That’s a lot of tests - is there the capacity for that?
I'm sure I read we've got at least 100k tests per day that aren't being used, so maybe?
That’s a lot of tests - is there the capacity for that?
It was hundreds of thousands returning from France wasn’t it?How many people go into quarantine per day?
It isn’t done purely on the current numbers, it looks at direction of travel, containment etc etc.I think there are probably some countries it would be worth quarantining. What isn't worth it is doing so on the basis of a fairly minimal difference between their figures and ours, and worst of all constantly chopping and changing who is on the list while loads of people are actually there on holiday. 5 days notice on arrivals from somewhere with a developing regional situation isn't going to make any real difference in terms of the spread of the virus. Making people play a cruel game of cat and mouse where the forfeit is that they end up returning from a wrecked holiday to financial ruin, that's not the sort of behaviour that makes people inclined to play ball when they are making guest lists for a party
Government said 160k people in France, so not even "hundreds of thousands". And if most got back, it would have been a few tens of thousands in quarantine. A drop in the ocean compared to the 150k+ tests being carried out daily. So totally doable. But of course Project Fear relies on not doing anything that might undermine Project Fear.It was hundreds of thousands returning from France wasn’t it?
How about testing everyone who's quarantining? That would show how pointless it is, or isn't.
this project fear conspiracy....who...and why?!Government said 160k people in France, so not even "hundreds of thousands". And if most got back, it would have been a few tens of thousands in quarantine. A drop in the ocean compared to the 150k+ tests being carried out daily. So totally doable. But of course Project Fear relies on not doing anything that might undermine Project Fear.
i think the suggestion I saw was a test at the airport and then another a few days later.Testing at day 5 allowing release is under consideration (and it may well be workable for people to take 2 weeks off and have a 9 day holiday plus that 5 day wait instead of a full 2 week holiday). The problem with testing at the airport on the way in is that if they caught it that day it likely wouldn't have developed yet to the extent of causing a positive PCR test so it'd be missed. However on balance this may provide enough mitigation and would allow tourism to properly restart.
Out of interest, what's yours?Let’s go back to basics - what is your plan?
Project Fear would be the ongoing campaign of utterly open and scientifically increasingly-poorly-supported announcements by the government and official channels that we are all doomed and must take drastic action to avoid killing everybody's granny. Nobody else mentioned a conspiracy - I'm assuming you only mentioned as a spot of whataboutery to belittle somebody else's argument.=this project fear conspiracy....who...and why?!
Get the schools open, and only close in exceptional circumstance.Out of interest, what's yours?
Project Fear does rather sound like an accusation of conspiracy, almost by definition.Project Fear would be the ongoing campaign of utterly open and scientifically increasingly-poorly-supported announcements by the government and official channels that we are all doomed and must take drastic action to avoid killing everybody's granny. Nobody else mentioned a conspiracy - I'm assuming you only mentioned as a spot of whataboutery to belittle somebody else's argument.=
To be fair this isn't hugely far away from where most people on the thread/forum seem to be. Little bit harder on the quarantine perhaps, but I think that's more a matter of emphasis and implementation than anything else.Get the schools open, and only close in exceptional circumstance.
Otherwise be open but cautious til we know more about how transmission works (so contact tracing as research as well as prevention), restrictions localised, including travel bans if necessary.
Masks only on public transport except in local problem areas, not in shops everywhere.
Quarantine as default, unless destination is very safe (Though the double test to reduce time, as long as traveller pays)
Pretty much as current but trace trace trace.
Only those who don't believe it refer to it as a conspiracy. I suggest you ask the SAGE psychologists who were/are the driving force.this project fear conspiracy....who...and why?!
So Project Fear is actually just press sensationalism and noisy folk on social media, and not actually the government or policy makers?Only those who don't believe it refer to it as a conspiracy. I suggest you ask the SAGE psychologists who were/are the driving force.
Think about all the hysterical reporting from Bournemouth beach - no spike, no hospital influx, no deaths. Similarly for BLM events, nothing. Similarly the prophecies about second waves - due last week or the week before?
Road deaths now outnumber Covid deaths most days. But heaven forbid the media report on death numbers the day after a zero deaths day - "deaths increase by infinity!".
People are behaving like Covid is Ebola. It's not, it's equivalent to a bad flu year.
No, it comes from government (SAGE) via the messaging to scare us into compliance with the endless rules. The media love it of course - sensational headlines sell papers/generate clicks. After weeks of "save lives" messaging and endless death figures (bearing in mind that Facebook Karens think nobody ever dies and are oblivious to the UK daily death figure of around 1700) we were softened up for masks. Trains first, then crank up the fear factor to shops. Meanwhile deaths were plummeting. When we have a zero death day, it doesn't even register in the media!So Project Fear is actually just press sensationalism and noisy folk on social media, and not actually the government or policy makers?
ps I am not sure you would notice a Bournemouth Beach Spike as it would be spread over a wide area, and wouldnt reach spike proportions from one day outside (you would only get one step in a chain and how many could one person infect on a beach?)
The Bournemouth spike panic wasn’t SAGE, or the government, it was just locals rightly concerned about crowding, and rabid social media.
Again, the accusation just doesn’t fit the people involved - the Tories hate restricting freedom like this due to their libertarianism and/or need to be popular.
Has anyone heard any rumours of which country is going to be taken off "the safe list" next?
I'd imagine that Boris has a giant wheel of foturne that he uses to decide
We have some students at our uni who are coming from Switzerland and would be required to quarantine in Scotland, instead they've decided to go on a 2 week jolly around England to see the sights and escape the self-inflicted house arrest had they willingly chosen to stay in Scotland.Wouldn't be surprised if the other three nations follow Scotland's lead in adding Switzerland to the list this week. Of course this is just speculation.
We have some students at our uni who are coming from Switzerland and would be required to quarantine in Scotland, instead they've decided to go on a 2 week jolly around England to see the sights and escape the self-inflicted house arrest had they willingly chosen to stay in Scotland.
This rule is absolute madness, and it's quite frankly awful that it's being imposed differently in different administrations to create these anomalies, people's livelihoods are at stake here and the governments feel like they can just play around with that under the guise of protecting us, I've had enough of it.
Frankly so do I.I bet Bozza and Hancock wish that pandemic response was a reserved (i.e. non-devolved) matter...
Frankly so do I.
We are one island, it makes sense for us to follow one approach, whether that be herd immunity, elimination, hammer and dance (that's a discussion for another thread). In Scotland she is insistent on elimination and she won't open us up fully until we have, but for as long as England is not following this approach, elimination is, in my view, simply impossible.
I'd say only the ministerial-level comms have been better in the nations, although ministers making stuff up on the hoof has made it really difficult to look good more generally. Worth noting on the topic of quarantine though that it's been pressure from the nations which has led to some of the craziest short-notice cut-offs. The fact that Westminster has still copped the blame just goes to show how uniquely awful the current cabinet are at being ministers.I agree the disjointed approach just hasn’t served us well. One might have thought the politicians would be able to work together at a time of national crisis and come to some form of consensus, but it wasn’t to be.
It doesn’t help that the implications are imbalanced between the four nations as the economic costs are more borne by the Westminster government than the devolved ones.
Certainly going forward this needs to be looked at. Having said that the comms coming out of Wales and Scotland have been light years ahead of Johnson, even if one disregards what the actual policies have been.
Elimination is impossible full stop irrespective of the approach.Frankly so do I.
We are one island, it makes sense for us to follow one approach, whether that be herd immunity, elimination, hammer and dance (that's a discussion for another thread). In Scotland she is insistent on elimination and she won't open us up fully until we have, but for as long as England is not following this approach, elimination is, in my view, simply impossible.
Absolutely. Despite what Sturgeon thinks in her perfect world.Elimination is impossible full stop irrespective of the approach.
The only way it would be possible is for every single person on the planet to stay in one place for <insert number> of days/weeks/months (a bit like one may do with an infected computer and has happened with animal diseases before, such as foot and mouth) and is likely what some scientists would hanker for. Of course, there are many reasons why this isn't in any way practical from a human perspectiveElimination is impossible full stop irrespective of the approach.
Foot and mouth isn't eliminated, it comes around every now and then.The only way it would be possible is for every single person on the planet to stay in one place for <insert number> of days/weeks/months (a bit like one may do with an infected computer and has happened with animal diseases before, such as foot and mouth) and is likely what some scientists would hanker for. Of course, there are many reasons why this isn't in any way practical from a human perspective
The only way it would be possible is for every single person on the planet to stay in one place for <insert number> of days/weeks/months (a bit like one may do with an infected computer and has happened with animal diseases before, such as foot and mouth) and is likely what some scientists would hanker for. Of course, there are many reasons why this isn't in any way practical from a human perspective