378 extra coach

[SpacePhoenix]

Why wasn't the hardware and/or software for the TMS programed and/or wired to allow any number of coaches in a unit in the first place?

 

[swt_passenger]

Why wasn't the hardware and/or software for the TMS programed and/or wired to allow any number of coaches in a unit in the first place?

Most likely because they used or adapted the existing Electrostar TMS that was already available, and was adequate for the 3 and 4 car units that were originally delivered. At the time of the original ITT they weren't too confident about even needing 4 cars, half of them have already been extended to 4 car post delivery. We are now benefiting from 5 years of hindsight, 5 car max was probably reasonable at the time.

 

[Techniquest]

Is there any gen on whether they're all getting re-numbered again with the 5th coach?

 

[306024]

GOBLIN will be getting an all-new fleet shared with Lea Valley Overground and the Romford-Upminster shuttle. As that's what TfL are specifying.

The Lea Valley services remain with Abellio Greater Anglia. The new units are for the Enfield / Cheshunt / Chingford services.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there any gen on whether they're all getting re-numbered again with the 5th coach?

There have been posts elsewhere saying that they aren't being renumbered. If (as we know) the intention is to do the whole fleet, and the infrastructure is capable on all routes, then there's probably no operational need to have different class numbers.

 

[Techniquest]

There have been posts elsewhere saying that they aren't being renumbered. If (as we know) the intention is to do the whole fleet, and the infrastructure is capable on all routes, then there's probably no operational need to have different class numbers.

I've obviously missed those then, not difficult if you have a few days away from the forum, so much gets missed!

It does make sense to not renumber them, maybe next time I'm down that way I'll actually make an effort to scoop some more 378s in!

 

[swt_passenger]

I've obviously missed those then, not difficult if you have a few days away from the forum, so much gets missed!

It wasn't in this forum, I think it was part of a similar discussion in wnxx.

 

[87015]

There have been posts elsewhere saying that they aren't being renumbered. If (as we know) the intention is to do the whole fleet, and the infrastructure is capable on all routes, then there's probably no operational need to have different class numbers.

Not all the fleet - a number of units are staying as 4 cars for the DC.

 

[Nym]

Not all the fleet - a number of units are staying as 4 cars for the DC.

Ummm, why?

 

[Class377/5]

Not all the fleet - a number of units are staying as 4 cars for the DC.

Not true. 57 carriages were ordered, one for each 378.

You may be confusing it with rumors of new build four car units releasing the 5 car 378 off the DC line to NLL.

Here's a TfL document stating that all 378s re going 5 cars

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...=UvkEbrpLhW_A0EykBeeC7A&bvm=bv.78677474,d.ZGU

 

[swt_passenger]

Not all the fleet - a number of units are staying as 4 cars for the DC.

Overtaken by later decisions.

 

[87015]

Not true. 57 carriages were ordered, one for each 378.

You may be confusing it with rumors of new build four car units releasing the 5 car 378 off the DC line to NLL.

Here's a TfL document stating that all 378s re going 5 cars

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...=UvkEbrpLhW_A0EykBeeC7A&bvm=bv.78677474,d.ZGU

Aah yes, but 4 car 378s for the DC UFN - by the Summer all the NLL/ELL units should be five car whilst a DC 378 fleet will stick at 4-cars at least until any new stock arrives to displace them.

 

[MCR247]

Whats preventing the DC from having 5 car stock? :?

 

[Class377/5]

Aah yes, but 4 car 378s for the DC UFN - by the Summer all the NLL/ELL units should be five car whilst a DC 378 fleet will stick at 4-cars at least until any new stock arrives to displace them.

So where are the DC five car stock going then?

Considering new stock is due Q2/3 2017 and most of the 378 stock will all be five car by the end of 2015 you've got a gap of nearly two years where there is only five car stock available to explain if the DC is never getting four cars.

 

[user15681]

Only just noticed the paths for the first 5 car runs planned for this week, Thursday 6th November...

5Z01 10+44 New Cross Gate C.S.D - Surrey Quays
9Z01 11:05 Surrey Quays - Dalston Junction
5Z02 11+28 Dalston Junction - New Cross Gate C.S.D

Standard warning of may/may not run applies, plan could have been changed since they were put in.

 

[MCR247]

I would've thought that all 378s would be lengthened when the carriages arrive, but the Watford DC will get the 4 car stock when it arrives? Why have centre cars sitting around for 2 years doing nothing?

 

[Nym]

Especially when the DC lines will happily take 6x20m trains that seem to be getting all the busier from the top end of the DCs into Euston and are getting rather uncomfortable for a 42min journey...

Why would one order a six car unit for the DCs? 3 car with a gangway or fixed formation 6 car would be significantly better...

(Especially if combined with the ability to up the service from 3tph to 6tph to inter work with the probably 6tph on the met...)

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Especially when the DC lines will happily take 6x20m trains that seem to be getting all the busier from the top end of the DCs into Euston and are getting rather uncomfortable for a 42min journey...

Why would one order a six car unit for the DCs? 3 car with a gangway or fixed formation 6 car would be significantly better...

(Especially if combined with the ability to up the service from 3tph to 6tph to inter work with the probably 6tph on the met...)

What's the absolute maximum number of cars per train the DC line could handle if every platform on the route was physically lengthen as much as possible? I don't know the route, there might be some platforms where the physically isn't the room to lengthen them. If its say 8 car then LO could get some 8 car units and move the existing units onto other LO routes to strengthen services.

Do the 378s all have the hardware and/or software already installed for SDO (at the very least by coach - ideally by individual door)?

 

[Skoodle]

Do the 378s all have the hardware and/or software already installed for SDO (at the very least by coach - ideally by individual door)?

No they don't, the beacon reader for SDO and CSDE is installed in the P/TOS during the installation of the 5th carriage.

 

[mr_jrt]

This has cropped up many times over the years, and this is the best source I found on the subject. Just bear in mind I found it 5 years ago, so it's almost certainly out of date.

The Rules of the Plan give the following platform lengths for the DC Lines:

London Euston - Platform 9 - 197m (9x20m Vehicles, 8x23m Vehicles)
Platform 10 - 194m (9x20m Vehicles, 8x23m Vehicles)

South Hampstead - Both Platforms - 123m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Kilburn High Road - Down - 164m (8x20m Vehicles, 7x23m Vehicles)
Up - 145m (7x20m Vehicles, 6x23m Vehicles)

Queens Park - Platform 1 - 141m (7x20m Vehicles, 6x23m Vehicles)
Platform 4 - 132m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Kensal Green - Both Platforms - 123m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Willesden Jn - Both Platforms - 125m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Harlesden - Both Platforms - 123m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Stonebridge Pk - Both Platforms - 125m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Wembley Central - Both DC Plats - 127m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

North Wembley - Both Platforms - 123m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

South Kenton - Both Platforms - 121m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Kenton - Both Platforms - 121m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Harrow & Wealdstone - Platform 1 - 121m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)
Platform 2 - 182m (9x20m Vehicles, 7x23m Vehicles)

Headstone Lane - Both Platforms - 128m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Hatch End - Both Platforms - 137m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Carpenders Park - Both Platforms - 128m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Bushey - Platform 1 - 134m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)
Platform 2 - 146m (7x20m Vehicles, 6x23m Vehicles)

Watford High St - Both Platforms - 128m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

Watford Junction - All DC Plats - 135m (6x20m Vehicles, 5x23m Vehicles)

So whilst all of the stations can take a pair of 313s, only Euston,
Kilburn High Road on the Down and Harrow & Wealdstone on the Up can take
a pair of 4 car units.

 

[user15681]

The 5th carriage of 378135 was unveiled today. It's had a vinyl applied to make it look like the carriage is covered in roundel themed wrapping paper that's being peeled off. It's also got something like "This is one of 57 extra carriages" on the side too, as well as a large London Overground logo on the front of the unit and in big letters "5 car train". Not sure how long these will remain on the unit.

 

[gage75]

Sounds like Bombardier and LO are getting into the Crimbo spirit wrapping carriages ready for opening at Christmas

 

[Starmill]

So, when will LO be needing six coach trains?

What a sensible idea it was to build Whitechapel, Wapping, Rotherhithe and Canada Water only to 4 car length and underground!

 

[hassaanhc]

What a sensible idea it was to build Whitechapel, Wapping, Rotherhithe and Canada Water only to 4 car length and underground!

Gonna have to ask the Victorians that

But yes, demand seems to have exploded after the ELL conversion thanks to the better links, especially on the southern end branches (didn't the old SLL run 2tph with a single 456?)
As for the NLL, think there was suppressed demand and severe overcrowding with 3 cars, quite why the first came as 3 cars I don't get (fortunately quickly realised).

 

[Chris125]

As for the NLL, think there was suppressed demand and severe overcrowding with 3 cars, quite why the first came as 3 cars I don't get (fortunately quickly realised).

IIRC the extra trailers were ordered before the 3-car 378s had even entered service.

Chris

 

[Class377/5]

Few pics

London Overground - First 5 Car Train in Service by Juniper007, on Flickr

London Overground - First 5 Car Train in Service by Juniper007, on Flickr

London Overground - First 5 Car Train in Service by Juniper007, on Flickr

 

[Feathers44]

Thanks for those. It will be a while before I have an excuse to get into Overground territory again to look for a 5-car.

 

[jopsuk]

anyone else want that as actual wrapping paper?

 

[Bald Rick]

As for the NLL, think there was suppressed demand and severe overcrowding with 3 cars, quite why the first came as 3 cars I don't get (fortunately quickly realised).

Many platforms weren't long enough, and the trains were due to arrive before the platforms were lengthened.

 

[Class377/5]

Many platforms weren't long enough, and the trains were due to arrive before the platforms were lengthened.

Indeed. What TfL did was introduce new air conned units with greater carrying capacity where 3 car 313 were rammed. Its been a complete process of increased capacity steps as they've gone on.