Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
being 6'6" and 19 St is quite a test of a seat i think.
Only a cheap one that isn't designed to a proper specification.
being 6'6" and 19 St is quite a test of a seat i think.
So which of the issues above does a 6'6" 19st passenger sitting in it (and for how long and how many times), constitute a test that proves a seat's worth?being 6'6" and 19 St is quite a test of a seat i think.
not enough leg room, headrest too low, seat squab get compressed by weight so its like sitting on a a hard surface.So which of the issues above does a 6'6" 19st passenger sitting in it (and for how long and how many times), constitute a test that proves a seat's worth?
I don't understand that either, in the south I use 455s and 317s quite a bit and they are fine, quite like a good fast run out of Liverpool Street on a 317 to Cambridge, 150s can't be that much different, exactly the same body as a 317 just diesel instead of electric.Either the 390s or 220/221s. Cramped layout, horrible airline seating, I can’t stand them. I don’t get the hate for the 150s, they’re definitely not the worst, pacers anyone?
They literally have no redeeming qualities.
I don't understand that either, in the south I use 455s and 317s quite a bit and they are fine, quite like a good fast run out of Liverpool Street on a 317 to Cambridge, 150s can't be that much different, exactly the same body as a 317 just diesel instead of electric.
Southern 455's now. Had a few break down/struggle to start from the Forest Hill stop in the Down direction
Pacers are the obvious choice but I have to say most of the Mark III-derived multiple units run them close. I loathe both 150s and 319s which are awful units, but the likes of 317s, 318s, 320s, 321s and 322s are not much better. Appalling seating, poor acceleration and depressing interiors. Can't wait for the day when all these classes are extinct from our railways.
I nominate LNE 319s. Not bad in their day, but people said that of bleeding patients for infections. These are well past their day. Needs scrapping
The 465 Networkers aren't perfect, but you can see that Network Southeast made an effort with them, with 2 powered carriages instead of 1, plug doors (so no blank wall pocket and much smoother looks) and (when built) perfect seat/window alignment.Pacers are the obvious choice but I have to say most of the Mark III-derived multiple units run them close. I loathe both 150s and 319s which are awful units, but the likes of 317s, 318s, 320s, 321s and 322s are not much better. Appalling seating, poor acceleration and depressing interiors. Can't wait for the day when all these classes are extinct from our railways.
Realistically such an individual is an outlier. A seat optimised for them would likely be absolutely awful for a 5', 6 stone petite female who would find the headrest way too high and the seat squab overpadded. Hence seat design is inevitably a compromise.not enough leg room, headrest too low, seat squab get compressed by weight so its like sitting on a a hard surface.
Most, but l concede not all, of the criticisms you make of Mk3 derived MUs also apply in spades to the PEP units which you seem to be an aficionado of...Pacers are the obvious choice but I have to say most of the Mark III-derived multiple units run them close. I loathe both 150s and 319s which are awful units, but the likes of 317s, 318s, 320s, 321s and 322s are not much better. Appalling seating, poor acceleration and depressing interiors. Can't wait for the day when all these classes are extinct from our railways.
Most, but l concede not all, of the criticisms you make of Mk3 derived MUs also apply in spades to the PEP units which you seem to be an aficionado of...
The 465 Networkers aren't perfect, but you can see that Network Southeast made an effort with them, with 2 powered carriages instead of 1, plug doors (so no blank wall pocket and much smoother looks) and (when built) perfect seat/window alignment.
Most, but l concede not all, of the criticisms you make of Mk3 derived MUs also apply in spades to the PEP units which you seem to be an aficionado of...
The PEP-derived units do not have poor acceleration, and the interiors of the Merseyrail and Southern examples are better than any Mk3 derived units I've experienced across a number of operators. Frankly, I have no idea how it's possible to make an EMU as slow as the 317-322 family. My Whirlpool washing machine could accelerate faster than all of them.
The PEP-derived units do not have poor acceleration, and the interiors of the Merseyrail and Southern examples are better than any Mk3 derived units I've experienced across a number of operators.
The acceleration is the main exception definitely. Merseyrail PEP-derived units have decent interiors l agree. So do the SWT refurbished 455s, which l personally consider better (ironically quite a high proportion have one PEP type trailer per unit).The PEP-derived units do not have poor acceleration, and the interiors of the Merseyrail and Southern examples are better than any Mk3 derived units I've experienced across a number of operators. Frankly, I have no idea how it's possible to make an EMU as slow as the 317-322 family. My Whirlpool washing machine could accelerate faster than all of them.
The acceleration is the main exception definitely. Merseyrail PEP-derived units have decent interiors l agree. So do the SWT refurbished 455s, which l personally consider better (ironically quite a high proportion have one PEP type trailer per unit).
Agreed.One thing where the PEPs do win out is modernity (yes, I know). They somehow seem to be a more timeless design, and many people don't know the Merseyrail units are as old as they are as a result. The Mk3 derived units, by contrast, just look 1980s.
OK, with PEPs the original lighting and colour scheme looks 70s, but if you replace that it takes away most such signs.
The Southern 455s are markedly worse than the SWR ones.To be fair, I don't mind the 455s, which are easily the best of the Mk3 family.
I won't miss the 317-322s though. Dreadful units.
The windows would fog up as soon as it rained outside or it was a cold day. If you're unlucky the rain would get through the window seal and drip onto the seats.They have one - excellent all-round window view, so good for scenic branch lines. Unlike Class 150/1s which have no seats properly aligned with the windows.
I remember finishing work in the beautiful town of Tenby on a miserable wet cold windy day getting to the station saw my least favourite train and thought at least I will be out the rain and it then broke down for a hour at the station (thankfully they let us on and it was nice and warm but not fun)The windows would fog up as soon as it rained outside or it was a cold day. If you're unlucky the rain would get through the window seal and drip onto the seats.
But yeah they did have big windows for good viewing.
Haha yeah the broken down Pacer is a rite of passage for work commuters. At least you were warm.I remember finishing work in the beautiful town of Tenby on a miserable wet cold windy day getting to the station saw my least favourite train and thought at least I will be out the rain and it then broke down for a hour at the station (thankfully they let us on and it was nice and warm but not fun)
Yep warm and dry and what's a good museum general assistant without a good book so all ended well but it's another of my reason why I hate the Pacers even tho I will miss them when gone they are bad trains but have character and definitely served a purposeHaha yeah the broken down Pacer is a rite of passage for work commuters. At least you were warm.