Where is the North-South divide?

[LSWR Cavalier]

Yorkshire seems to be about halfway up on the map, so Yorkshire and Humberside and Lancashire should be 'The Midlands'.

One of my favourite road signs is where the A62 crosses the A1: exit here for
"The North
The South"

 

[AlterEgo]

Birmingham. Above there is the north, below is the south and Brum itself is in no mans land!

That puts places like Shrewsbury and Cromer in the north though!

Yorkshire seems to be about halfway up on the map, so Yorkshire and Humberside and Lancashire should be 'The Midlands'.

One of my favourite road signs is where the A62 crosses the A1: exit here for
"The North
The South"

Yorkshire is about two thirds of the way up if you remember that Cornwall is a place in England too!

 

[PerryPacer]

The Geordie definition is that the South starts immediately south of Sunderland!

 

[DarloRich]

The Geordie definition is that the South starts immediately south of Sunderland!

Sunderland? Pah, it starts at Gateshead!

 

[Kilopylae]

Birmingham. Above there is the north, below is the south and Brum itself is in no mans land!

This is a reasonable take - but the rest of the West Midlands (Sutton Coldfield, Dudley, Sandwell, Wolverhampton, etc) is in the North rather than no-man's land

 

[DarloRich]

This is a reasonable take - but the rest of the West Midlands (Sutton Coldfield, Dudley, Sandwell, Wolverhampton, etc) is in the North rather than no-man's land

Sorry but those places are not in the north. Not by a long way.

Oh and the Midlands don't exist. Only north and south. Anyone in the "midlands" is, in fact, southern.

 

[Kilopylae]

Cornwall is a place in England

You'd meet some opposition if you tried telling that to certain Cornishmen

 

[SargeNpton]

Watford Gap, not Watford itself.

Nope, Watford.

The phrase pre-dates the building of the M1. I think it was when Watford was the northern extent of the Bakerloo Line. However, in the last couple of decades people have tended to quote Watford Gap instead of Watford.

 

[hst43102]

If you include the West Mids (excluding Birmingham) and Corby in the "north", surely the definition is quite clear?

North = rather grim industrial places, hills and sheep
South = absolutely everything else

 

[185143]

If you include the West Mids (excluding Birmingham) and Corby in the "north", surely the definition is quite clear?

North = rather grim industrial places, hills and sheep
South = absolutely everything else

So Solihull is up North yet Birmingham is down South? I get what you're implying, but just a slight Geographical flaw with your theory...

 

[DarloRich]

If you include the West Mids (excluding Birmingham) and Corby in the "north", surely the definition is quite clear?

North = rather grim industrial places, hills and sheep
South = absolutely everything else

These places may " feel" northern if you are southern but, until I am blue in the face, these places are not northern. They are in the south. I wish the north east was a run down and as struggling as Corby!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

North = rather grim industrial places, hills and sheep
South = absolutely everything else

That part of the definition effectively makes the majority of the folk from Herefordshire, Devon, Somerset, Dorset, Hampshire and Sussex and a few other adjacent counties as honorary Northerners!

And areas with rather grim industrial places certainly doesn't exclude the South!

 

[185143]

That part of the definition effectively makes the majority of the folk from Herefordshire, Devon, Somerset, Dorset, Hampshire and Sussex and a few other adjacent counties as honorary Northerners!

And for that matter, most of Wales and Scotland!

 

[hst43102]

Sorry for setting off a bomb with that very tongue-in-cheek comment!

Corby is a strange exception - certainly feels northern but also partly Scottish due to all the steel workers from Clydeside.
Also worth noting that my phrase "grim industrial places" should probably include much of Thameside and even parts of the south coast.

I think my proper definition of Northern would be a line from Chester - Stoke - Chesterfield - the Wash, and the south being Hereford - Leamington - Northampton - Cambridge - the Wash. Obviously there is a lot of overlap between the Midlands and both of those.

 

[DarloRich]

Sorry for setting off a bomb with that very tongue-in-cheek comment!

Corby is a strange exception - certainly feels northern but also partly Scottish due to all the steel workers from Clydeside.
Also worth noting that my phrase "grim industrial places" should probably include much of Thameside and even parts of the south coast.

I think my proper definition of Northern would be a line from Chester - Stoke - Chesterfield - the Wash, and the south being Hereford - Leamington - Northampton - Cambridge - the Wash. Obviously there is a lot of overlap between the Midlands and both of those.

Not one of those places listed is in the north. I am getting bored of saying this............................

I would take north of Doncaster/Sheffield as a starting point with the real north being the area between the Tees and the Tweed.

PS my view is the correct one. I am northern. I decide where the north starts. Only the north east is the true north.

 

[AlterEgo]

You'd meet some opposition if you tried telling that to certain Cornishmen

Everyone is entitled to be wrong.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

PS my view is the correct one. I am northern. I decide where the north starts. Only the north east is the true north.

Nah. Agree to disagree on that.

The North East outpost of England (beyond Scotch Corner) is self-evidently the "Far North".

 

[Gloster]

Watford Gap, not Watford itself.

No, Watford is correct. It is (or was) the end of the tube.

 

[hst43102]

Only the north east is the true north.

Cumbrians would probably disagree!

 

[DarloRich]

Cumbrians would probably disagree!

They would disagree today was Tuesday!

 

[Dr Hoo]

Corby is a strange exception - certainly feels northern but also partly Scottish due to all the steel workers from Clydeside.
Also worth noting that my phrase "grim industrial places" should probably include much of Thameside and even parts of the south coast.

Having been closely associated with Corby over the past 25 years, it has almost entirely lost its one-time northern feel. Whereas 25 years ago Scottish accents were quite common they have progressively died out. There are still odd blasts from the past. Support for the Scottish football team in The Grampian pub recently being a topical example. And the smell of blast furnace slag still comes out of the ground in some parts of the town when it rains.

But with the population growing at around 1,000 per year, mainly incomers to the vast new housing estates, and practical obliteration and remediation of many odd the old ironstone quarries it just doesn't feel the same.

(I am well aware that many towns further north would love to see the same kind of recovery and regeneration.)

 

[PeterY]

Watford Gap, not Watford itself.

I live in the south. The north starts at Watford gap on the M1

 

[birchesgreen]

I always feel when you head down the Chiltern Main Line and go through that tunnel between Leamington and Banbury you are entering "The South".

 

[py_megapixel]

The phrase pre-dates the building of the M1.

As does the area known as Watford Gap, and indeed its use on long-distance journeys! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watford_Gap#Stagecoach_route

 

[Bald Rick]

Watford Gap, not Watford itself.

The Watford Gap is at Watford. (Watford, Northants).

I might have answered this in the previous thread on the subject, but I tested this on a few people and managed to produce a clear dividing line. This runs from the Welsh border at Threapwood near Malpas, to North Somercotes. Everywhere north of the line is north, everywhere south is south.

 

[eastdyke]

Definitely Wisbech. Where else can you stand on North Brink and look at the South Brink on the other side of a River (in this case the Nene)?

 

[Bevan Price]

No easy answers, and there needs to be more than just "North" or "South".
I would regard North England as roughly everywhere North of a line from the Mersey/Dee to the Humber, i.e. Liverpool / Chester to Hull, up to the Scottish Border. Parts of Cheshire & Derbyshire would also be included.
Midlands would then be everything down to (roughly) a line from Hereford to Rugby & Peterborough.
South would be everything further south, although there could be some sub-divisions:
"London Commuterland": roughly bounded by Northampton - Bedford - Cambridge - Colchester - Southend - Maidstone - Brighton - Basingstoke - Oxford.
"South West" - everywhere west & south of Southampton to Swindon & Bristol.
"East Anglia" - Cambs., Norfolk, Suffolk & most of Essex.

 

[hst43102]

The Watford Gap is at Watford. (Watford, Northants).

I might have answered this in the previous thread on the subject, but I tested this on a few people and managed to produce a clear dividing line. This runs from the Welsh border at Threapwood near Malpas, to North Somercotes. Everywhere north of the line is north, everywhere south is south.

Definitely the most precise measurement so far on this thread, but I have a few issues with it :

- Stoke on Trent is in the south
- Chesterfield can't make its mind up
- Mansfield, Bolsover, Shirebrook - the Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire coal towns are in the south, whereas historically they are linked much more to South Yorks

I think, rather than a straight line (blue), my amended version of this would look something like the red line here:

 

[317 forever]

Sheffield is the start of the North. Proper North is north of York.

This means we could have a long journey from Sheffield to Berwick-upon-Tweed on Cross Country and be in north England throughout.

 

[nlogax]

The Watford Gap is at Watford. (Watford, Northants).

I might have answered this in the previous thread on the subject, but I tested this on a few people and managed to produce a clear dividing line. This runs from the Welsh border at Threapwood near Malpas, to North Somercotes. Everywhere north of the line is north, everywhere south is south.

To me that seems the closest to reality, but I think the only thing this thread has proven is that everyone's has a different perspective of where these 'regions' start Trying to neatly divide the country with straight lines is always going to be difficult when county borders and population distribution are what they are.

Anyone that considered Watford (the Herts one) to be where the South stopped must have suffered from proper geographical myopia..