It is their job, the issue isn't that people can't remember all of the things, the issue is they're unprepared to ask or check the book because it's too much like hard work, so they go into fobbing off mode to get rid of the passenger rather than doing their job. It's OK to not know everything, even if you've been doing it decades, but how you handle that situation makes the difference.
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RTVs rejected at station
- Thread starter Mathieu
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R
RailUK Forums
Yes, I do, it is their job.
Passengers are expected to buy the correct ticket: I expect the railway - which means ticket office staff - to sell it (explaining any peculiar restrictions/requirements).
If it is considered acceptable for staff not to sell the correct ticket, then it must also be acceptable for passengers not to have it - but I doubt that reason would go down well if inspected...
I got told “who works here...me or you?” by the staff member when I told them about the check code thing at Oban station. Is there anymore information on this so I can show them this?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Another member of staff who is justifying the closure of ticket offices.
Why does this sort of petty and ill-informed arrogance persist? They are literally wishing their jobs away.
It wouldn't be hard for him to have said "Oh, I'd not heard of that, give me 5 minutes while I give my manager a call and check that".
Not an ounce of surprise at that attitude sadly. I'd likely have wanted to reply with "Neither, it seems" but would have probably managed to refrain.
Worst thing is that ScotRail customer service will do nothing about it, they’ll log my complaint and that’ll be the end of it. Won’t go any further
In most other jobs that would be disciplinary if not sackable.
It really, really wouldn't. And that's why employment law exists in a nutshell.
Employment law does not exist in order to protect staff who are being rude to their customers. Employment law would not have the slightest bearing on whether or not this proceeded as disciplinary.
In my line of work, I would expect to receive a formal warning or termination of employment if I spoke to a member of the public like this. I have had colleagues to whom this has happened.
RJ
Established Member
You'd be surprised - certain stations I work at the locals are exceptionally sharp with rail product knowledge.
The training never ends. Half the job is having product knowledge and keeping it up to date, the other half is knowing how to look up the things you don't know. Having some level of research skill is necessary to do the role, but the industry doesn't recognise this so doesn't test for that competency.
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One of the big problems is, I think, there’s some embarrassment
of not knowing how to do things. You can be shown something in training and then never come across the ticket for years and naturally you just forget!
Something that I would like to see is a CMS (Competency Management System) in place to make sure that staff are assessed to make sure they are continually competent.
Believe it or not you’ll find this isn’t in place at most TOC’s. It’s all too easy to blame the staff on the frontline (don’t get me wrong, justified sometimes) but the failings start from the top downwards. Station Managers? You’ll find they aren’t trained on how to issue tickets, and are just basically there to “manage”
When I worked in a ticket office, I was very lucky, because I worked with a very experienced member of staff that knew everything about tickets and they passed on their knowledge to me, if I didn’t know something they would show me.
It must have taken over 12 months after training to be asked to issue a Sleeper ticket, good job I remembered! But I remember being asked to do Ferry to Ireland as part of ticket and was clueless because it had been so long, so I had to phone another station!
Going back to the OP, one of the major issues (especially when cash handling is involved) is accepting something that you shouldn’t, you’ll get questioned by Retail Accounts, I remember having to take a loss because of mistake I made, issuing something that maybe I shouldn’t have accepted but I thought was good customer service (it was a Warrant) but it obviously wasn’t! So staff understatedly don’t want to make these decisions as there’s always a fear of those above.
of not knowing how to do things. You can be shown something in training and then never come across the ticket for years and naturally you just forget!
Something that I would like to see is a CMS (Competency Management System) in place to make sure that staff are assessed to make sure they are continually competent.
Believe it or not you’ll find this isn’t in place at most TOC’s. It’s all too easy to blame the staff on the frontline (don’t get me wrong, justified sometimes) but the failings start from the top downwards. Station Managers? You’ll find they aren’t trained on how to issue tickets, and are just basically there to “manage”
When I worked in a ticket office, I was very lucky, because I worked with a very experienced member of staff that knew everything about tickets and they passed on their knowledge to me, if I didn’t know something they would show me.
It must have taken over 12 months after training to be asked to issue a Sleeper ticket, good job I remembered! But I remember being asked to do Ferry to Ireland as part of ticket and was clueless because it had been so long, so I had to phone another station!
Going back to the OP, one of the major issues (especially when cash handling is involved) is accepting something that you shouldn’t, you’ll get questioned by Retail Accounts, I remember having to take a loss because of mistake I made, issuing something that maybe I shouldn’t have accepted but I thought was good customer service (it was a Warrant) but it obviously wasn’t! So staff understatedly don’t want to make these decisions as there’s always a fear of those above.
I take it you have less than two years’ service and/or are not in a heavily unionized workforce then.
In any event, a scenario like this is one person’s word against the other’s, and where a customer is complaining they were not offered what they wanted, they will naturally describe the staff member as rude or unhelpful, so those reviewing such complaints will likely discount most of the complaint unless there is independent evidence and/or a pattern.
Haywain
Veteran Member
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It is often those experienced members of staff who are the problem, passing on their lack of experience.
That is possible, even likely, unless there is an existing trail of similar complaints against the same individual.
You are wrong.
I have worked in a 'heavily unionised' environment for over twenty years but my employers expect the highest levels of efficiency and courtesy to customers at all times.
I deliver this and would expect to be fired if I acted in the way described above.
Only if there was corroborating evidence I hope, I would be worried if you could be fired based on a single unverified customer complaint.
RJ
Established Member
Things are different on the railways. Not everyone working on it sees it as a service industry. The reality is a lot of managers are busy dealing with more fundamental issues like staff attendance, covering shifts, ensuring station infrastructure is maintained and passing audits.
Customer complaints can take weeks to filter through from Customer Services. Any wrongdoing can be easily denied, is hard to prove and quite a lot of the workforce will go off sick for 6 months on full pay if a manager so much as looks at them the wrong way. It's sometimes considered more hassle than its worth to investigate them.
Certain TOCs also employ a "customer is always wrong" culture and are not interested if a customer so much as intimates that one of their staff has done something incorrect.
I'm not saying it's right, but it is reality and expectations should be set accordingly.
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Andy Pacer
Established Member
Yes, I had a similar problem with LNER vouchers at Nuneaton station and was given little choice but to pay for my ticket.
Of course...
Now tried to buy a ticket at the same station and got a load of verbal abuse at Oban, using a ScotRail RTV for a ticket. Said to the guy behind the office that it says in the handbook how to put them in manually. He blew up and told me that I can’t travel, he eventually gave me my ticket that I payed for by card. His reason for not putting it in manually was due to too much fraud happening but I assume this is just another flat out lie?
I vaguely remember it being mentioned that some stations have been told not take them for this reason.
Then whoever is telling them this needs to be dealt with accordingly.
it’s all well and good saying there’s lots of fraud about but that isn’t the passenger’s problem.
RJ
Established Member
It is if it means ticket offices won't process them.
Honestly, if a TOC offered me another option for compensation like a cheque or bank transfer, I'd just take it. Vouchers are less liquid and life experience teaches that railway IT struggles with check digits. I wouldn't bother with them.
I can't remember the details, it possibly only applied to one ticket office. But I remember someone posted that they had a situation where a third-party ticket office said something like that they had been told not to accept certain other TOC(s?) RTVs.
Why should they have struggles with the railway in the first place?
When the railway lets them down, consistently, why should they change the way they operate just to please the railway? They say the railway is run entirely for the benefit of the railway and this certainly backs up that view.
The OP seems to have consistent ongoing 'issues' with Scotrail. 'Issues' that we could probably estimate that 99.9% of other customers just do not, and never will, have.
As we have seen on this forum in the past with the poster from Southend some people deliberately have and exacerbate problems with the railway for whatever reason.
Is it better to solve the problems where the railway is denying a passenger their rights, or should it just be ignored so they can just carry on doing whatever they want, making up rules and in many cases increasing profits for their employer / themselves ?
RJ
Established Member
Really and truly, there shouldn't be these issues with vouchers.
But I learned a long time ago that for an easier life, you adjust your expectations to match the reality and plan accordingly.
But I learned a long time ago that for an easier life, you adjust your expectations to match the reality and plan accordingly.
Reading some of their other threads, including 'hypothetical' threads I have come to my opinion. Others may disagree with my opinion as is their valid opinion.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/missing-last-connection-due-to-full-train.207024/ - Can I force Scotrail to pay a 93 mile taxi based on my opinion?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/toc-claims-ticket-is-tampered-with.206952/ - 6 months ago I used a Scotrail train with a strangely filled ticket and they didn't accept it
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-cancelling-services.202377/#post-4494537 - Are Scotrail allowed to cancel services (lockdown was announced later that day)
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