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New lockdown in England, including school closures, announced by Johnson, 4/1/21

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brad465

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We need to say, once and for all, that no matter what happens, we will not resort to these inhumane and ineffective techniques ever again.
We also need to demand improvements in healthcare capacity, or at the very least ask questions as to why nothing is being done about it, as by next winter almost 2 years will have passed. That might not be long enough to resolve the staff shortages, but we can/could have improve(d) the situation.
 
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Yew

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We also need to demand improvements in healthcare capacity, or at the very least ask questions as to why nothing is being done about it, as by next winter almost 2 years will have passed. That might not be long enough to resolve the staff shortages, but we can/could have improve(d) the situation.
Much too expensive, better to just shut down the economy for a year or two and lock everyone in their homes...
 

yorksrob

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We also need to demand improvements in healthcare capacity, or at the very least ask questions as to why nothing is being done about it, as by next winter almost 2 years will have passed. That might not be long enough to resolve the staff shortages, but we can/could have improve(d) the situation.

Exactly. The virus was a surprise last March. There will be no such justification for not having capacity in place next winter.
 

kez19

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Exactly. The virus was a surprise last March. There will be no such justification for not having capacity in place next winter.


I wouldn't say the virus was a surprise last March the governments knew about it but chose to sit and wait then told people to buckle up, I doubt that they have learnt anything and we will probably be in the same boat this year, par the politicians will still blame us (public).
 

yorksrob

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I wouldn't say the virus was a surprise last March the governments knew about it but chose to sit and wait then told people to buckle up, I doubt that they have learnt anything and we will probably be in the same boat this year, par the politicians will still blame us (public).

Probably true, but one can live in hope.
 

Yew

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I wouldn't say the virus was a surprise last March the governments knew about it but chose to sit and wait then told people to buckle up, I doubt that they have learnt anything and we will probably be in the same boat this year, par the politicians will still blame us (public).
I fundementally disagree with this assessment, the government followed established pandemic protocols, and then went of the rails with this inhumane campaign of psychological torture.
 

kez19

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I fundementally disagree with this assessment, the government followed established pandemic protocols, and then went of the rails with this inhumane campaign of psychological torture.


I agree with your assessment but agree the continous locking down whilst everything else is thrown under a bus is pretty much accurate in the 4 nation approach but as if by magic they are starting to realise the damage that is being done but I am doubtful by this winter the government(s) will change their tune --- future media wiinter headlines 2021/22 "NHS breaking point public to blame", "savings costs lives" "FLU RETURNS!!" plus many many more!
 

yorkie

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The hashtag #EnoughIsEnough is trending on Twitter.

Often when a particular hashtag is trending, about a third of the tweets are asking why it is trending, about half are complaining that it is trending, and only a sixth of the tweets are actually the driving force behind the hashtag!

But this is different: almost all tweets are using this hashtag to complain about the never ending lockdown

A selection include:
Lockdowns are going to end. With or without Gov't permission. #EnoughIsEnough

The most vulnerable are now protected There is now no need to keep restrictions in place which cause excess non Covid deaths, suffering, misery, mental health issues, job losses, bankruptcy, suicides & huge increases in education inequality between rich & poor. #EnoughIsEnough

Normally when "anti-lockdown" tags trend it tends to be people criticizing it and hysterically accusing people of being murderers, selfish, whatnot. That doesn't seem to be the case with #EnoughIsEnough. I truly think people have had enough.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
 

Jamesrob637

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Yesterday afternoon I went to the local large town to take my exercise as a couple of circuits of the parks as a change from around this housing estate plus get my weekly shopping and several items on a list I started after Christmas.

The shopping streets were quiet and no queues even outside M&S.

However the parks were as busy as on a bright and hot summers day. Plenty sat on the benches. I suspect a few were with more than one person from a different household / bubble. I didn't see a single plod or PCSO on foot patrol. The only marshals were managing the closure of the main street except for deliveries & disabled. Despite this being from last June two sets of traffic lights within the area are still on .......

By the forecast it will be far less pleasant around here than London & the south-east tomorrow and Sunday


View attachment 91042

View attachment 91043




We have some supply issues but post Brexit paperwork rather than Covid related. The core issue is the large companies not releasing any orders. We need furlough for several more months else it will be laid off with no income.

It ended up being a dull but not massively rainy day in Manchester. Mild though.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The hashtag #EnoughIsEnough is trending on Twitter.

Often when a particular hashtag is trending, about a third of the tweets are asking why it is trending, about half are complaining that it is trending, and only a sixth of the tweets are actually the driving force behind the hashtag!

But this is different: almost all tweets are using this hashtag to complain about the never ending lockdown

A selection include:






ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
In 42hrs our great leader will reveal all in Commons so lets see what the twitterati make of it then
 

brad465

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Scientists estimating an extra 100000 suicides worldwide now...
Do you have a source for this? There are definitely sources for an increase in at least calls for suicidal thoughts and Japan has reported an increased rate, but I can't find anywhere reporting 100,000 extra suicides worldwide.
 

yorkie

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The 2008 downturn definitely caused additional suicides. The effect of the Coronavirus restrictions will be far greater than this. I would say it is impossible to quantify the worldride risk of suicides as I am far from convinced suicides will be accurately logged in many countries.

There is no doubt that the restrictions are causing an immense toll on mental health, though it really is impossible to quantity what effects this will have. It's causing relationships and friendships to break up, it's causing depression, and much more.

Rather than focussing on estimated numbers of suicides, which I think is an impossible task, we need to focus on the awful impacts which will have wide ranging and potentially life changing damage.

The really worrying thing is that we are absolutely trashing the mental and physical wellbeing and livelihoods of many people, especially younger people, in order to ostensibly reduce deaths of a virus for which the average age of a death is actually older than the average age of deaths by all other causes.

This is absolute insanity by our authoritarian Government. The authoritarians who the Government is pandering to are downright dangerous.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The 2008 downturn definitely caused additional suicides. The effect of the Coronavirus restrictions will be far greater than this. I would say it is impossible to quantify the worldride risk of suicides as I am far from convinced suicides will be accurately logged in many countries.

There is no doubt that the restrictions are causing an immense toll on mental health, though it really is impossible to quantity what effects this will have. It's causing relationships and friendships to break up, it's causing depression, and much more.

Rather than focussing on estimated numbers of suicides, which I think is an impossible task, we need to focus on the awful impacts which will have wide ranging and potentially life changing damage.

The really worrying thing is that we are absolutely trashing the mental and physical wellbeing and livelihoods of many people, especially younger people, in order to ostensibly reduce deaths of a virus for which the average age of a death is actually older than the average age of deaths by all other causes.

This is absolute insanity by our authoritarian Government. The authoritarians who the Government is pandering to are downright dangerous.
The govt are pandering to there voter base which certainly isn't the young but the fact they have gone all out to make the NHS front, centre and back is somewhat unexpected. Furthermore the indication is most of the cabinet are 100% behind this being the only goal is perhaps a reflection of how they were picked for being single issue Brexit people and are incapable of independent thought. Sunak is the only outlier but even he's backed off but maybe he's worked out what sh*t storm has been created and best bide his time until the fog lifts. Nett impact is the majority have been cast aside as you say but lets hope that Mondays statement marks the start of our journey, even if slow, back to normality.
 

brad465

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The govt are pandering to there voter base which certainly isn't the young but the fact they have gone all out to make the NHS front, centre and back is somewhat unexpected. Furthermore the indication is most of the cabinet are 100% behind this being the only goal is perhaps a reflection of how they were picked for being single issue Brexit people and are incapable of independent thought. Sunak is the only outlier but even he's backed off but maybe he's worked out what sh*t storm has been created and best bide his time until the fog lifts. Nett impact is the majority have been cast aside as you say but lets hope that Mondays statement marks the start of our journey, even if slow, back to normality.
If they're pandering to their base they've done a poor job of it: firstly because they didn't stop a number of the older base dying with covid, plus some relatives in their base as well losing loved ones, but those who are not in a vulnerable bracket but still in the Tory base are livid at the removal of freedoms and economic destruction.
 

yorksrob

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The govt are pandering to there voter base which certainly isn't the young but the fact they have gone all out to make the NHS front, centre and back is somewhat unexpected. Furthermore the indication is most of the cabinet are 100% behind this being the only goal is perhaps a reflection of how they were picked for being single issue Brexit people and are incapable of independent thought. Sunak is the only outlier but even he's backed off but maybe he's worked out what sh*t storm has been created and best bide his time until the fog lifts. Nett impact is the majority have been cast aside as you say but lets hope that Mondays statement marks the start of our journey, even if slow, back to normality.

It's interesting that Theresa May has at times questioned the direction of the current Government with this crisis. Perhaps she would have had the authority to keep SAGE in their place, had she still been PM.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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If they're pandering to their base they've done a poor job of it: firstly because they didn't stop a number of the older base dying with covid, plus some relatives in their base as well losing loved ones, but those who are not in a vulnerable bracket but still in the Tory base are livid at the removal of freedoms and economic destruction.
OK thats a reasonable counter argument so it must be that they are one track issue cabinet who are selected as they won't dissent.
 

brad465

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OK thats a reasonable counter argument so it must be that they are one track issue cabinet who are selected as they won't dissent.
Yes I would say this combined with the effective admission everything they'd done before was a total failure were they to change strategy. Sunak appears to be someone who would happily dissent if it wasn't going to get in him trouble, either through dismissal from cabinet and/or damaging his credibility in the prospects of a leadership election he might put himself forward for, hence why for now he's staying quiet.

There have recently been Tory MPs like David Davis and Phillip Hammond speaking out about alleged ideas they had that Theresa May supposedly rejected, where the former two claimed things would have been better had their initial ideas been used. If these are true then it eithers shows weakness for not resigning, or what I think is more likely is they're lying in an attempt to shift blame. The reason I bring this up is because I can easily see Sunak doing the same (albeit he could well tell the truth doing so) in a leadership challenge.
 

bramling

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So the civil disobedience the people are talking about is not staying at home - well that will definitely work! Boris and his government will ignore that!

There will come a point when this is happening on a mass scale - if “stay at home” is still around for the spring weather, then fact is there *are* going to be crowds of people heading to places like beaches and beauty spots. However if police decide to start handing out fines (which I don’t think will happen - much easier to pick on a lone man walking his dog or on a station platform without a mask than a beach full of people) it will get interesting very quickly.
The govt are pandering to there voter base which certainly isn't the young but the fact they have gone all out to make the NHS front, centre and back is somewhat unexpected. Furthermore the indication is most of the cabinet are 100% behind this being the only goal is perhaps a reflection of how they were picked for being single issue Brexit people and are incapable of independent thought. Sunak is the only outlier but even he's backed off but maybe he's worked out what sh*t storm has been created and best bide his time until the fog lifts. Nett impact is the majority have been cast aside as you say but lets hope that Mondays statement marks the start of our journey, even if slow, back to normality.

Even if we ignore what we all feel are the rights or wrongs of the current policy direction, the lack of parliamentary debate over all this has been both worrying and remiss. Both parties seem to be made up largely of sheep.
 

Class 33

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Former Tory MP William Hague talking some sense....

Former Tory MP William Hague told Sky News' Sophy Ridge on Sunday programme that he hopes "the great majority of restrictions can be lifted" soon, adding that Mr Johnson will say it all depends on the progress that is being made.

Mr Hague, a former Conservative Party leader, said: "I think if we are going to reach the point, perhaps in April, where everybody over the age of 50 has had the opportunity to be vaccinated and the number of cases of COVID is down to a very low level - the sort of level we last saw in the middle of the summer last year - then there wouldn't be much justification for keeping the restrictions on people."

Full article here https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...d-of-july-under-pms-accelerated-plan-12224309
 

duncanp

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Former Tory MP William Hague talking some sense....



Full article here https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...d-of-july-under-pms-accelerated-plan-12224309

I can't help thinking that the data point at which the government will lift all restrictions (ie social distancing, rules about who can open when and above all face masks ( <( <( ) will be two weeks after all adults have been offered their first COVID vaccination.

Given that there are 53.5 million adults in the UK and 17.2 million have already been vaccinated, that leaves 36.3 million still to do.

Even assuming a rate of 300,000 vaccinations per day, which is much less than currently being achieved, this would take us to the end of June. But it is not impossible that we could achieve this target earlier. Assuming a rate of 400,000 vaccinations per day we would hit this target at the end of May.

So I think that whilst Boris Johnson has set a target of the end of July for every adult to be offered their first vaccination, it is entirely possible, indeed probable, that we will hit this target earlier, and thus be able to bring forward the date for the lifting of all restrictions. (:D:D:D:D:D)

I think we are going to see a similar situation with the reopening of hospitality in England, where the data point will be two weeks aftereveryone in priority groups 1- 9 has been offered their first jab. He has brought this forward to the middle of April, but we are currently on course to hit this target just after Easter.

St George's Day in the pub is suddenly looking a lot more likely than it was a couple of weeks ago, and it would have the advantage for Boris Johnson of wrong footing Nicola Sturgeon, who is likely to want to keep pubs in Scotland closed for as long as possible.
 

35B

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I can't help thinking that the data point at which the government will lift all restrictions (ie social distancing, rules about who can open when and above all face masks ( <( <( ) will be two weeks after all adults have been offered their first COVID vaccination.

Given that there are 53.5 million adults in the UK and 17.2 million have already been vaccinated, that leaves 36.3 million still to do.

Even assuming a rate of 300,000 vaccinations per day, which is much less than currently being achieved, this would take us to the end of June. But it is not impossible that we could achieve this target earlier. Assuming a rate of 400,000 vaccinations per day we would hit this target at the end of May.

So I think that whilst Boris Johnson has set a target of the end of July for every adult to be offered their first vaccination, it is entirely possible, indeed probable, that we will hit this target earlier, and thus be able to bring forward the date for the lifting of all restrictions. (:D:D:D:D:D)

I think we are going to see a similar situation with the reopening of hospitality in England, where the data point will be two weeks aftereveryone in priority groups 1- 9 has been offered their first jab. He has brought this forward to the middle of April, but we are currently on course to hit this target just after Easter.

St George's Day in the pub is suddenly looking a lot more likely than it was a couple of weeks ago, and it would have the advantage for Boris Johnson of wrong footing Nicola Sturgeon, who is likely to want to keep pubs in Scotland closed for as long as possible.
Reading the coverage in today’s Sunday Times, the key thing that emerges to me is a willingness to assess the impact of each step before moving to the next.
 

DustyBin

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If they're pandering to their base they've done a poor job of it: firstly because they didn't stop a number of the older base dying with covid, plus some relatives in their base as well losing loved ones, but those who are not in a vulnerable bracket but still in the Tory base are livid at the removal of freedoms and economic destruction.

I think you’re right, the old vs young narrative is just another attempt by the government to divide and conquer. I really don’t think it’s old people calling for this to be honest.
 

Class 33

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I can't help thinking that the data point at which the government will lift all restrictions (ie social distancing, rules about who can open when and above all face masks ( <( <( ) will be two weeks after all adults have been offered their first COVID vaccination.

Given that there are 53.5 million adults in the UK and 17.2 million have already been vaccinated, that leaves 36.3 million still to do.

Even assuming a rate of 300,000 vaccinations per day, which is much less than currently being achieved, this would take us to the end of June. But it is not impossible that we could achieve this target earlier. Assuming a rate of 400,000 vaccinations per day we would hit this target at the end of May.

So I think that whilst Boris Johnson has set a target of the end of July for every adult to be offered their first vaccination, it is entirely possible, indeed probable, that we will hit this target earlier, and thus be able to bring forward the date for the lifting of all restrictions. (:D:D:D:D:D)

I think we are going to see a similar situation with the reopening of hospitality in England, where the data point will be two weeks aftereveryone in priority groups 1- 9 has been offered their first jab. He has brought this forward to the middle of April, but we are currently on course to hit this target just after Easter.

St George's Day in the pub is suddenly looking a lot more likely than it was a couple of weeks ago, and it would have the advantage for Boris Johnson of wrong footing Nicola Sturgeon, who is likely to want to keep pubs in Scotland closed for as long as possible.

So we could possibly be looking at maybe between mid June(best case scenario) to mid August(worst case scenario) that all restrictions could finally be lifted. If it's about mid June to early July, I could live with that. But about mid August is quite a wait yet, nearly 6 months!

Also I'm thinking of this years intended festivals and events again. This scenario could still be way too late for many festivals to go ahead, as festival/events organisers ideally need at least 2 to 3 months notice really to whether they can definitely go ahead or not. I still think the announcement of when social distancing/face masks/bans on mass gatherings will only be given at about 2 weeks notice. Owch! Too short notice for festivals/events organisers unfortunately. But we'll see.....

It would be great if we can have a feel good care-free(and that includes no social distancing and no face masks!) summer this year, after all we've been through with all this.

Tomorrow's announcement though I'm not expecting to be great in itself. I think the "Stay at home" will unfortunately probably still stay. But am reasonably confident there will be more good news announced over the coming few months.
 
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yorksrob

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I was queueing in a well known coffee chain this morning when the gentleman in front started having a conversation with the salesperson about how he thought it was too early to lift lockdown. He started looking towards me for encouragement and support, at which point he got told straight that I don't agree with lockdowns and that they don't work anyway.
 

duncanp

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I was queueing in a well known coffee chain this morning when the gentleman in front started having a conversation with the salesperson about how he thought it was too early to lift lockdown. He started looking towards me for encouragement and support, at which point he got told straight that I don't agree with lockdowns and that they don't work anyway.

If the gentleman in the coffee shop thought it was too early to lift the lockdown, then what the **** was he doing in the coffee shop in the first place?

Visiting a coffee shop is not absolutely essential.

This is what gets me about locktivists - they are all too keen on restrictions, as long as they are not affected by them, and they also don't feel too much of an obligation to stick to the rules either (eg. Professor Pantsdown)
 

yorksrob

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If the gentleman in the coffee shop thought it was too early to lift the lockdown, then what the **** was he doing in the coffee shop in the first place?

Visiting a coffee shop is not absolutely essential.

This is what gets me about locktivists - they are all too keen on restrictions, as long as they are not affected by them, and they also don't feel too much of an obligation to stick to the rules either (eg. Professor Pantsdown)

He was buying a lot of coffees, so he was presumably out with the family for their mid-lockdown stroll :lol:
 

duncanp

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He was buying a lot of coffees, so he was presumably out with the family for their mid-lockdown stroll :lol:

I am quite sure he wasn't having an illicit meeting with his extended family or someone else he doesn't live with. :D
 

Alex C.

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I can't help thinking that the data point at which the government will lift all restrictions (ie social distancing, rules about who can open when and above all face masks ( <( <( ) will be two weeks after all adults have been offered their first COVID vaccination.

Given that there are 53.5 million adults in the UK and 17.2 million have already been vaccinated, that leaves 36.3 million still to do.

Even assuming a rate of 300,000 vaccinations per day, which is much less than currently being achieved, this would take us to the end of June. But it is not impossible that we could achieve this target earlier. Assuming a rate of 400,000 vaccinations per day we would hit this target at the end of May.

So I think that whilst Boris Johnson has set a target of the end of July for every adult to be offered their first vaccination, it is entirely possible, indeed probable, that we will hit this target earlier, and thus be able to bring forward the date for the lifting of all restrictions. (:D:D:D:D:D)

I think we are going to see a similar situation with the reopening of hospitality in England, where the data point will be two weeks aftereveryone in priority groups 1- 9 has been offered their first jab. He has brought this forward to the middle of April, but we are currently on course to hit this target just after Easter.

St George's Day in the pub is suddenly looking a lot more likely than it was a couple of weeks ago, and it would have the advantage for Boris Johnson of wrong footing Nicola Sturgeon, who is likely to want to keep pubs in Scotland closed for as long as possible.
I think that the government has learned their lesson and shifted to under promising and over delivering so whatever timetable is announced I am almost certain that the government will bring forwards some elements of it so they can claim a victory in the press (due to our amazing work we can reopen pubs fully 3 weeks early etc).

That said, does the above take into the account that in the near future we're going to need to process ~17 million second jabs? I imagine that this will use up almost all the capacity for a while and then they can begin on first jabs for the next lot of people?

Personally, given the data we have so far I have an inkling that it would make more sense at this point to forget second jabs completely for now, and come back to them later. As far as I can tell, 12 weeks was an arbitrary figure, is there any reason it couldn't be 24?
 
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