WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[Roger B]

Does anyone have a list of which units have entered service - and are there other units that are available for service, but not actually been used in service yet?
Many thanks

 

[william.martin]

I think West Midlands Railway have done a very good job with these trains. I look forward to seeing them myself and the 730s once ready and in service.

Will the four car sets see more use over the two car sets?

The 4 car sets shall more commonly be seen on the snow hill lines and east west rail route, though they shall still be in service alongside double 2 car 196's on the Birmingham to Shrewsbury line.To begin with, only 4car 196's shall be used on the Birmingham New Street to Shrewsbury route. After that, the majority of the 4 car 196's shall move to either the east west rail route, the snow hill lines or the Birmingham New Street to Hereford lines, leaving the 2 car 196's in charge of the Birmingham New Street to Shrewsbury line.

My money is some of the spare units eventually being utilised on Snow Hills, although isn't some of the 196s rumoured to be leaving WMR "temporarily" when EWR opens from Oxford to Bedford?

Or has that been knocked on the he

The 4 car sets shall more commonly be seen on the snow hill lines and east west rail route, though they shall still be in service alongside double 2 car 196's on the Birmingham to Shrewsbury line.To begin with, only 4car 196's shall be used on the Birmingham New Street to Shrewsbury route. After that, the majority of the 4 car 196's shall move to either the east west rail route, the snow hill lines or the Birmingham New Street to Hereford lines, leaving the 2 car 196's in charge of the Birmingham New Street to Shrewsbury line.

196101 allocated today to 1G05, 2J06 and then 1G14

Hi, do you know what the 196 diagrams are for Wednesday and Thursday next week?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Does anyone have a list of which units have entered service - and are there other units that are available for service, but not actually been used in service yet?
Many thanks

The only set that's been in service thus far is 196101, not sure what is allocated to the diagram today.

 

[Covshire1]

The only set that's been in service thus far is 196101, not sure what is allocated to the diagram today

101 again today...

 

[SuperLuke2334]

101 again today...

Ah great. Then yes it is only 101 that has been in service this far. More soon to come I expect.

 

[newtownmgr]

My money is some of the spare units eventually being utilised on Snow Hills, although isn't some of the 196s rumoured to be leaving WMR "temporarily" when EWR opens from Oxford to Bedford?

Or has that been knocked on the head?

As mentioned before, enough 172’s to cover the snow hill lines. Any 196 use would be very limited as only Worcester will sign them on the snow hill route & we only do about 30/40 percent of the work over the route.

When the camp hill line stations reopen there will be more work for the 196’s.

As regards EWR, not heard anything for a while.

 

[AJDesiro]

As mentioned before, enough 172’s to cover the snow hill lines. Any 196 use would be very limited as only Worcester will sign them on the snow hill route & we only do about 30/40 percent of the work over the route.

When the camp hill line stations reopen there will be more work for the 196’s.

As regards EWR, not heard anything for a while.

Adding on to this, when I spoke to an executive on the first day of operation, they said that they’d be running the NUCKLE services as well, as opposed to the snow hill. They said that it wasn’t feasible to run the snow hill with them in case that they break down, it could take a while to get a rescue unit.

 

[Birmingham]

What is the purpose of the two-car sets given surely no Birmingham-Shrewsbury/Hereford services should be formed of only two carriages?

 

[newtownmgr]

Adding on to this, when I spoke to an executive on the first day of operation, they said that they’d be running the NUCKLE services as well, as opposed to the snow hill. They said that it wasn’t feasible to run the snow hill with them in case that they break down, it could take a while to get a rescue unit.

Not heard that but would be surprised as it would cause similar problems if one was to fail.

What is the purpose of the two-car sets given surely no Birmingham-Shrewsbury/Hereford services should be formed of only two carriages?

Will run as 4 cars I’m guessing. Doubt we will see 6 car formations.

 

[Sam 76]

We need the 196's in service ASAP as when I was on a WMR 170 the other day the interior smelt rank(it is the old London midland one.) I am new to the railway forum so I don't know if I am posting this in the right place, if any of you guys do know, roughly when shall we be seeing the 196's enter service ?

They entered service on Monday on a limited number of peak morning services between Shrewsbury and Birmingham. I believe it’s a phased role out for that line between now and the end of the year

 

[43102EMR]

My money is some of the spare units eventually being utilised on Snow Hills, although isn't some of the 196s rumoured to be leaving WMR "temporarily" when EWR opens from Oxford to Bedford?

Or has that been knocked on the head?

WMR management claim the 196s aren’t going to EWR - the plan is for them to be used on Birmingham - Shrewsbury/Hereford, Leamington Spa - Nuneaton and the Camp Hill Line (once restoration is complete).

 

[Energy]

Adding on to this, when I spoke to an executive on the first day of operation, they said that they’d be running the NUCKLE services as well, as opposed to the snow hill. They said that it wasn’t feasible to run the snow hill with them in case that they break down, it could take a while to get a rescue unit.

Presumably the NUCKLE services free up 2 172s so the 196s aren't needed on Snow Hill. Bit of a suprise though.

 

[anamyd]

Will run as 4 cars I’m guessing. Doubt we will see 6 car formations.

I think Birmingham meant "if the 2-car units are just going to be doubled up anyway, what's the point of them being a thing?"

 

[Mollman]

Will run as 4 cars I’m guessing. Doubt we will see 6 car formations.

Pre-Covid one of the Hereford peak workings was 5 cars I seem to recall, so when the 196s were ordered I expect there was an intention to have 4+2 in the peak.

 

[william.martin]

Does anyone have a list of which units have entered service - and are there other units that are available for service, but not actually been used in service yet?
Many thanks

Running for the past 3 days, there has only been 196101 I believe, however 196104 has been used for staff training. There are no 196/0 running at the moment, not sure when we shall see them enter service.

What is the purpose of the two-car sets given surely no Birmingham-Shrewsbury/Hereford services should be formed of only two carriages?

It is unlikely they shall be used in 6 cat formations other than in ECS moves in the morning and evening, this is because the recently lengthened platforms at Bilbrook, and my second to local oakengates can still only accommodate 5 carriages.

 

[boxerdog]

Not heard that but would be surprised as it would cause similar problems if one was to fail.


Will run as 4 cars I’m guessing. Doubt we will see 6 car formations.

196s are scheduled to go onto the Leamington - Nuneaton service. This ISN'T imminent though.

 

[43102EMR]

Pre-Covid one of the Hereford peak workings was 5 cars I seem to recall, so when the 196s were ordered I expect there was an intention to have 4+2 in the peak.

Most services during covid were 5 cars, that is until the 170/6s surrendered their centre carriages to CrossCountry to lengthen their /5s.

 

[Roger B]

The only set that's been in service thus far is 196101, not sure what is allocated to the diagram today.

Thanks Luke - much appreciated

 

[warwickshire]

196s are scheduled to go onto the Leamington - Nuneaton service. This ISN'T imminent though.

That is correct. My local reliable sources and some Wmr sources tell me Timetable change December 2023.
It will be x2 196 2 cars. With Leamington Spa crew only signing them. Coventry after this date will no longer sign 172 or the Knuckle. It will transfer to Leamington. However Coventry then will do 350s and 730s Lnwr only and Lnwr mainline work instead. With its other electric 350 323 Wmr duties going to Birmingham New Street.
However back on topic December 2023 for 196 Knuckle. Its Still possible a 4 car 196 could go Worcester to Dorridge intime with a Worcester crew to save a cancellation from April May 2023.
However saying that it's a case of the never say never. But does carry a risk if one fails. Nearest One ie 196 or crew to assist will be at Worcester even then if available. So it's a large risk for Wmr to take if one does show.

 

[william.martin]

Most services during covid were 5 cars, that is until the 170/6s surrendered their centre carriages to CrossCountry to lengthen th

That is correct. My local reliable sources and some Wmr sources tell me Timetable change December 2023.
It will be x2 196 2 cars. With Leamington Spa Crewe only signing them. Coventry after this date will no longer sign 172 or the Knuckle. It will transfer to Leamington. However Coventry then will do 350s and 730s Lnwr only and Lnwr mainline work instead. With its other electric 350 323 Wmr duties going to Birmingham New Street.
However back on topic December 2023 for 196 Knuckle. Its Still possible a 4 car 196 could go Worcester to Dorridge intime with a Worcester Crewe to save a cancellation from April May 2023.
However saying that it's a case of the never say never. But does carry a risk if one fails. Nearest One ie 196 or Crewe to assist will be at Worcester even then if available. So it's a large risk for Wmr to take if one does show.

That's right

 

[Class172]

I think Birmingham meant "if the 2-car units are just going to be doubled up anyway, what's the point of them being a thing?"

2 carriage services will probably be suitable for the half-hourly Camp Hill services when they are introduced.

 

[boxerdog]

That is correct. My local reliable sources and some Wmr sources tell me Timetable change December 2023.
It will be x2 196 2 cars. With Leamington Spa Crewe only signing them. Coventry after this date will no longer sign 172 or the Knuckle. It will transfer to Leamington. However Coventry then will do 350s and 730s Lnwr only and Lnwr mainline work instead. With its other electric 350 323 Wmr duties going to Birmingham New Street.
However back on topic December 2023 for 196 Knuckle. Its Still possible a 4 car 196 could go Worcester to Dorridge intime with a Worcester Crewe to save a cancellation from April May 2023.
However saying that it's a case of the never say never. But does carry a risk if one fails. Nearest One ie 196 or Crewe to assist will be at Worcester even then if available. So it's a large risk for Wmr to take if one does show.

I don't believe that Coventry train crew work will be as you've described, but most likely concentrated on WMR routes. Birmingham New Street signs all Coventry work except for Leamington - Nuneaton and Coventry Yard/s. My understanding is that Coventry depot will sign the class 196 and the Leamington - Nuneaton route (previously there was talk of Coventry depot signing to Tyseley via Dorridge for ECS moves). I'm pretty sure the long term aim is Stratford - Leamington - Coventry - (Nuneaton) - Leicester service.

 

[Energy]

I'm pretty sure the long term aim is Stratford - Leamington - Coventry - (Nuneaton) - Leicester service.

There used to be a Coventry to Leicester service in the early 2000s until NR changed the track layout. Stratford to Leamington to Coventry would require a reverse at Leamington.

 

[warwickshire]

I don't believe that Coventry train crew work will be as you've described, but most likely concentrated on WMR routes. Birmingham New Street signs all Coventry work except for Leamington - Nuneaton and Coventry Yard/s. My understanding is that Coventry depot will sign the class 196 and the Leamington - Nuneaton route (previously there was talk of Coventry depot signing to Tyseley via Dorridge for ECS moves). I'm pretty sure the long term aim is Stratford - Leamington - Coventry - (Nuneaton) - Leicester service.

Anything can change as we know. Its just a few WMR staff who I know have informed me locally about this i.e. Leamington Spa based. My home town. However as we know things can change. However keeping it brief there does appear timerable change wise anyway to be a big change for December 2023 anyway. However Coventry is a LNWR depot. Leamington is a West Midlands depot. Wait and see .

 

[Fidelis]

Pre-Covid one of the Hereford peak workings was 5 cars I seem to recall, so when the 196s were ordered I expect there was an intention to have 4+2 in the peak.

Yes, as currently the services in school/college morning and afternoon peak to and from Hereford is formed of five cars with the HFD departure at 15.39 full until Barnt Green having picked up more passengers at WOF.
Should be no problem with platforms as six car 196s are shorter than the GWR 5 car IETs used on the PAD -HFD services.

 

[Sprinter107]

Yes, as currently the services in school/college morning and afternoon peak to and from Hereford is formed of five cars with the HFD departure at 15.39 full until Barnt Green having picked up more passengers at WOF.
Should be no problem with platforms as six car 196s are shorter than the GWR 5 car IETs used on the PAD -HFD services.

There are currently no diagrammed 5 car trains on Birmingham to Hereford services.

 

[boxerdog]

There used to be a Coventry to Leicester service in the early 2000s until NR changed the track layout. Stratford to Leamington to Coventry would require a reverse at Leamington.

It's only like changing ends at Leamington as currently happens. No issues with that, Nuneaton is the more problematic location due to lack of pointwork on the WCML or the service would have to have the reinstatement of the under bridge south of Nuneaton on the WCML.

I would suggest this service will replace the Chiltern service between Stratford and Leamington, this will then create a cross Warwickshire service, for which I guess the class 196 are possibly more sorted to than the class 172.

 

[Techniquest]

There are currently no diagrammed 5 car trains on Birmingham to Hereford services.

Indeed! 4 car trains if you're lucky, 2 car trains are not unheard of though, and those are rather unpleasant!

I can't honestly see 5 car trains returning to the Hereford route under any circumstance, never mind any potential for a 196/0+196/1 in years to come. Once upon a time, yes but those times are gone.

 

[Energy]

It's only like changing ends at Leamington as currently happens. No issues with that

Currently the train spends 10 mins at Leamington, plenty to change ends. Changing ends in the middle of a service isn't impossible (especially if diagrammed with a longer wait at that station) but is inconvenient.

Nuneaton is the more problematic location due to lack of pointwork on the WCML or the service would have to have the reinstatement of the under bridge south of Nuneaton on the WCML.

An under bridge is planned at Nuneaton.

I would suggest this service will replace the Chiltern service between Stratford and Leamington

That would make sense, the service doesn't really fit with Chiltern and should really be moved across to WMR.

this will then create a cross Warwickshire service, for which I guess the class 196 are possibly more sorted to than the class 172.

WMR will want the 172s focussed on Snow Hill lines (and the eventual 6tph Snow Hill core) so 196s only would be better on this service than a 172/196 mix on Snow Hill.

196s are already going to run on Leamington to Nuneaton at some point.

I can't honestly see 5 car trains returning to the Hereford route under any circumstance, never mind any potential for a 196/0+196/1 in years to come. Once upon a time, yes but those times are gone.

The 170s have ~50-80 seats per car so a 4 car 196 is roughly equivalent to a 5 car 170, though with much less standing space.

 

[Fidelis]

Indeed! 4 car trains if you're lucky, 2 car trains are not unheard of though, and those are rather unpleasant!

I can't honestly see 5 car trains returning to the Hereford route under any circumstance, never mind any potential for a 196/0+196/1 in years to come. Once upon a time, yes but those times are gone.

So you are suggesting that my colleagues and I who catch the 16.24 at WOF cannot count?