WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[newtownmgr]

No, in a bit of a curveball, six 2-car class 196s are going to be operating the initial EWR services between Oxford and Milton Keynes when the line opens in 2025. WMR will supposedly have sufficient capacity in its fleet, due to a combination of reduced demand following coronavirus, and the fact the the class 196 fleet is larger than the class 170 fleet it's replacing.

I'm sure someone who's involved with the project will come along shortly and explain it properly!

Is this confirmed or speculation. Given that the Camp Hill stations will open in the next year or two with the necessary service alterations & potential increased requirement for units i can’t see there being spare 196’s. As regards passenger demand, passenger levels are already increasing slowly but surely. If & i mean if the Chiltern 172/1’s stay there might be enough units but honestly can’t see there being spare capacity. Need to remember today’s announcement will also have a massive bearing on what happens after 2023.

 

[ABB125]

Is this confirmed or speculation. Given that the Camp Hill stations will open in the next year or two with the necessary service alterations & potential increased requirement for units i can’t see there being spare 196’s. As regards passenger demand, passenger levels are already increasing slowly but surely. If & i mean if the Chiltern 172/1’s stay there might be enough units but honestly can’t see there being spare capacity. Need to remember today’s announcement will also have a massive bearing on what happens after 2023.

I'm just a messenger, so I don't know!

However, I will say that it was very strongly hinted to me (by someone "in the know", in a "wink wink, nudge nudge" kind of way) that class 196s would be operating EWR.

 

[newtownmgr]

I'm just a messenger, so I don't know!

However, I will say that it was very strongly hinted to me (in a "wink wink, nudge nudge" kind of way, that class 196s would be operating EWR.

Well i guess we will have to wait & see.

 

[Fidelis]

On the Modern Railways website homepage you can see the top half of the June issue, with a headline that says "West Midlands 196s bound for East West Rail". Is this for testing or something?

The article on page 11 of Modern Railways June issue mentions that future demand on WMR post Covid is uncertain so six 196s might be used for the Oxford-Milton Keynes service when it opens in 2025 as an interim measure. However at a conference yesterday the forecasts for demand reaching it old level were between 18 months to 5 years. So by 2025 WMR may well need these units especially if the proposed second New Street -Hereford service using the Camphill Line from the mid 2020s is put in place.

 

[Class172]

Is this confirmed or speculation. Given that the Camp Hill stations will open in the next year or two with the necessary service alterations & potential increased requirement for units i can’t see there being spare 196’s. As regards passenger demand, passenger levels are already increasing slowly but surely. If & i mean if the Chiltern 172/1’s stay there might be enough units but honestly can’t see there being spare capacity. Need to remember today’s announcement will also have a massive bearing on what happens after 2023.

I agree it would seem a bit premature to start re-allocating units given that WMR have plans to expand their diesel services. If such a move does go ahead, I can only assume that being such a small operational microfleet they would continue to be maintained at Tyseley, with ECS moves down to Oxford/Bletchley perhaps.

 

[TRAX]

Is East West Rail going to be a WMR operation ?

 

[railphotoghw]

Is East West Rail going to be a WMR operation ?

No. East West Rail is not in the West Mids.

 

[Chiltern006]

can see the route just being absorbed into XC personally

queue all ways thats unreasonable

 

[swt_passenger]

Is East West Rail going to be a WMR operation ?

Never confirmed yet, but I’m pretty sure the last DfT great idea was for a separate micro-franchise.

 

[ABB125]

Never confirmed yet, but I’m pretty sure the last DfT great idea was for a separate micro-franchise.

Which is possibly a great test-bed for the new concession-style railway structure

 

[fgwrich]

Never confirmed yet, but I’m pretty sure the last DfT great idea was for a separate micro-franchise.

Indeed - wasn’t it being set up as a private micro-franchise to both build the line and run their own trains along it... ironically a bit of a mini BR?

 

[swt_passenger]

Indeed - wasn’t it being set up as a private micro-franchise to both build the line and run their own trains along it... ironically a bit of a mini BR?

Yes, but I suspect it won’t turn out that way at all now, it’ll have to fit in with the same pattern as other operators I think.

 

[DavidGrain]

Unless every thing changes with the TOCs over the next few years. It seems to me that Bletchley to Oxford there is a choice between LNR operating it with borrowed WMR 3 car 196s or Chiltern operating it with whatever DMUs they have. Unless the Aylesbury to Bletchley is scrapped it would seem that logically it should be Chiltern as they are the sole TOC operating out of Aylesbury.

However if I understand that in futre GBR will licence the services, any operator with enough trains can put in a bid.

 

[TRAX]

Thanks for the answers. If this does go ahead, how can WMR let go of some of their new 196s that easily ? Obviously they need them...

 

[Class172]

Unless every thing changes with the TOCs over the next few years. It seems to me that Bletchley to Oxford there is a choice between LNR operating it with borrowed WMR 3 car 196s or Chiltern operating it with whatever DMUs they have. Unless the Aylesbury to Bletchley is scrapped it would seem that logically it should be Chiltern as they are the sole TOC operating out of Aylesbury.

However if I understand that in futre GBR will licence the services, any operator with enough trains can put in a bid.

Just to note that the WMR 196s are either 2 or 4 carriages long.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just to note that the WMR 196s are either 2 or 4 carriages long.

I think the suggestion is that 2 will be enough for Oxford-MK when it's just that. I'm not so sure, I think they may prove to regret that decision.

 

[Rhydgaled]

If you're going to do something as silly as open East West Rail without electrifying Oxford-Bletchley first then class 196s (if WMT can spare them or EMR can spare the Turbostars to let WMT keep them) seem as good a choice as any, and Bedford-Bletchley is already operated by the TOC who ordered the 196s (although the 230s are part of the LNWR brand rather than West Mids aren't they?).

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think the suggestion is that 2 will be enough for Oxford-MK when it's just that. I'm not so sure, I think they may prove to regret that decision.

4 in the peaks as peaks will have returned by then. Plus some weekend services depending on sports fixtures.

 

[newtownmgr]

4 in the peaks as peaks will have returned by then. Plus some weekend services depending on sports fixtures.

And if peaks have returned by then, it would again suggest that WMR won’t have the spare capacity to release the units.

 

[Devonman2014]

Are 196’s still in store at Donnington or have they all been moved to Tyseley ?

 

[The_Train]

Are 196’s still in store at Donnington or have they all been moved to Tyseley ?

I've heard nothing to the contrary so believe 7 units still to be sat at Donnington

 

[newtownmgr]

All still at Donnington. None will move to Tyseley until they can move some units down to Worcester.

 

[Devonman2014]

All still at Donnington. None will move to Tyseley until they can move some units down to Worcester.

Which seven are on site as I’m interested in going to see them , are they visible from a public place ?

 

[Class172]

Which seven are on site as I’m interested in going to see them , are they visible from a public place ?

Five of them are visible in a picture in the June edition of Modern Railways: the caption lists them as 196006-9 and 196108. Don’t know about the others.

 

[Covshire1]

Five of them are visible in a picture in the June edition of Modern Railways: the caption lists them as 196006-9 and 196108. Don’t know another the others.

Two cars of 196111 are also present. 196001 was there but reportedly has left this week via road.

 

[Devonman2014]

Two cars of 196111 are also present. 196001 was there but reportedly has left this week via road.

as of this morning 196108, 196001, 196006 to 008 and 2 cars of 112 on site.

 

[The_Train]

I assume you mean 111 with regards to the 2 cars?
I also have 196009 as being there having arrived in March - could anyone confirm the whereabouts of this please?

 

[Devonman2014]

I assume you mean 111 with regards to the 2 cars?
I also have 196009 as being there having arrived in March - could anyone confirm the whereabouts of this please?

Hi

the listed above were the only ones identifiable - and was definitely 2 vehicles of 112 right at the front by the gate onto the site.

 

[The_Train]

Hi

the listed above were the only ones identifiable - and was definitely 2 vehicles of 112 right at the front by the gate onto the site.

Thanks for your response and fair enough, I will assume 009 is hiding.
I'll have to do more digging on the 111/112 thing as I have 111 as being there (and seen previous comments about only 2 cars of that being there) but I've not noted 112 as having arrived. Hard to keep up

 

[01d-and]

Both cars of 196 011 noted heading north through Worcestershire [on lorries on the M5 ] lunchtime today.