Aviation Discussion

[Domh245]

Indeed, although at least there's still going to be a flypast from CIVY before continuing to St Athan (frustratingly I only heard it flying overhead whilst circling back because of the low cloud cover here as well)

 

[The_Train]

I am by no means an aviation fan but just been watching Big Jet TV on YouTube and have to say it was a very poignant moment witnessing the fly by. Whether a fan or not, everyone knows the 747 so its sad to think we will see no more in BA colours

 

[Royston Vasey]

Both just left off 27R. They’d originally planned for simultaneous take offs from 27R and 27L but the weather was miserable.

CIVB (in the 1970s Negus livery) was my last BA 747 and probably my last ever 747 a year ago... seems a long time ago now. It was unrefurbished (World Traveller and WT Plus cabins 20 years old!) and ready for the bin, but the "Hi-J" ones that had been refurbished mainly for the JFK route were still among their best in terms of passenger experience. Sad day.

News yesterday that IVB could be preserved at Kemble.

 

[Domh245]

News yesterday that IVB could be preserved at Kemble.

If it ever makes it down! CIVB has been in a holding pattern at Kemble for about an hour now

 

[FrodshamJnct]

If it ever makes it down! CIVB has been in a holding pattern at Kemble for about an hour now

Yep, still holding at 7,000 feet to the east of the airfield.

 

[The_Train]

If it ever makes it down! CIVB has been in a holding pattern at Kemble for about an hour now

Yep, still holding at 7,000 feet to the east of the airfield.

I don't understand aviation terminology but the guy on Big Jet TV kept mentioning the fact that Kemble doesn't have something (a 3 letter acronym) and because of the weather it could affect the ability to land the big birds there and they could end up at Cardiff. I guess the plan is to hold them until the weather improves, fuel permitting

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s just buzzed Brize Norton at 2000 ft and 100kts; heading for a flypast at Fairford now.

I don't understand aviation terminology but the guy on Big Jet TV kept mentioning the fact that Kemble doesn't have something (a 3 letter acronym) and because of the weather it could affect the ability to land the big birds there and they could end up at Cardiff. I guess the plan is to hold them until the weather improves, fuel permitting

One was always heading to St Athan (Cardiff) and has been there a while now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't understand aviation terminology but the guy on Big Jet TV kept mentioning the fact that Kemble doesn't have something (a 3 letter acronym) and because of the weather it could affect the ability to land the big birds there and they could end up at Cardiff. I guess the plan is to hold them until the weather improves, fuel permitting

ILS maybe? Instrument Landing System, the alternative to a visual approach.

 

[The_Train]

ILS maybe? Instrument Landing System, the alternative to a visual approach.

That's the one. Your explanation explains why it would be more favourable to land in these conditions with ILS available. Thanks for that

 

[Jamesrob637]

At least we'll still see a few A380s at LHR keeping proper planes there for a time.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

That's the one. Your explanation explains why it would be more favourable to land in these conditions with ILS available. Thanks for that

It’s now landed.

 

[Butts]

Had my first experience of Loganair at the weekend.

EDI-SOU out Sunday back Tuesday.

Their Mini Embraers are certainly quite aged but still did the journey in about an hour.

On the return leg the SOU-EDI flight was combined with the SOU-GLA service - luckily it landed in Edinburgh first. As I understand it after we got off in Edinburgh it was carrying on to Glasgow - talk about a short hop.

Only about 15 people on each of the legs. Fabled catering consisted of a Tunnocks Bar and a cup of water - even BA provided more than that.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Had my first experience of Loganair at the weekend.

EDI-SOU out Sunday back Tuesday.

Their Mini Embraers are certainly quite aged but still did the journey in about an hour.

On the return leg the SOU-EDI flight was combined with the SOU-GLA service - luckily it landed in Edinburgh first. As I understand it after we got off in Edinburgh it was carrying on to Glasgow - talk about a short hop.

Only about 15 people on each of the legs. Fabled catering consisted of a Tunnocks Bar and a cup of water - even BA provided more than that.

Not as short a hop as I've done - Manchester to Hawarden Airbus - 7 minutes in the air! A little longer on the return as we circled Liverpool and north of Manchester before making a final approach over Stockport.

 

[Khxds]

This amazing forum community have been enormously helpful in the past, so I wander if you wouls be able to help with a specific query.
I have very recently received flight cancellation emails well within the 14 days period that applies for EC/261. This was not a leisure trip for myself (though it is to a majority leisure destination in the Caribbean) but intended to facilitate the care of elderly relatives. Does anyone know if this regulation still apply to us given our transition? I also wondered if airlines could cite the pandemic to deny any claims?

The closest reason I can find is:

• the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure.

However, there have been no changes in lockdown measures for the destination and or the South East (flight was due to depart from Gatwick). Does anyone think recent restictions in the North East be able to be cited as a denial?

I also have never pursued such a claim before so have no idea how easier it is to submit a claim outside of the sponsored sites that apppear on google who I imagine then take a significant amount of anything awarded.

 

[miami]

Who's the flight with, from which airport, when is it due to take off, and what is the airline's solution?

 

[Khxds]

Who's the flight with, from which airport, when is it due to take off, and what is the airline's solution?

Evening, the flights were with British Airways from London Gatwick to Montego Bay, Jamaica for 17/10 which were cancelled by the airline on 07/10. Their attempt at an alternative were flights via the Dallas in the U.S. which according to GOV.UK, UK nationals are not permitted to enter if we have been in the UK or Schengen in the last 14 days. We would need to enter the U.S for this option as they do not offer a sterile transit. From memory, either the total flight time each way or the layover in Dallas was 23hrs. I didn't think to screenshoot/not the exact offer I'm sorry, but neither appear to meet the required
departure no more than two hours earlier and arrive no more than four hours later than scheduled.

 

[miami]

Clearly that alternate flight is no good at all

Air Canada looks like the only option for a through ticket departing on the 18th - flying via Toronto. I think transit is allowed, but it would be a 16 hour overnight layout airside at Toronto.

If you're OK flying to Kingston looks like BA are flying on the 16th or 19th to Kingston, you should have no problem if you phone BA with them moving you onto there.

If you're set on Montego Bay, I think Virgin are still running a flight on the 16th, it will be more difficult to get BA to put you on that flight.

As for EU261, as far as I can tell this is cancelled due to low demand, that isn't an 'extraordinary circumstance' as far as I'm concerned so they should compensate. It's unlikely they will accept it though.

If I were in your shoes, I'd concentrate on getting the best flight I could, then dealing with eu261 at a later time.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This amazing forum community have been enormously helpful in the past, so I wander if you wouls be able to help with a specific query.

You may wish to ask this question in the BAEC section on FlyerTalk too. @miami seems to have given good advice too.

 

[Butts]

Thank the Lord (but God knows why ) Italy has been spared the FCO "Hatchet"

Off to Verona from LHR Club Europe on Monday - for my Birthday with my Son.

Anyone know what we can expect in the Lounge and Onboard ?

Hoping for a bacon butty in the Lounge as onboard is a "bag job" as I understand it, washed down with a few Malts.

How sensible of Italy to offer free covid tests on arrival or locally as a condition of entry.

 

[Khxds]

Clearly that alternate flight is no good at all

Air Canada looks like the only option for a through ticket departing on the 18th - flying via Toronto. I think transit is allowed, but it would be a 16 hour overnight layout airside at Toronto.

If you're OK flying to Kingston looks like BA are flying on the 16th or 19th to Kingston, you should have no problem if you phone BA with them moving you onto there.

If you're set on Montego Bay, I think Virgin are still running a flight on the 16th, it will be more difficult to get BA to put you on that flight.

As for EU261, as far as I can tell this is cancelled due to low demand, that isn't an 'extraordinary circumstance' as far as I'm concerned so they should compensate. It's unlikely they will accept it though.

If I were in your shoes, I'd concentrate on getting the best flight I could, then dealing with eu261 at a later time.

You may wish to ask this question in the BAEC section on FlyerTalk too. @miami seems to have given good advice too.

Many thanks to you both! I shall explore both options.

 

[FQTV]

Alex Cruz has been replaced as CEO at British Airways with immediate effect, according to this morning’s release from parent International Airlines Group:

International Airlines Group (IAG) is today announcing changes to its senior management team with immediate effect.

• Alex Cruz, British Airways chairman and chief executive, is to step down as chief executive and remain the airline’s non-executive chairman.
• Sean Doyle, Aer Lingus chairman and chief executive, will become the new chief executive of British Airways and take over as chairman after a transition period.
• Fernando Candela, LEVEL chief executive, is joining the Group’s management committee in a new role of chief transformation officer.
• At Aer Lingus, Donal Moriarty, currently the airline’s chief corporate affairs officer, will become interim chief executive. A permanent appointment will be announced in due course.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Alex Cruz has been replaced as CEO at British Airways with immediate effect, according to this morning’s release from parent International Airlines Group:

The new Chief Exec of IAG shaking things up already I see.

 

[najaB]

Air Canada looks like the only option for a through ticket departing on the 18th - flying via Toronto. I think transit is allowed, but it would be a 16 hour overnight layout airside at Toronto.

I'm not sure that Canada does airside transfers. When I travelled EDI-YYZ-BGI a couple years ago I had to clear customs and immigration at YYZ.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Alex Cruz has been replaced as CEO at British Airways with immediate effect, according to this morning’s release from parent International Airlines Group:

Huge news. Cruz has overseen some of the most cynical and scroogeworthy cuts imaginable at a full service airline ("cost cutting is in our DNA") and some terrible periods of industrial relations (but with BA it was ever thus). Financially though, he has consistently delivered profits and left the airline in a pretty healthy long-term shape and fairly well equipped to weather the current storm.

However, away from the shareholders, I'm sure few frequent flyers or staff will mourn his passing.

 

[gsnedders]

I'm not sure that Canada does airside transfers. When I travelled EDI-YYZ-BGI a couple years ago I had to clear customs and immigration at YYZ.

There's airside transfer for international to international at YYZ. Can't comment about any current restrictions, however.

 

[WestCoast]

Huge news. Cruz has overseen some of the most cynical and scroogeworthy cuts imaginable at a full service airline ("cost cutting is in our DNA") and some terrible periods of industrial relations (but with BA it was ever thus). Financially though, he has consistently delivered profits and left the airline in a pretty healthy long-term shape and fairly well equipped to weather the current storm.

However, away from the shareholders, I'm sure few frequent flyers or staff will mourn his passing.

Indeed, but I'm not sure anything would have been drastically different on the service front. Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I still think that BA does look after frequent flyers reasonably well. I'm Silver which isn't all that hard to achieve and I get lounge access, priority boarding and they try to hold the seat next to me free. I would get none of those benefits if I acheived the same mid-level status on Lufthansa, Air France or KLM. I have also often paid fares that are priced the same or lower than the equivalent on easyJet. I understand that many are still unhappy with the lack of free catering on short-haul economy (although in the latter years this was something very modest like a biscuit) but after Covid I doubt it will return. I've also flown long-haul on BA in the back of economy and to be honest I didn't find it much different to flying the equivalent on Emirates.

 

[najaB]

Indeed, but I'm not sure anything would have been drastically different on the service front. Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I still think that BA does look after frequent flyers reasonably well.

A pretty fair representation of the facts. BA is, pretty much like the country it represents, no longer the airline of Empire (BA can trace its Speedbird callsign to Imperial Airways). It's a pretty middle-of-the-road airline from pretty middle-of-the-road country. They both have to recognise that, while they have a history of which they can be justly proud, the centre of global power and money has shifted East and now they're just "one of the rest".

 

[Tetchytyke]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I still think that BA does look after frequent flyers reasonably well. I'm Silver which isn't all that hard to achieve and I get lounge access, priority boarding and they try to hold the seat next to me free.

BAEC still has value, definitely. But if you don't have BAEC then you can forget it, which wouldn't really encourage new people to use the carrier. That said, looking after your regulars is the first thing in business, and BA do manage that.

I've also flown long-haul on BA in the back of economy and to be honest I didn't find it much different to flying the equivalent on Emirates.

Interesting. My experience of Emirates is limited, but that the soft product is generally good, but the hard product is meh. 10-abreast on a 777 is no fun at all, no matter how good the telly is, but the A380s are wonderful. But all airlines are gradually moving towards paid extras; leaving aside seat choices, the celebration honeymoon cake Emirates supplied for free to me in 2016 will now cost US$40 to arrange.

 

[WestCoast]

A pretty fair representation of the facts. BA is, pretty much like the country it represents, no longer the airline of Empire (BA can trace its Speedbird callsign to Imperial Airways). It's a pretty middle-of-the-road airline from pretty middle-of-the-road country. They both have to recognise that, while they have a history of which they can be justly proud, the centre of global power and money has shifted East and now they're just "one of the rest".

Sure, although not all the Eastern carriers are that outstanding, you've got Cathay, Qatar and Singapore which are all amazing. However, I've flown Air China who were pretty dire and Hainan who were average at best (although supposedly 5 star). I don't believe any of the Indian airlines are that highly commended either.

As for European competition, I find KLM bang average as well although I might rate them more highly if I hadn't had so much disruption with them due to fog in Amsterdam, including last January when it took me 3 days coming home from Istanbul with them.

BAEC still has value, definitely. But if you don't have BAEC then you can forget it, which wouldn't really encourage new people to use the carrier. That said, looking after your regulars is the first thing in business, and BA do manage that.

I think nowadays most casual flyers (including people with larger budgets) especially on short-haul are looking for price and availability - they won't go out their way to fly one carrier or another. People jump on Skyscanner and it tells them who they should be flying with. If you want to go from Inverness to Madrid or Belfast to Bucharest without buying separate tickets, you've got a good chance of BA being one of your best options. Maybe it's a bit different on London - New York in business class with loads of decent options but BA is investing in that offering too

Closer to home, I've found that BA were very often matching easyJet on Glasgow - Gatwick, which was a regular for me pre-covid. Let's face it no one is going to fly say Air France via Paris on that route. For many travellers, they basically didn't need to offer anything above easyJet in economy if the price was right. They introduced business class (Club Europe) on domestic routes so if you want (slightly) more space, food, champagne, BA still offer "the good old days" at a cost. Not sure if this route will ever return post-Covid though.

Interesting. My experience of Emirates is limited, but that the soft product is generally good, but the hard product is meh. 10-abreast on a 777 is no fun at all, no matter how good the telly is, but the A380s are wonderful. But all airlines are gradually moving towards paid extras; leaving aside seat choices, the celebration honeymoon cake Emirates supplied for free to me in 2016 will now cost US$40 to arrange.

There is never much agreement in these exercises as people value different things but I did 2 x long-hauls with BA and Emirates in 2017 both on their 777s and while I'd say the entertainment and food was better on Emirates (BA actually served a curry at 11.15am on one flight to the US!), BA was more comfy with 3-3-3, the drinks were more free flowing and the crew was less formal and more jovial which I prefer.

However, if you want my opinon on best then it's got to be Qatar. Flown economy and business with them and they are truly 5 star; no expense is spared on that airline, must be causing quite a dent in the Qatari Government's (deep) coffers.

 

[najaB]

Sure, although not all the Eastern carriers are that outstanding, you've got Cathay and Singapore which are both great. However, I've flown Air China who were pretty dire and Hainan who were average at best (although supposedly 5 star). I don't believe any of the Indian airlines are that highly commended either.

Oh, definitely. I didn't mean that all eastern airlines are good - some are, but many more of them are quite dire (some even unsafe!)