Young children on trains

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I normally dress fairly smartly and even two weeks ago I had an older woman giving me the evils in First Class on XC.

That said, she then proceeded to pretty much demand the contents of the complimentary refreshments offer!

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Yes, I never dress thuggish, or act like it either. I'm very mature for my age, probably why I'm complaining about children in this thread, and I'm used to traveling in first so I always act perfectly civilised and calm.

Agh autocorrect keeps changing travelling to traveling! :-x Grr

 

[317666]

If you ask me, quiet coaches should be more widespread and definitely better enforced (I believe this is a discussion that has cropped up many, many times on here!). That said, it's definitely not just noisy families which disrupt the peace in the quiet coach! Having a family-friendly coach with lots of groups of seats rather than airline would be a nice idea, but I can't imagine a lot of the travelling public actually paying attention to it. You see people sit in first class without realising, in the quiet coach without realising, putting their bike in random doorways rather than in the bike area and so on - to them, the train is the train, nothing more.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes but on a long formation train I think an Over10s Zone might go a long way?
There's enough room! Say a Pendolino:

3 First Class coaches (1 over 10s only maybe)
7 Standard coaches
1 Over 10s coach (Standard)

 

[rg177]

"Over 10" would be very difficult to enforce without demanding proof of age from every child passenger.

If you want to go down that route, you may as well say that only adult tickets would be valid and make it an adults only coach. But of course, it'd instead be full of people making the same noise they usually do, minus a couple of kids having the odd whine.

I've also been on plenty of wedged 11 coach Pendolinos, enough to tell you that you'd just be complicating things.

 

[roversfan2001]

And I'd hesitate to say that maybe an adults only coach would have an increased level of foul language as there would be no children around.

If there's any designations to be had on trains its First and Standard. Anything else just complicates things and can easily become unenforceable.

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[GusB]

I'm not a parent, therefore I have no experience with taking children on trains, but when I was a child, taking the train was the only way we could really travel. We didn't have a car, and there wasn't quite the same express coach network as there is now.

As well as the usual suitcases (and cat basket), we usually carried at least one bag of "stuff" that would keep us amused during the journey: colouring pencils and a big pad of paper, a book or two and, most importantly, a plastic tub with lots of sandwiches, crisps and fruit.

My parents would point out various landmarks along the journey, and there were endless games of I-spy. I suppose it helped that I was into trains, as was my dad, so he'd point out railway-related things along the way. My brother was very small at the time, so the usual baby-maintenance was all he required.

All this travel was on loco-hauled stock, however, and we were guaranteed a table, which is essential for all of this to work. I'm sure I saw this mentioned in the "Quiet coach" thread, but perhaps a "Family coach" which has all-table seating wouldn't be a bad idea. It's not much fun when a family of four has to split up for a long journey, and I'd imagine it would be rather nightmarish when there are more than two kids.

 

[317666]

I don't think there's any need for age-related segregation - you could have a perfectly well-behaved nine-year-old and a disruptive eleven-year-old, yet the disruptive one would be allowed into an 'Over 10' zone if it existed. Just better enforcement of the quiet coach and, like I said, perhaps the provision of a coach designed to attract travelling families which those who want a peaceful journey would know to avoid, and giving families a much better chance of finding a group of seats which would make their journey easier/more enjoyable.

At the end of the day, yes, loud children on trains are annoying, but so are drunks/football fans/businessmen shouting down the phone and so on. There's only so much you can do without it getting ridiculous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All this travel was on loco-hauled stock, however, and we were guaranteed a table, which is essential for all of this to work. I'm sure I saw this mentioned in the "Quiet coach" thread, but perhaps a "Family coach" which has all-table seating wouldn't be a bad idea. It's not much fun when a family of four has to split up for a long journey, and I'd imagine it would be rather nightmarish when there are more than two kids.

Yes, it was me that put that in - a family coach with all tables and perhaps things like board game boards printed on the tables (anyone remember the XC Mk2 set that had that? Charming real wood panelling, too), a small play area etc. Obviously you couldn't stop other people sitting there, but you could reserve as a family.

To counter the loss of capacity the quiet coach could be all airline seats, as that discourages conversation and discourages groups from sitting in there whether adult or child.

ISTR that DB have actually done both of these on some of their rolling stock. SBB certainly have family coaches.

 

[317666]

To counter the loss of capacity the quiet coach could be all airline seats, as that discourages conversation and discourages groups from sitting in there whether adult or child.

Recently refurbished double-decker EMUs in the Netherlands have the bottom deck designated as the 'loud' coach with quite a few bays of seats, and the top deck as the 'quiet' coach with mostly airline seating.

 

[theageofthetra]

Let me give my thoughts as a parent who has taken their kids on trains since they were tiny (including in first class).

Firstly the problem is not with the children but with the parents and virtually everything you have described is unacceptable and even when my kids were small they have commented on the bad behaviour of other children.

• Watching movies etc without headphones is wrong - I really don't understand this as most kids movies are annoying for parents for the 75th time
  
• Kids screaming - try to quieten them and if this doesn't happen take them to the vestibule and calm them there

The only one I would slightly disagree with is about the "Daddy look! It's another train!!!!" comments as this is enthusiasm and is great but I agree it should be at an acceptable volume ("use your inside voice").

Kids on trains are fine but parents must be respectful of other travellers

Anyone listening without headphones gets told about their selfish behaviour if near me. Its unacceptable.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

To a large extent, it's about everyone
- recognising that they are in a public place, and
- being sensitive to the needs of others.

So if you are travelling with children (or indeed if you are a child) you are sensitive to the needs of others by trying to be quiet and not disruptive to allow the others to have the peace and quiet that they crave.

But if you are someone who may find noise disturbing, you have to recognise that children may not be able to be quiet, and so you are sensitive to their needs by putting up with disturbance.

What this amounts to is that parents/carers/etc should be seen to be trying to keep their charges quiet - and no one else should be complaining if the effort is being made, even if it turns out that the effort isn't successful. That means you can save your grumbling for those who don't seem to care.

 

[Mag_seven]

What about the many "adults" that behave like children! They can be much worse!

 

[edwin_m]

I do see your point. However I think with...

When I see a child under the age of 6 board the train, my heart sinks, because I know what my journey is going to be from that point on.

...you are being at little unreasonable and possibly you are setting up your own expectation to be disappointed. In fact ...

Please do let me know what you think about very young children (6 and under) making a load of racket on the train. And when I say a load of racket, I mean LOADS!

... I think you are recognising here that many children under 6 are well-behaved (though there are some older ones and indeed adults who aren't).

I suggest the answer is nearly always just to grin and bear it, or if it's really bad move to another coach where possible (and it usually is). Be grateful you aren't on a plane! Personally I wouldn't intervene with the parents or involve traincrew unless the child was doing something really inappropriate or dangerous, and I'd make sure to point out the nature of the danger the child is in rather than the consequences to others. The people who are parents to rowdy children are often the ones who believe their child can do no wrong and the person criticising them is at fault.

 

[Llanigraham]

What an interesting discussion. As a father who regularly travels by train with his 2.5 year old let me add a couple of thoughts.

Parenting is one aspect to this. My perception is most parents travelling with kids are very adept at attending to their children's needs while travelling. Other parents seems too engrossed in their smart phone to pay attention to their own children - so I agree that good parenting is key. Any child crying loudly and persistently clearly isn't getting their needs met and wants attention from their parents.

My strategy is to keep my daughter entertained. A packed lunch will keep her occupied for 20 minutes. A sticker book / magazine works well, as does colouring in or reading a story. Looking out of the window also works. And when this doesn't work there's the emergency iPad and headphones with downloaded episodes of Hey Duggee and Topsy and Tim on BBC iPlayer.

On board staff can really help out too. A pretend ticket printed out really goes a long way (though one Northern guard doing this got a bit of a shock when my daughter reached into his money pouch and pulled out about £50 while he was distracted printing off a pretend ticket). A helping hand with a bag or pushchair really does make things easier as well.

The fact is young children can get overexcited and can be a bit loud - it's no big deal and they usually calm down after a minute or two. I find pensioners shouting unnecessarily into their mobile phones, people listening to music without headphones (or those with headphones but the music turned up so loud they may as well not had bothered with them), and people having loud conversations about their love life or how high council tax is to be just as, if not more, disruptive. Yet because these people aren't children it is tolerated.

My overriding view is that if you find yourself unnecessarily offended or uncomfortable by the presence of my or any other child, and providing neither I nor my child is being unduly disruptive and have valid tickets / authority to travel for our journey then you are more than welcome to move to another seat in a different part of the train, or even alight at the next station and wait for the next train.

Where's the Like button??

Strikes me that a few people have forgotten they were children once, and I bet they weren't well behaved all the time.

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes, I never dress thuggish, or act like it either. I'm very mature for my age, probably why I'm complaining about children in this thread, and I'm used to traveling in first so I always act perfectly civilised and calm.

Sorry, but no. If you were very mature for your age you would have learnt tolerance and understanding, and your comments about children (and dogs) would have been different.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry, but no. If you were very mature for your age you would have learnt tolerance and understanding, and your comments about children (and dogs) would have been different.

While I get your point about children, while I personally am quite a fan of dogs and would like to have one at some point when I have the proper time to care for one (so probably after retirement), I don't think there's anything immature about a strong dislike for them, nor a fear of them (they can after all kill people if they want).

However, even with children there are two sides to it. Some parents have no choice, but often parents booking long train journeys, air journeys or visiting supermarkets with three screaming small children in tow are actually just pursuing their own ends and not considering the children at all. A single parent has little choice, but a married couple are better off having one parent take one child to the supermarket and involve and educate them properly in the shopping process than both parents dragging both around kicking and screaming. And if your kids hate long-haul flights or trains that much, book a more local holiday.

 

[The Ham]

Let me give my thoughts as a parent who has taken their kids on trains since they were tiny (including in first class).

Firstly the problem is not with the children but with the parents and virtually everything you have described is unacceptable and even when my kids were small they have commented on the bad behaviour of other children.

• Watching movies etc without headphones is wrong - I really don't understand this as most kids movies are annoying for parents for the [delete]75th[/delete] 5th time
  
• Kids screaming - try to quieten them and if this doesn't happen take them to the vestibule and calm them there

The only one I would slightly disagree with is about the "Daddy look! It's another train!!!!" comments as this is enthusiasm and is great but I agree it should be at an acceptable volume ("use your inside voice").

Kids on trains are fine but parents must be respectful of other travellers

Corrected that for you...

 

[theblackwatch]

It sounds like it isn't just my parents who went to the effort of trying to keep us amused during journeys. I do, however, think that not enough make that effort! (And I'm sure it applied that some didn't back in the 70s/80s too.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

It sounds like it isn't just my parents who went to the effort of trying to keep us amused during journeys. I do, however, think that not enough make that effort! (And I'm sure it applied that some didn't back in the 70s/80s too.)

It is a bit too easy to attempt to amuse a kid with electronic devices these days rather than to put in the proper effort of engaging and sharing the journey experience with them.

You certainly get the impression that some parents wish they hadn't had kids, judging by how little they seem to like to spend time interacting with them

 

[theblackwatch]

It is a bit too easy to attempt to amuse a kid with electronic devices these days rather than to put in the proper effort of engaging and sharing the journey experience with them.

I notice the words "attempt to" in there! I look back at the journeys I did and see them as part of my education. In fact, age 11, I took my Grandma and her sister to London from Yorkshire for a day out... it was supposed to be them taking me, but I knew my way round much better than them, including navigating the tube network!

 

[jon0844]

My son knows he can't listen to a tablet without headphones, but he does have a tendency to talk extra loud when he had the headphones on.

He's slowly realising what he's doing (I think) and it can be quite embarrassing at times, as well as annoying for those around us.

But he knows he can't run around, jump or put feet on seats and he's quite shy around others - so sometimes I think it might be take a table and sit with others than airline seats.

 

[DarloRich]

you have to take books, colouring pens, toys, games and ipads to keep kids amused. Going to grannys in Scotland can be a challenge but we tend to manage ok. A decent pack up with a few treats helps no end.

Things like how many football grounds can you see from the train with a prize at the end always helps. However the argument over the stadiums at Wigan & Lancaster count could get heated

 

[Raul_Duke]

I'd rather have a train full of excited toddlers than arrogant, social skill lacking trainspotters with questionable personal hygiene.

 

[E_Reeves]

Being a similar age, I too find it annoying. Especially when they point out a train whilst I'm filming it. I've had it when they are running around between carriages and constantly opening the connecting corridor doors.

 

[Raul_Duke]

I'd rather have a train full of excited toddlers than arrogant, social skill lacking trainspotters with their attendant levels questionable personal hygiene.

But that's the nature of public transport.

Don't like it? Drive.

 

[E_Reeves]

I'd rather have a train full of excited toddlers than arrogant, social skill lacking trainspotters with their attendant levels questionable personal hygiene.

But that's the nature of public transport.

Don't like it? Drive.

Not all trainspotters are like that

 

[Josie]

To a large extent, it's about everyone
- recognising that they are in a public place, and
- being sensitive to the needs of others.

So if you are travelling with children (or indeed if you are a child) you are sensitive to the needs of others by trying to be quiet and not disruptive to allow the others to have the peace and quiet that they crave.

But if you are someone who may find noise disturbing, you have to recognise that children may not be able to be quiet, and so you are sensitive to their needs by putting up with disturbance.

What this amounts to is that parents/carers/etc should be seen to be trying to keep their charges quiet - and no one else should be complaining if the effort is being made, even if it turns out that the effort isn't successful. That means you can save your grumbling for those who don't seem to care.

This sums it up perfectly for me. Public spaces are just that, we all need to share them, and we all have our requirements for being there. Most people are trying their best and for the most part it evens out.

OP - I note your comments about being on the autistic spectrum. (I suspect quite a few of us here are!) If you'd like a suggestion, my three-year-old seldom goes anywhere without a pair of ear defenders in his bag. He doesn't often use them, but if the environment gets too noisy and we can't get him away from it, they're a great way to avoid a meltdown from loud noise. He also tends to be more relaxed about being in unfamiliar or slightly noisy places to begin with, if he knows he's got the ear defenders to deploy if he gets overstimulated. I know autistic adults who swear by them too - might be worth a try if loud noises cause you difficulty beyond what you can reasonably ask people to avoid.

 

[Raul_Duke]

Not all trainspotters are like that

Neither are all children....

 

[Darandio]

Especially when they point out a train whilst I'm filming it.

Want to expand on that?

You mean that because a youngster may excitedly point out a train, you get irked because you may be filing at the time?

 

[E_Reeves]

Want to expand on that?

You mean that because a youngster may excitedly point out a train, you get irked because you may be filing at the time?

Well sometimes they may get in the way as they are running around and you'll have screaming (or whatever they are doing) on the video. However, some young children are well behaved, mainly due to the use of electronics