First Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and West Lothian operations)

[JumpinTrainz]

The Scania’s must be getting on a bit now. Any signs of them being replaced?

 

[Jordan Adam]

The Scania’s must be getting on a bit now. Any signs of them being replaced?

Given a good number of them have been repainted in the last few months i find it unlikely. The sister batch down on the south coast of England (36001-6) have all recently been withdrawn at short notice due to severe corrosion on them, however it seems the FSE batch are unaffected for the moment. The issue they have is that no route within the Midland Bluebird region except the UL is profitable enough to warrant new deckers, so the N94UD replacements will likely be younger deckers from another Opco rather than new vehicles.

 

[alexf380]

I believe most/all of the scania deckers had some work done for corrosion about 7 or 8 years ago. There's certainly a few photos on Flickr of them in Livingston depot in various states of repair and that was stated to be the reason.

 

[alphabravo43]

Given a good number of them have been repainted in the last few months i find it unlikely. The sister batch down on the south coast of England (36001-6) have all recently been withdrawn at short notice due to severe corrosion on them, however it seems the FSE batch are unaffected for the moment. The issue they have is that no route within the Midland Bluebird region except the UL is profitable enough to warrant new deckers, so the N94UD replacements will likely be younger deckers from another Opco rather than new vehicles.

It's hard to know what will replace them as there is a requirement for low height double deckers for some of the Balfron operating area. Beyond the 61 reg E400s in Glasgow, I'm not sure what else in the fleet could be cascaded from other areas.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

It's hard to know what will replace them as there is a requirement for low height double deckers for some of the Balfron operating area. Beyond the 61 reg E400s in Glasgow, I'm not sure what else in the fleet could be cascaded from other areas.

I know in recent years the low height E400s have strayed on to the 34/34A to help with capacity. Some still run around on the 6 but it’s mainly singles this route sees now.

Perhaps some of the hybrids could be sent to FSE but I would doubt it. Probably more singles cascaded over.

 

[Jordan Adam]

It's hard to know what will replace them as there is a requirement for low height double deckers for some of the Balfron operating area. Beyond the 61 reg E400s in Glasgow, I'm not sure what else in the fleet could be cascaded from other areas.

I know in recent years the low height E400s have strayed on to the 34/34A to help with capacity. Some still run around on the 6 but it’s mainly singles this route sees now.

Perhaps some of the hybrids could be sent to FSE but I would doubt it. Probably more singles cascaded over.

If the Omnidekkas can fit under then Glasgows 68/19 plate E400MMCs (or others of similar specification) will. The strange thing with the Busby Bridge in Glasgow is that the 61 plate E400s only just fit under, anything even slightly taller doesn't.

The 68/19 plate E400MMCs (13ft 10) are only actually 1 inch taller than the 61 plates E400s (13ft 9) and are 1 inch smaller than the Omnidekkas (13ft 11).

 

[Graham Alexand]

Given a good number of them have been repainted in the last few months i find it unlikely. The sister batch down on the south coast of England (36001-6) have all recently been withdrawn at short notice due to severe corrosion on them, however it seems the FSE batch are unaffected for the moment. The issue they have is that no route within the Midland Bluebird region except the UL is profitable enough to warrant new deckers, so the N94UD replacements will likely be younger deckers from another Opco rather than new vehicles.

Bear in mind that quite a few Ex West Lothian's Enviro400MMC's were painted in either 23 branding or NEW standard First Scotland East colours and were shortly after sent to First Glasgow so some of the Scania Omnidekka's could potentially be replaced even though having a recent repaint .

Edit at 19:19 on 28/01/2021

bustimes.org has quite a few West Lothian buses and more Midland Bluebird buses added, I've edited them so far but more may come.

 

[Volvodart]

First Bus Teams Up With Edinburgh Trams To Offer Better Connectivity For Passengers

https://www.firstgroup.com/south-ea...es/news/first-bus-teams-edinburgh-trams-offer

1FEB

First Bus Teams Up With Edinburgh Trams To Offer Better Connectivity For Passengers​

​

• First West Lothian team up with Edinburgh Trams to offer a through ticket on all of our services to link up with the tram at Ingliston Park & Ride, Gyle Centre and Edinburgh Park Station
• £4.50 ticket offers a value for money through journey connection via bus and tram with Edinburgh City Centre.
• Advice to all passengers is to check latest Scottish Government advice on essential travel guidelines in the area in advance of all journeys.

Local bus operator First West Lothian has teamed up with the Edinburgh Trams to provide customers with another direct link to Edinburgh City Centre via the new bus and tram through ticket.
Available exclusively on the award-winning First Bus App, the all new £4.50 Bus/Tram through ticket is available across all services on the West Lothian network meaning customers now have a convenient connection between their local bus service and the tram into the city centre.
Service 20 in particular offers passengers a drop off at the park and ride directly for quick and convenient access to the tram.
Alternatively, customers can still purchase the First day ticket for just £4.00 for the region (L&M) which gives access to all First West Lothian services including connections to Edinburgh City centre by bus alone. For example, with the day ticket customers can connect onto the X25, X24 and X38 straight into town.
First West Lothian Commercial Director Graeme Macfarlan said: “We want to make it as easy as possible for people who need to make essential journeys to get around and get to their destinations safely during these unprecedented times.
“We were asked to consider the introduction of a through bus and tram ticket that offered the same benefits as those offered by the previous operator, and so, in responding to the needs of our customers, we are delighted to be introducing a through ticket to replicate that offering.
“The hope is now that the customers utilise this offer and support these services once they are able to do so as Coronavirus lockdown restrictions ease again.”
Lea Harrison, Managing Director of Edinburgh Trams said: “We are delighted to be partnering with First West Lothian to allow their customers to seamlessly connect to the city centre by tram.
“We offer fast and frequent services which an easy interchange with First services at Ingliston Park & Ride, Gyle Centre and Edinburgh Park Station for Hermiston Gait.
“We encourage all customers to check our website for the latest timetables and travel advice.”
Transport and Environment Convener Councillor Lesley Macinnes said: “This new ticket will give passengers even more options for seamless, reliable travel by public transport between Edinburgh and West Lothian.
“Of course, people should only be making essential journeys by any mode of transport at the moment. But this joint offer from First West Lothian and Edinburgh Trams will be beneficial for communities served by both in the future.”
Find out more here: www.firstscotlandeast.com/tram

 

[route101]

I know in recent years the low height E400s have strayed on to the 34/34A to help with capacity. Some still run around on the 6 but it’s mainly singles this route sees now.

Perhaps some of the hybrids could be sent to FSE but I would doubt it. Probably more singles cascaded over.

The hybrids are off the road at the moment. I guess with Balfron, singles will be used.

 

[PG]

Noticed on BBC news website that unfortunately Larbert depot has staff down with Covid. t
Best wishes to all affected for a speedy recovery.
Its good to hear that other staff, who've been in contact with those affected and so have to isolate, are receiving full pay - well done to the company for doing that.

First Bus has confirmed eight staff have contracted Covid at its Larbert depot, just weeks after an outbreak in Bannockburn.
A company spokesperson said there was "no evidence of a link between cases".
Further measures have been introduced to restrict the spread of the virus at the depot, where about 300 people work.
Bus services are running at 87% of normal levels and passenger numbers have been reduced by half because of lockdown.
Staff who were in contact with colleagues that tested positive are self isolating on full pay.
Temperature checks have been introduced at the depot, with staff and visitors asked about symptoms on arrival.

Mods: Not sure if this is the right place for this so feel free to move to another thread or create a new one.

 

[GusB]

I'm sure we all wish those involved a speedy recovery. It's not helpful to speculate on how anyone caught the virus, and the discussion of masks etc. already has its own thread in the Covid section of the forum - please discuss it there.

 

[scosutsut]

First Bus Teams Up With Edinburgh Trams To Offer Better Connectivity For Passengers

https://www.firstgroup.com/south-ea...es/news/first-bus-teams-edinburgh-trams-offer

Whilst commendable from a passenger experience point of view, how does this deal work financially for First? They can't just decide their ticket is valid on the tram - presumably a not insignificant portion of that £4.50 is going to be getting paid to the trams?

Narrow margins already I would have thought?

 

[mb88]

Whilst commendable from a passenger experience point of view, how does this deal work financially for First? They can't just decide their ticket is valid on the tram - presumably a not insignificant portion of that £4.50 is going to be getting paid to the trams?

Narrow margins already I would have thought?

Yeah it seems a strange one to me. It says the ticket is available on all services across West Lothian where in actual fact it's only really any use to people using the 63/20. Why would someone get a bus from Livingston, Broxburn etc that is already going into Edinburgh city centre and change to the tram. Might make sense if a lot of folk were still working in the offices at Edinburgh Park just now, but I doubt many people from West Lothian want to go to Saughton or Balgreen.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Perhaps someone can enlighten me but LB has the contract to operate Edinburgh Trams on a separate "arms length" contract? Would Edinburgh Trams be obliged to offer the same connectivity to First as they do to LB, and on the same terms as the agreement with LB, less it be regarded as an unfair advantage?

Could that be the rationale?

 

[buslad1988]

Whilst commendable from a passenger experience point of view, how does this deal work financially for First? They can't just decide their ticket is valid on the tram - presumably a not insignificant portion of that £4.50 is going to be getting paid to the trams?

Narrow margins already I would have thought?

Would imagine this is more a publicity stunt than anything from the council/local councillor. There’s been a lot of press recently regarding locals on 20/63 moaning about losing connectivity since First took over those contracts.

Seems a quick fix for the council to arrange this and any sums involved. Although no doubt up take will be minimal (if at all).

 

[LiviCrazy]

Would imagine this is more a publicity stunt than anything from the council/local councillor. There’s been a lot of press recently regarding locals on 20/63 moaning about losing connectivity since First took over those contracts.

Seems a quick fix for the council to arrange this and any sums involved. Although no doubt up take will be minimal (if at all).

I note that One Ticket are also now saying that their passes cover the Tram too.

 

[overthewater]

The Larbert Depot had a number of Temp changes as of today: https://www.firstgroup.com/south-ea...e-updates/planned-changes/services-change-8th

Larbert Service Changes from 8th February​

The following services operated by our Larbert depot will operate from Monday 8th. Services not listed will continue to operate their current timetable. Please note that Sunday journeys remain unchanged.

Service	Click to view timetable	Detail of change
1	Click to view timetable	Service will operate every 20 minutes with earlier last journeys Monday-Saturday.
2	Click to view timetable	Minor timetable changes with earlier last journeys Monday-Saturday.
3/4	Click to view timetable	Service will operate a 30 minute frequency, with combined 15 minute frequency. Earlier last journeys Monday-Saturday
5	Click to view timetable	Service will operate every 30 minutes, with earlier last journeys Monday-Saturday.
6/6A	Click to view timetable	Revised route & timetable, operating every 30 minutes. Earlier last journeys Monday-Saturday.
7	No Timetable	Service suspended.
8	Click to view timetable	Revised route and timetable will operate between FVRH to Fankerton only, Monday - Saturday. (Ochiltree and Kinnaird Park now covered by service 6A.)

From Wednesday more changes will take place: https://www.firstgroup.com/south-ea...tes/planned-changes/service-changes-wednesday

Changes from Wednesday 10th February.​

Services not listed, and Sunday timetables are unchanged.

Service	Click to view timetable	Detail of change
1	Click to view timetable	Will operate every 30 minutes with earlier last journeys Monday-Saturday.
2	Click to view timetable	Will operate hourly, with earlier last journeys Monday-Saturday.
3/4	Click to view timetable	Adjustments to early morning and late evening journeys from Monday - Saturday.
5	Click to view timetable	Timetable adjustments to early morning journeys from Monday-Saturday.
6/6A	Click to view timetable	Timetable adjustments to early morning journeys from Monday-Saturday.
7	No Timetable	Remains Suspended
8	-	Continues current revised route and timetable.
29 & F29	Click to view timetable	Revised early morning timetable from Monday to Saturday.
35	Click to view timetable	Revised early morning timetable from Monday to Saturday.
X37	Click to view timetable	Revised timetable with earlier last journeys Monday-Saturday.
X38	Click to view timetable	Will operate every 30 minutes with some evening journeys suspended.

 

[Jordan Adam]

In reply to a post from the Lothian Buses thread:

my experiences of Firsts West Lothian fleet have always been broken down outside my old house in Livi, rattling, noisy, cold and the majority of drivers would be wanting you off the bus as soon as with some driving off just as you move off the step. That was 6 years ago mind you

That perception of First would've been fair 6+ years ago, however i do think they've improved significantly over recent years through management restructuring and operational changes. I do think the sales of Borders and East Lothian helped First massively as it removed a huge burden from their shoulders while also letting other operators take over who could run the network more cost effectively. Lothian through better integration and Borders through efficiency with less overheads and a cheaper to run fleet. The changes also allowed more focus on the Midland region particularly when it comes to reliability and vehicle presentation, although there is still progress to be made, especially given there's still a small number of vehicles going about in Barbie livery! The Solars which have been repainted and retrimmed recently look really smart, as do the second hand Transbus-style Enviro300s.

 

[Graham Alexand]

What are people's opinion on the new Scotland East Livery, does anyone think it is sort of bland (unbranded buses e.g. non 23/600 branded)?

(Its better compaired to the Glasgow non branded buses though)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What are people's opinion on the new Scotland East Livery, does anyone think it is sort of bland (unbranded buses e.g. non 23/600 branded)?

(Its better compaired to the Glasgow non branded buses though)

I find it better than standard Urban (which is too fussy) and it's better than the two-tone blue. It's a cleaner design. However, it is quite safe and not that exciting but then again, is that to make those branded vehicles stand out more?

As an aside, a better blue livery to the same template might be something like this, as used in Bath? (credit to photographer)

WX05RUV First West of England 53820

Optare Solo Slimline M850SL B26F , the last of 19 new in Bath in May 2015 , of which 10 survive. In Feb 2017 53820 was repainted in the new blue Bath City livery . The rest are all still in Barbie livery , except 53806 which was painted blue in December 2018. 8 new Solos were delivered in...

www.flickr.com

 

[Bus9120UK]

What are people's opinion on the new Scotland East Livery, does anyone think it is sort of bland (unbranded buses e.g. non 23/600 branded)?

(Its better compaired to the Glasgow non branded buses though)

I like it, however the colours used are not as good as Glasgow's ones personally

 

[Graham Alexand]

I like it, however the colours used are not as good as Glasgow's ones personally

I like the livery don't get me wrong, I just preferred the old one where the whole bus was painted.

I find it better than standard Urban (which is too fussy) and it's better than the two-tone blue. It's a cleaner design. However, it is quite safe and not that exciting but then again, is that to make those branded vehicles stand out more?

It may well be, it makes sense to make the branded ones stick out more but if they had every route branded into a few buses it would really brighten ip the place, thats one aspect for why Glasgow's buses may have better Liveries but Furst Glasgow's plain unbranded buses don't stand out as much as West Lothians.

Basically if they brand buses in West Lothian it would really make them stand out.

Minor service change in West Lothian.

Service 21 Whitburn to Livingston via Armadale, Bathgate and Blackburn will be serving the Pyramids in Bathgate for the Covid-19 Vaccination Centre.

V Link to timetable and article below V

The Pyramids Vaccination Centre - Service 21 | South East and Central Scotland | First Bus

From Monday 15th February onwards, Service 21 will operate a revised route in order to serve The Pyramids vaccination centre. These changes have been made to increase travel options for our passengers to travel to their vaccination appointments. Click here to view timetable

www.firstgroup.com

 

[Bus9120UK]

Minor service change in West Lothian.

Service 21 Whitburn to Livingston via Armadale, Bathgate and Blackburn will be serving the Pyramids in Bathgate for the Covid-19 Vaccination Centre.

V Link to timetable and article below V

The Pyramids Vaccination Centre - Service 21 | South East and Central Scotland | First Bus

From Monday 15th February onwards, Service 21 will operate a revised route in order to serve The Pyramids vaccination centre. These changes have been made to increase travel options for our passengers to travel to their vaccination appointments. Click here to view timetable

www.firstgroup.com

This was expected, good to see First also modifying a route to serve the vaccination centre.

 

[Graham Alexand]

This was expected, good to see First also modifying a route to serve the vaccination centre.

So thats First Bus 21 and LothianCountry 275 now so up to 4 buses an hour from Livingston or Bathgate to the Vaccination Centre which is great, gives people options.

Is Optare Solo 53705 LK05 DXF a permanent member of the Livingston depot or just temporary?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Is Optare Solo 53705 LK05 DXF a permanent member of the Livingston depot or just temporary?

Temporary, there's been a Midland vehicle on loan to Livingston for the past month or so on a rotational basis, first it was 36024, then 45116 and now 53706.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Temporary, there's been a Midland vehicle on loan to Livingston for the past month or so on a rotational basis, first it was 36024, then 45116 and now 53706.

Okay, Thank you @Jordan Adam .

I heard this from somewhere, was it true that Bright Bus Tours were supposed to get another tour for Edinburgh?

 

[lastbus]

Anyone know why Livingston are so short of buses just now? 3 buses are on loan there from Glasgow

 

[Graham Alexand]

Anyone know why Livingston are so short of buses just now? 3 buses are on loan there from Glasgow

Which ones are they?

You may be thinking about the non repainted buses WX54 XDB and WX55 TZP their forever home is now Livingston.

If not them which ones are you meaning ?

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

34396 an E400MMC, 42887 a Dart and 47463 a Streetlite are on loan from us. They have loans from Larbert as well I'm led to believe

 

[Graham Alexand]

34396 an E400MMC, 42887 a Dart and 47463 a Streetlite are on loan from us. They have loans from Larbert as well I'm led to believe

Okay, thank you.

Have any of these (loans from FirstGlasgow) been in service in West Lothian yet?
Thanks.