known issues with the combination of Class 142 DMU's, the ramps with which they are equipped, AND the layout of the platform in question in Guide Bridge. I simply cannot understand that any company would say otherwise if this is a known fact.

Of course, I'm doubly dubious as we have only heard anything about this alleged incident from one party, with no balancing information from any other reputable source.

 

[jon0844]

It's worrying that people are of the opinion that because Northern Rail hasn't said anything official they've basically admitted that it is their fault.

Maybe NR told 'Tony' that they've concluded their investigation and found that nobody had done anything wrong, and that this would be the end of it. They have no more to say on the matter and consider the case closed.

As a face-saving exercise, 'Tony' then opts to say to the world that it's all sorted, they won't or can't comment any more, and he was given a full apology and asked what to do with the guard.

At this point, Tony says 'nothing, the poor guard has suffered enough and I forgive him. I only ever did this for other disabled people who are discriminated against - my job here is done'. Then, he throws in that that they offered compensation, but he turned down.

We all think he's a hero. The End.

Of course, if Tony has exaggerated things, there's still that little problem of what does he mean by his 'goal' and what happens when someone else tries to use the ramps at Guide Bridge and is told, again, that they cannot?

 

[scotsman]

How do we know 'Tony' didn't turn up late for a train that was about to depart?

 

[Lampshade]

I'd love to hire a wheelchair and try this out for myself, but alas, I can't.

On the way to/from Leeds tonight I noticed the Up platform at Guide Bridge is considerably narrower than the Down platform, the running in boards on the platform seeming to be closer than those at Fairfield and Gorton.

What hasn't been established is how indeed 'Tony' proposed to exit Guide Bridge on arrival. I was speaking to a friend earlier who has used the Rose Hill service every day for the last few years and he said he can't recall anyone in a wheelchair ever alighting at Guide Bridge - probably because that platform is not accessible.

 

[jon0844]

Well, technically he's argued that there was no reason not to let him ON the train - not OFF. Maybe NR did agree with that part - so he's not lying!!

 

[Greenback]

There are several strange things about Tonyaryan's latest postings.

What are the 'complications' that he refers to?
Would Northern Rail really ask him if they should sack an employee?
What is his long term goal?
Why is he so insistent in staging a test at Guide Bridge?

A slightly different interpretation is that the complications are the fact that the ramp is considered unsuitable for the sattion, but in principle all trains should be capable of allowing wheelchair passengers on and off there.

Northern did not say that the guard would be sacked, disciplined retrained, or given a medal.

The long term goal is to highlight what he sees as discrimination, even oif the discrimination is not being practiced by an individual, but by an organisation that is actually acting in accordance with the law. It is in fact the law that Tony has a dispute with, and is using filmed situations in order to bring his grievances to a wide audience.

Staging a test would attract even more media interest, thus allowing him to pursue his agenda, which is, as I have outlined above, against the DDA and the fact that older stock.stations have a period of grace before it is compulsory that they are made accessible.

I can't say that my assumptions are 100% correct, they may be hopelessly wrong, but they make as much sense as Tonyaryan's postings.

 

[jimrbrobinson]

I disagree, Mr. Greenback. Your post makes far more sense than Tonyaryan's postings.

 

[90019]

but they make as much sense as Tonyaryan's postings.

I'd say they make much more sense!

 

[Holden]

Tony

Please help members of the forum out '

Can you tell us what was 'the last time' the guard was eluding to on the video,

Specifically ;-


Did the guard you filmed ever supply a ramp to you before or offer you a service?

What happened on a previous encounter with this guard to make him reply under continuing questioning from you 'because the last time' ?

A simple answer is fine Tony , however not answering the question may give forum members the the idea that you are not giving us the whole story .....

 

[Greenback]

Many forum memebrs already think this, because tony has constantly avoided answering these questions.

 

[Geezertronic]

I think he is a very shady character who is using the disabled card for his own vindictive purposes. Many people campaign correctly for disabled rights but his own damning video evidence of his own attitude proves he is nothing more than a troublemaker.

 

[Greenback]

The irony being that he is, in fact, doing a lot of damage to disabled rights in behaving in such a way!

 

[jimrbrobinson]

Spot on Mr. Greenback. That is exactly the opinion of a lot of the people I work with, many of whom are disabled people who are actively working with organisations and local authorities to improve access and provision of facilities and services for all people with disabilites.

 

[Mojo]

What hasn't been established is how indeed 'Tony' proposed to exit Guide Bridge on arrival. I was speaking to a friend earlier who has used the Rose Hill service every day for the last few years and he said he can't recall anyone in a wheelchair ever alighting at Guide Bridge - probably because that platform is not accessible.

Both platforms at Guide Bridge are accessible according to Stations Made Easy: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/GUI/plan.html.

 

[Anvil1984]

I think its already been established that he could have got off at Guide Bridge otherwise they wouldn't propose putting the passenger on the 323 12 minutes later. The whole problem is with the 142s and the two part ramp, some places you cannot use them due to platform width or surface (which it seems Guide Bridge has those issues) as the rampsdue to the angle stretch out a lot more. Also if either part of the ramp is missing due to damage etc then you cant allow passengers to use it as the long bit by itself would act just as a see saw

 

[Flamingo]

Just found this on another forum, if nobody minds me cross-posting (apologies if this is against the rules)

Just to let you all know that the guard is now thankfully back at work. with everything that went on I'm sure this will be taken further and action taken against the passenger and the news who showed the guards face. This was unacceptable in my opinion and the guard received worrying threats, especially on youtube as it seemed an excuse for people to bring out the race card......again!!!

Just to clarify, the guard DID explain to the passenger that the 323 on the Hadfield service 12 minutes later was safer due to the 323 being more wheelchair friendly. The passenger became very rude and demanding to the guard. this was all conveniently BEFORE he started filming.

The wheelchair was well loaded up with bags on the handles and a large box being balanced on top by his wife running behind him. If you listen to the video carefully you hear the guard mention "last time", this is because the child fell off his lap and almost onto the tracks but the guard managed to catch her.

I hope something is done about this and the passenger or the media don't get away with it. Their actions have caused this poor guard and his family a whole load of undue stress.

http://www.northernrailways.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7838&start=75

 

[Lampshade]

It's just as we thought all along then.

 

[Ferret]

Oh dear! I wonder if the OP would care to come on here and explain himself?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I do really feel sorry for the guard in this, suppose though it could happen to anyone with people like Mr Tonyaryan travelling as passengers.

 

[scotsman]

So.
TonyARyan is a liar
The Guard was in the right

Just as we thought?

I reckon we could give Gene Hunt a run for his money!

 

[YorkshireBear]

So.
TonyARyan is a liar
The Guard was in the right

Just as we thought?

I reckon we could give Gene Hunt a run for his money!

was never really in doubt reading his tail fo events but glad its there now.

wish we could drive his car :/

 

[plymothian]

Who exactly is paxman from the northernrailways forums? What is his/her credibility on the case?

 

[jon0844]

I don't know. It could well be someone who has been lurking on the forum for ages and felt like speaking out, or it could be someone new that is stirring up trouble.

However, the things mentioned in that post have been talked about for some time. If it was an all-out attempt to attack 'Tony' then I'd have expected far more stuff to be said as the post is fairly plausible, and supported by the 'last time' bit that is heard on the video. That's always been an unanswered question.

Yes, the comment shouldn't immediately be taken as fact (any more than we should take 'Tony''s story as 100% fact) and when I quoted this on Digital Spy I did add a disclaimer.

Personally, from what I've been told elsewhere, I think that it's pretty accurate - but until an official statement is made somewhere, it will always be disputable.