Worst UK train?

[bussikuski179]

Personally I just don’t like Networkers. The 365s and Met-Cam 465s are fine, their saving grace are the amazing motor sounds, but the Javworkers and Turbos are just... bad. They just don’t feel like they’re very good quality, and they feel old too. They’re only 25 or so years old. The doors are stupidly loud too. I mean, Finnish Eil coaches had loud air doors at the start as well, but they were replaced with quieter electric doors in the early 00’s. They’re 10 years older than the Networkers and still feel relatively modern. So why can’t they just modernise them? Add working AC, some new doors, newer seats (755 style, not ironing boards, 2+2 as well so they’re more suitable for longer distances), and maybe even some new electric motors. They have the potential to be really good trains, but they just aren’t.

 

[507021]

Class 230 - Boring

All Pacers and Sprinters except 158/159 - Slow, Noisy, Boring

Slow? For the work the Pacers, 150s, 153s, 155s and 156s do, a maximum speed of 75mph is more than adequate.
Noisy? They're over 30 years old.
Boring? If you want an exciting mode of transport, then I'd suggest a sports car or supercar.

That's probably justified more than the previous poster saying they're boring, which they aren't really.

I agree. I think "utilitarian" is probably the best word to describe the Sprinter and Super Sprinter units. They're fairly basic no-frills trains, but they do a job and they do it well. A bit like the Series I Land Rover Discovery and Range Rover Classic, in my view.

 

[greyman42]

The 365s and Met-Cam 465s are fine,

The BREL 465 is a better train than the Met-Cam version.

 

[Speed43125]

The BREL 465 is a better train than the Met-Cam version.

I agree. Splitting the production within classes always seemed odd to me, would have been better off surely to split production as needed for different classes (eg Met-Cam built the 16x, BREL, do the 3rd rail units)

 

[Mikey C]

The BREL 465 is a better train than the Met-Cam version.

The Met-Cam trains did have better traction motors though, the BREL ones have had to be partially retractioned

A shame the eyeball vents don't work now, quite a unique feature

 

[raetiamann]

I haven't done a rail journey since before lockdown, in fact my last journey was in February, so just now I'd really like to go somewhere on any train. The ones I used to try to avoid were Northern's Pacers.

 

[507021]

I haven't done a rail journey since before lockdown, in fact my last journey was in February, so just now I'd really like to go somewhere on any train. The ones I used to try to avoid were Northern's Pacers.

You won't have to worry about those as there's hardly any left in service now.

Thankfully the few shocking, dreadful heaps which are left will be gone from the north sooner rather than later.

 

[86247]

I would be happy getting anything be a 142 or the dreaded 150/1 or 2 , as I've been no where since the 30th of January really missing not going out.

 

[507021]

I would be happy getting anything be a 142 or the dreaded 150/1 or 2 , as I've been no where since the 30th of January really missing not going out.

As much as I'm no fan of either class, I have to agree with you.

 

[Anonymous10]

I would be happy getting anything be a 142 or the dreaded 150/1 or 2 , as I've been no where since the 30th of January really missing not going out.

Same any train sounds good right now

 

[Ashley Hill]

I would be happy getting anything be a 142 or the dreaded 150/1 or 2 , as I've been no where since the 30th of January really missing not going out.

I always liked working 150/1s. Their inward swinging local door took me away to my DMU days when away from the cameras if you know what I mean.

 

[spotify95]

I'd personally say EMR's 222 "Meridian" trains.
They're overly cramped and congested (4 coaches on some, 5 coaches on most, and the few that are 7 coaches have 3 full first class coaches).
They're in dire need of modernization - the state of some of the interiors is quite poor.
The interiors are quite noisy (due to the engines in each coach) compared to the Class 43s that are also on the Midland Mainline.
The seats are not that comfortable and some seats have no window space at all.
They also have a serious design fault whereby the windows have some sort of metal screening: as a result, you can't get FM, DAB, 3G or 4G through (as a result, the Wi-Fi is overloaded and just doesn't work).
Hopefully the 222s can find use with another operator when we get new 810s (plus whatever electrics they're using from London - Corby when the new timetable comes out) on the MML.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

One of the most uncomfortable journeys I ever did by train was from Doncaster to Cambridge in the 1970's via Lincoln and the old Spalding - March line. This was in an old DMU, not sure what class, and it rocked about so much I was in very serious danger of a technicolor yawn by the end. The root cause of the problem was the high speed the train was travelling at. I was en route to a job interview (not at the University I hasten to add) at which I was still feeling ill. Needless to say I was unsuccessful.

 

[Turtle]

The worst journey I've ever had was actually on a 377. Now I must add that in its defense, it was an abnormally bad experience, and the unit in question didn't seem to be very healthy (we broke down at Southbourne, Crawley and Gatwick), even though I'm really not a fan of Electrostars generally.
Was on a Southampton - Victoria service, and coming up through the Arun valley was... exciting. The thing was lurching and banging all over the place, to the point that things were falling off the tables. You couldn't stand up it was shaking around so much. Didn't help that after the first failure at Southbourne the aircon went down and never came back. We started pulling away, there was a clonk, it stopped taking power, the lights flickered and the PIS reset. Happened a couple of times until it managed to get going.
377s seem to ride particularly roughly through that stretch (Arundel through Crawley), but this was something else. Also once we got onto the fast after Gatwick, it seemed to be trying its hardest to shake itself apart getting up to 90. There was a horrible rattling noise coming from somewhere, and it seemed to accelerate in bursts, followed by some juddering, then another surge of speed. Definitely wasn't a healthy unit. At least it made it back to Victoria.

Interior wise, I can't stand anything with IC70 seats, since they make my back ache - I'd genuinely prefer an ironing board. The Great Northern 317s were interesting, where if you leaned forwards in just the wrong way, half the time the seat cushion would fall off the frame.

The worst overall class of train I've been on for me would probably have to be a tossup between 317s and Southern's 455s.

Bit unfair to the 377s. I commuted 37 miles each way on these for 5 years without any complaints. Smooth ride, good acceleration, air-conditioning, firm but comfortable seats, good legroom (33" inside leg). Whats not to like!

 

[mightyena]

I remember using a GN 317 back in 2016 where I boarded, sat down, leaned forward and fell off the seat as it was loose.

Later on, I went to the loo and nearly tripped on some sort of ceiling panel/light fitting that was lying on the floor.

The icing on the cake was the entire toilet seat being detached from the toilet, so I sat down and that proceeded to slide all over the place!

I think that was the most comically bad train I've used.

I think that was the default state of GN's 317s. They were like that back in 2006 when they were still in WAGN purple, and only went downhill from there.

Bit unfair to the 377s. I commuted 37 miles each way on these for 5 years without any complaints. Smooth ride, good acceleration, air-conditioning, firm but comfortable seats, good legroom (33" inside leg). Whats not to like!

Hasn't been my experience of them at all. I mean they're okay, but some of the earlier examples are really feelling their age...

Air conditioning is good, but that's pretty standard these days.
Legroom is fine, but the alarming creaking noise from the seats isn't.
Smooth ride? Hard disagree. Everywhere I've used them, they've been the roughest riding units out of the options:

South coast - 444s/450s are much smoother.
MML/south London - both 700s and 319s felt smoother than the 377/5s
Arun Valley - I'll have to catch a 700 along there to compare, it could just be that the track there is particularly poor, but it's a really rough ride on a 377.
The 379s were fine in the ride quality department though.

 

[ed1971]

I have only travelled on trains a couple of times since February due to the pandemic. The trains that I would rate the worst in 2020 are the Class 150s due to the claustrophobic interior and engine noise akin to a 1960s lorry. I would also suggest 390s because of their tiny windows.

 

[E27007]

The Thameslink 700s, everywhere grey and lit by cold blue LED lighting, a passenger interior which is devoid of any warmth or human touch. Were the interiors styled by a depressive on the verge of suicide?

 

[86247]

I've never been on a 700 or even seen one yet due to covid are they really that bad inside.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never been on a 700 or even seen one yet due to covid are they really that bad inside.

They're basic, but I don't mind them that much, they're no worse than any other suburban train, really. Quite spacious feeling too, and well built (being Desiros). Pretty much what you'd expect from a German style S-Bahn train, but not so good for Bedford to Brighton.

 

[py_megapixel]

Pretty much what you'd expect from a German style S-Bahn train

I think that really depends on your definitions. Most S-Bahn stock in my experience has low-backed seats with a reasonably generous amount of padding, and less standing room. Thameslink have gone for high-backed seats, but there's fewer of them and they are much less comfortable.

 

[Efini92]

Class 195 or 331
They were built to replace the pacers and that’s exactly what they have done. A modern day pacer with exceptionally poor build quality.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Class 195 or 331
They were built to replace the pacers and that’s exactly what they have done. A modern day pacer with exceptionally poor build quality.

They're more a poor man's 170 in my view, i.e. on the cheap.

 

[Journeyman]

They're basic, but I don't mind them that much, they're no worse than any other suburban train, really. Quite spacious feeling too, and well built (being Desiros). Pretty much what you'd expect from a German style S-Bahn train, but not so good for Bedford to Brighton.

Yeah, they're good for crowd shifting, and although a tad spartan, they do the job with reasonable efficiency. I very much doubt anyone does Brighton to Bedford regularly anyway.

 

[py_megapixel]

Class 195 or 331
They were built to replace the pacers and that’s exactly what they have done. A modern day pacer with exceptionally poor build quality.

I'm sure you don't need me to explain why that's an entirely ridiculous comparison...

 

[Julia]

One of the most uncomfortable journeys I ever did by train was from Doncaster to Cambridge in the 1970's via Lincoln and the old Spalding - March line. This was in an old DMU, not sure what class, and it rocked about so much I was in very serious danger of a technicolor yawn by the end. The root cause of the problem was the high speed the train was travelling at. I was en route to a job interview (not at the University I hasten to add) at which I was still feeling ill. Needless to say I was unsuccessful.

The Cravens units that ended up in East Anglia certainly fit that description. My memory is that they always *felt* like they were being driven hard because of the noise, rattles and high levels of bounce... they were very wisely disposed of before the MetCams in the mid 1980s.

 

[Efini92]

They're more a poor man's 170 in my view, i.e. on the cheap.

Cheap is definitely what they went for. It’s like asking Homer Simpson to build a train.

I'm sure you don't need me to explain why that's an entirely ridiculous comparison...

They were built on the cheap like the pacer. I don’t see what’s ridiculous about it. I can’t see them lasting 5 years let alone 3 years.

 

[py_megapixel]

They were built on the cheap like the pacer. I don’t see what’s ridiculous about it. I can’t see them lasting 5 years let alone 3 years.

Yes, but nowhere near as "on the cheap" as Pacers. The passenger experience on 195 is light years ahead of a 142. This is because a 195 is a modern design of train, and a 142 was a glorified version of an already-outdated design of bus

They have proper carriages with proper seats and proper doors in a proper layout with proper facilities for wheelchair users and proper effort put into the design. Pacers have none of these things.

Pacers were only built to last a decade or so, and have ended up in service for 35 years or more. This means that the 195s have been built to last almost as long as the Pacers - notorious for one of the longest overstays of welcome ever seen on the railway - actually ended up in service.

 

[Efini92]

Yes, but nowhere near as "on the cheap" as Pacers. The passenger experience on 195 is light years ahead of a 142.

They have proper carriages with proper seats and proper doors in a proper layout with proper facilities for wheelchair users and proper effort put into the design. Pacers have none of these things.

At least with the pacers everything worked (most of the time) and nothing ever came off in my hands.

 

[py_megapixel]

At least with the pacers everything worked (most of the time)

Did "everything work" for people in wheelchairs? Or for the people on the tracks who had to put up with the lack of retention tanks? Or on sweltering hot days with no air con? I could go on.

The Pacers were outdated when introduced - which is not to say they were a bad idea, I'm aware of their benefit to many lines which were at risk of closure, it just means they shouldn't have been in service very long. The 195s have actually been designed to stay in service for a reasonable length of time.

and nothing ever came off in my hands.

Do you literally mean that?
(FWIW I've had seat cushions on some of the worse maintained Pacers and Sprinters actually come off in my hands)

 

[Efini92]

Did "everything work" for people in wheelchairs? Or for the people on the tracks who had to put up with the lack of retention tanks? Or on sweltering hot days with no air con? I could go on.

The Pacers were outdated when introduced - which is not to say they were a bad idea, I'm aware of their benefit to many lines which were at risk of closure, it just means they shouldn't have been in service very long. The 195s have actually been designed to stay in service for a reasonable length of time.


Do you literally mean that?
(FWIW I've had seat cushions on some of the worse maintained Pacers and Sprinters actually come off in my hands)

DDA standards were pretty much none existent in the 80’s.

Yes I literally meant that. In the short space of time 195/331’s have been around I’ve had emergency engine shut down mushroom come off in my hands.
Brake handles that won’t go into emergency.
Windscreen wipers falling off.
cab doors coming open because the locks are so poor.
Windscreens cracking through vibrations.
The list goes on.....