Xplore Dundee

[baza585]

Interesting there has been no Stock Exchange announcement of the sale. I would have expected one unless the amount paid was small.

 

[kez19]

The National Express West Midlands and National Express Coventry websites have had an upgrade as well.

National Express West Midlands - Posts | Facebook

Different partnerships?

Xplore Dundee drivers can look forward to a full scale attack on their T&Cs when this mob get their claws into them.

What is the difference in drivers terms and conditions?

Is every bus company different?

 

[Strathclyder]

If I am honest I was aware of rumours going about 5 years ago (word of mouth), I had thought of at least 3 companies I would think would take over

My suggestions at time:
First (operations in Scotland)
Stagecoach (same as First)
Go Ahead (reason for Go Ahead was just using their services in Newcastle and pretty much their fleet seem more updated)

Seeing old photos of Glasgow it’s strange to see Arriva operated for a while to then be sold (operations) to McGills - I remember vaguely seeing Arriva buses in Glasgow and did wonder where they went... and that’s the answer.

Guess what I meant was that I wasn't really surprised that Nat X has sold their Dundee ops (am surprised it hasn't happened before now), it was that McGill's being the one it was being offloaded to that surprised me.

As for the others you list: First aren't looking to expand their Scottish bus operations, Stagecoach (East Scotland being the relevent division here) buying Xplore would likely raise the Competition Commission's hackles (I know things are run differently in this regard north of the border, but still) and Go-Ahead would face the same problem as Nat X do now if they took over: a small operation seperated by some considerable distance from their other bus operations; Arriva had a similar problem with their Scotland West division before selling out to McGill's in 2012 (wasn't ASW basically run as a satellite operation of Arriva North East by the end?).

 

[Jordan Adam]

Guess what I meant was that I wasn't really surprised that Nat X has sold their Dundee ops (am surprised it hasn't happened before now), it was that McGill's being the one it was being offloaded to that surprised me.

As for the others you list: First aren't looking to expand their Scottish bus operations, Stagecoach (East Scotland being the relevent division here) buying Xplore would likely raise the Competition Commission's hackles (I know things are run differently in this regard north of the border, but still) and Go-Ahead would face the same problem as Nat X do now if they took over: a small operation seperated by some considerable distance from their other bus operations; Arriva had a similar problem with their Scotland West division before selling out to McGill's in 2012 (wasn't ASW basically run as a satellite operation of Arriva North East by the end?).

Prior to the sale of Xplore Dundee being announced West Coast Motors would've been my first thought followed by McGill's. I think part of the issue with Xplore Dundee isn't really just it's location but also the fact it's quite a small operation. I doubt Stagecoach would want to expand either, they'd maybe take on a route or two, but not a whole network. Strangely First taking over would seem more likely as it could have been beneficial long term if they wanted to grow. The trend at Stagecoach in the last 5 or so years up here has been more of scaling back and cost cutting rather than looking for growth. I wouldn't be shocked if by the end of this decade the whole Highlands opco is sold.

Hopefully McGill's can make a success of this, it does open them lots of opportunities for expansion in the future, especially if they plan to reinstate the X90 to Edinburgh Airport once demand starts to pick up again.

 

[Robertj21a]

Prior to the sale of Xplore Dundee being announced West Coast Motors would've been my first thought followed by McGill's. I think part of the issue with Xplore Dundee isn't really just it's location but also the fact it's quite a small operation. I doubt Stagecoach would want to expand either, they'd maybe take on a route or two, but not a whole network. Strangely First taking over would seem more likely as it could have been beneficial long term if they wanted to grow. The trend at Stagecoach in the last 5 or so years up here has been more of scaling back and cost cutting rather than looking for growth. I wouldn't be shocked if by the end of this decade the whole Highlands opco is sold.

Hopefully McGill's can make a success of this, it does open them lots of opportunities for expansion in the future, especially if they plan to reinstate the X90 to Edinburgh Airport once demand starts to pick up again.

Has there been any real evidence of First wanting to grow their bus operations anywhere in the UK? - I thought they were still in survival mode.

 

[Bristol LHS]

Go-Ahead would face the same problem as Nat X do now if they took over: a small operation seperated by some considerable distance from their other bus operations; Arriva had a similar problem with their Scotland West division before selling out to McGill's in 2012 (wasn't ASW basically run as a satellite operation of Arriva North East by the end?).

I think part of the problem for Arriva, Nat X and Go-Ahead is that in addition to the geographical distance, a sub-scale Scottish operation absorbs more resources than an equivalent in England would because of the additional complication of operating in a different regulatory environment. All of a sudden you’re exposed to a completely different political environment, to Transport Scotland, to Covid Support Grant (Restart) as well as DfT, Bus Services Support Grant etc. That might be worth a punt if you see scope for lots of growth (as Go Ahead have done in Dublin or Singapore, or even in Greater Manchester), but for a one-city operation hemmed in by Stagecoach, it’s probably more trouble than its worth...

 

[cnjb8]

Prior to the sale of Xplore Dundee being announced West Coast Motors would've been my first thought followed by McGill's. I think part of the issue with Xplore Dundee isn't really just it's location but also the fact it's quite a small operation. I doubt Stagecoach would want to expand either, they'd maybe take on a route or two, but not a whole network. Strangely First taking over would seem more likely as it could have been beneficial long term if they wanted to grow. The trend at Stagecoach in the last 5 or so years up here has been more of scaling back and cost cutting rather than looking for growth. I wouldn't be shocked if by the end of this decade the whole Highlands opco is sold.

Hopefully McGill's can make a success of this, it does open them lots of opportunities for expansion in the future, especially if they plan to reinstate the X90 to Edinburgh Airport once demand starts to pick up again.

Has there been any real evidence of First wanting to grow their bus operations anywhere in the UK? - I thought they were still in survival mode.

There is and was a very slim chance of First expanding. They've sold Plymouth, Barnstaple, Redditch, Chester, Birkenhead, London, East Lothian, Northampton, Manchester and Bolton amongst others. Meanwhile Stagecoach were expanding by purchasing five of the sold First operations I mention above and purchasing DE and South Gloucestershire. Obviously with Covid, Stagecoach won't and wouldn't be buying now anyway (which makes the McGills purchase so surprising) but I highly doubt that First would have bought Xplore because of their disposal of operations and the same with Stagecoach due to competition rules as mentioned above.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Has there been any real evidence of First wanting to grow their bus operations anywhere in the UK? - I thought they were still in survival mode.

There is and was a very slim chance of First expanding. They've sold Plymouth, Barnstaple, Redditch, Chester, Birkenhead, London, East Lothian, Northampton, Manchester and Bolton amongst others. Meanwhile Stagecoach were expanding by purchasing five of the sold First operations I mention above and purchasing DE and South Gloucestershire. Obviously with Covid, Stagecoach won't and wouldn't be buying now anyway (which makes the McGills purchase so surprising) but I highly doubt that First would have bought Xplore because of their disposal of operations and the same with Stagecoach due to competition rules as mentioned above.

For clarity... My point was that First buying Xplore would've been more likely than Stagecoach. Not that First were considering or even likely to buy it.

Although i somewhat disagree with your argument as i don't think you can always use past experience to dictate the future, especially when some of the examples are over 5 years ago. In the last few years there's been a clear change in motive at First. Certainly more recently within Scotland First have been looking to expand. First Scotland East now covers a larger area, plus they entered the tour bus market in Edinburgh with an Aberdeen Tour due for launch next season. Stagecoach on the other hand sold off their Fort William operations and have been cutting back services / cost saving year on year at their Scottish Opcos you just need to compare the 2009 Bluebird/Highland networks with no to see the sheer extent to cutbacks over the last decade.

Back on topic! I do think West Coast Motors and McGill's were most likely to buy Xplore Dundee as they seem to be the most looking to expand within Scotland, and despite what some ex-employees rant about online both do seem generally well run, WCM especially.

 

[Stan Drews]

...and despite what some ex-employees rant about online both do seem generally well run, WCM especially.

I‘m always amused by the number of ex-employees that rant about bus operators. They’ve usually worked their way through every PCV operator within a 30 mile radius, but never twig that it might be them with the problem!

 

[Jordan Adam]

I‘m always amused by the number of ex-employees that rant about bus operators. They’ve usually worked their way through every PCV operator within a 30 mile radius, but never twig that it might be them with the problem!

I agree, hence why i specifically made sure to mention "ex-employees" . It's amazing the amount of people who will do nothing but sing praises about one company and how great they are, yet the minute they've left they'll do nothing but say how awful they were, as if the company has changed overnight!

 

[overthewater]

I would have to agree, Dundee would have been a prefect fit for First, City operations would be in-between two depots, ticks all the right boxes.

For clarity... My point was that First buying Xplore would've been more likely than Stagecoach. Not that First were considering or even likely to buy it.

Although i somewhat disagree with your argument as i don't think you can always use past experience to dictate the future, especially when some of the examples are over 5 years ago. In the last few years there's been a clear change in motive at First. Certainly more recently within Scotland First have been looking to expand. First Scotland East now covers a larger area, plus they entered the tour bus market in Edinburgh with an Aberdeen Tour due for launch next season. Stagecoach on the other hand sold off their Fort William operations and have been cutting back services / cost saving year on year at their Scottish Opcos you just need to compare the 2009 Bluebird/Highland networks with no to see the sheer extent to cutbacks over the last decade.

 

[cnjb8]

For clarity... My point was that First buying Xplore would've been more likely than Stagecoach. Not that First were considering or even likely to buy it.

Although i somewhat disagree with your argument as i don't think you can always use past experience to dictate the future, especially when some of the examples are over 5 years ago. In the last few years there's been a clear change in motive at First. Certainly more recently within Scotland First have been looking to expand. First Scotland East now covers a larger area, plus they entered the tour bus market in Edinburgh with an Aberdeen Tour due for launch next season. Stagecoach on the other hand sold off their Fort William operations and have been cutting back services / cost saving year on year at their Scottish Opcos you just need to compare the 2009 Bluebird/Highland networks with no to see the sheer extent to cutbacks over the last decade.

Back on topic! I do think West Coast Motors and McGill's were most likely to buy Xplore Dundee as they seem to be the most looking to expand within Scotland, and despite what some ex-employees rant about online both do seem generally well run, WCM especially.

Well ok then but Firsts position hasn't changed with some of those examples from 2019. Who did Stagecoach sell Fort William to?

 

[overthewater]

Well ok then but Firsts position hasn't changed with some of those examples from 2019. Who did Stagecoach sell Fort William to?

Stagecoach never sold anything, there just closed down the depot. A local company picked up the work shiel buses.

When did the website change?

 

[cnjb8]

Stagecoach never sold anything, there just closed down the depot. A local company picked up the work shiel buses.

When did the website change?

Thank you

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

McGills I0608 and I0610 have arrived at Dundee today. I0607 and I0609 are expected to follow, and are replacing the 4 Levantes currently in X90 branding (being used on rail replacement currently).

 

[markymark2000]

McGills I0608 and I0610 have arrived at Dundee today. I0607 and I0609 are expected to follow, and are replacing the 4 Levantes currently in X90 branding (being used on rail replacement currently).

Is the plan essentially for the current X90 Levantes to remain with NX to reduce the sale price for McGills?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Is the plan essentially for the current X90 Levantes to remain with NX to reduce the sale price for McGills?

I'm not sure of the specifics.

It has been reported 2246 has transferred back to NXWM (without even being in service in Dundee!) but I've not seen the info first-hand myself.

 

[kez19]

I'm not sure of the specifics.

It has been reported 2246 has transferred back to NXWM (without even being in service in Dundee!) but I've not seen the info first-hand myself.

According to Flickr pic dated 23 December 2020 - still strange to have a bus up to then return it? (even looked under bustimes for that number its not listed either), 2245 is another to add to the either its transferred/unknown

I read on Flickr a similar thing with I think bus 6686 going on loan to McGills (again I am only reading from what I see on Flickr)

Xplore Dundee 6686 SN69 ZBY

Soon to go on lease to McGill's, 6686 sits in the depot on spare duties

www.flickr.com

Just to also add I looked on this site http://www.quack77.uk/fleetlists/fleet.php?ownerid=85 (site is unofficial) and 2245/46 have * marked against them unsure why.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

According to Flickr pic dated 23 December 2020 - still strange to have a bus up to then return it? (even looked under bustimes for that number its not listed either)

I read on Flickr a similar thing with I think bus 6686 going on loan to McGills (again I am only reading from what I see on Flickr

2245/6 haven't been in service in Dundee so won't show on bustimes.

All of the Emeralds are to go on a 10 year lease to McGills

 

[kez19]

2245/6 haven't been in service in Dundee so won't show on bustimes.

All of the Emeralds are to go on a 10 year lease to McGills

Now that I didn't know about the Emeralds! I'm only speculating here, so will there be exchanges then if the Emeralds are on lease or am I looking at it wrongly?

 

[markymark2000]

Now that I didn't know about the Emeralds! I'm only speculating here, so will there be exchanges then if the Emeralds are on lease or am I looking at it wrongly?

Some new buses will have to come in to replace the emeralds if they are only on lease. Unless more cuts are due.

All of the Emeralds are to go on a 10 year lease to McGills

Anything else just on lease and not bought?

 

[kez19]

Some new buses will have to come in to replace the emeralds if they are only on lease. Unless more cuts are due

If McGills does bring in new, I hope its new and not recycled, ie send up buses no longer in use for Glasgow but lets chuck them up the road (NXWM were bad with that and for me McGills shouldn't either!)

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Some new buses will have to come in to replace the emeralds if they are only on lease. Unless more cuts are due.

No more cuts are due until physical distancing is no longer required on buses. As I said, it is a 10 year lease, I don't expect anything to happen too soon, especially given the current climate.

Anything else just on lease and not bought?

Not sure. I only explicitly know the Emeralds are on a 10 year lease to McGills.

 

[route101]

What are the Emeralds?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

What are the Emeralds?

The Enviro400 MMCs.

 

[kez19]

What are the Emeralds?

The Emeralds are 6678-6700

6686 - SN69ZNY - Xplore Dundee - ADL Enviro400 MMC

6686 SN69ZNY. Xplore Dundee Enviro400 MMC running the Outer Circle service 10. This vehicle was part of the second batch of 400MMC's delivered to Xplore Dundee in early 2020.

www.flickr.com

 

[route101]

The Emeralds are 6678-6700

6686 - SN69ZNY - Xplore Dundee - ADL Enviro400 MMC

6686 SN69ZNY. Xplore Dundee Enviro400 MMC running the Outer Circle service 10. This vehicle was part of the second batch of 400MMC's delivered to Xplore Dundee in early 2020.

www.flickr.com

I see , didn't know there was a nickname for them.

 

[kez19]

I see , didn't know there was a nickname for them.

When I first heard the name of them originally I thought of Sonic the Hedgehog and the Chaos Emeralds!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It has been reported 2246 has transferred back to NXWM (without even being in service in Dundee!) but I've not seen the info first-hand myself.

2246 is confirmed as one of three vehicles not part of the deal, and will be returning to the West Midlands in due course.

 

[kez19]

2246 is confirmed as one of three vehicles not part of the deal, and will be returning to the West Midlands in due course.

Seems a bit of a botched job, whilst I get the bus can be repainted to one of the NX subsidiaries, does seem more money wasted plus for the bus to have come up to then return too.