First Greater Glasgow

[route101]

I'd say they don't make them like they used to but PSVAR then emissions and date I say customer expectations have all been factors in reducing lifecycles.

True, I cant imagine an Eclipse lasting more than 20 years. First Eclipses seem more flimsy than Lothians I found. London is a good example, oldest bus last year I seen was 56 plate E400.

 

[scosutsut]

True, I cant imagine an Eclipse lasting more than 20 years. First Eclipses seem more flimsy than Lothians I found. London is a good example, oldest bus last year I seen was 56 plate E400.

I think getting ahead of the curve and selling vehicles with life left in them for school bus and other lighter duties is the way forward, but big fleets often run things into the ground out of financial necessity / corporate policy.

I can't see COVID helping that problem, nor the impending threat from UK gov of a ban on new diesel buses, forcing operators to buy much more expensive and complex electric and hydrogen vehicles.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Do we know just how reliable the electric buses on the M3 are? It’ll be interesting to see electric buses on a main stream route like the 9/9A where there are lots of buses vs the current two just now.

There’s a lot of emphasis on moving from diesels to electric and hydrogen which is great for the environment and great to move forward but I can’t help but feel like it’s really soon to be relying on all electric vehicles going forward. I wonder also if Glasgow will start to see hydrogen buses.

 

[scosutsut]

There’s a lot of emphasis on moving from diesels to electric and hydrogen which is great for the environment and great to move forward but I can’t help but feel like it’s really soon to be relying on all electric vehicles going forward.

I agree 100% I'd actually go as far as to say from the comfort of my armchair that electric is actually the least best suited solution for buses, but the one with the most R&D time and money spent on it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd say they don't make them like they used to but PSVAR then emissions and date I say customer expectations have all been factors in reducing lifecycles.

The 25 year lifespan was very much the exception when you consider that a) deregulation reduced new vehicle intakes, b) the impact of the Larkfield fire and c) underinvestment from First as they bought up available firms rather than replacing fleet.

Remember that in the mid 1980s, the oldest Atlanteans were, I think, L reg (13 yrs old) and they were flogging off M/N regs.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

When you look at the Ailsas and Atlanteans , they nearly made 25 years in service. It seems to have decreased now; the oldest bus is nearly 19 years old in the First Glasgow fleet.

Pre MOT tests, when you used to have the 7 then 5 year certificate of fitness, the old Glasgow Corporation had very few buses over 12 years old. Very occasionally a bus would get a new certificate after 12 years (for a further 3 if I remember) but this was rare and most buses were sent for scrap. There was a dealer in Salsburgh (Tiger??) who used to buy them and export the Leyland engines to Africa as they also fitted tanks that the African countries had bought from the UK. I can't remember any Glasgow Atlanteans from the 70's making it into the late 90's.

 

[christopherrfc]

37223 repainted into purple front (not my pic)

First Glasgow 37223 | Ewan Gray | Flickr

 

[PaulMc7]

37223 repainted into purple front (not my pic)

First Glasgow 37223 | Ewan Gray | Flickr

Looks pretty good. Liking the look of the new branding for the 1s so far

 

[JumpinTrainz]

37223 repainted into purple front (not my pic)

First Glasgow 37223 | Ewan Gray | Flickr

Looks so much better! These buses were in dire need of being painted. Now just for the interior to be done!

 

[PaulMc7]

It'll be interesting to see how many of these deckers get painted for the 1C/1D given the reduced frequency at the moment from every 20 mins to 30. Interestingly as a result of that they're both more frequent on a Sunday than any other day. You'd have to imagine that they'll definitely be normal frequency post Covid unless an utter disaster happens.

 

[lastbus]

It'll be interesting to see how of these deckers get painted for the 1C/1D given the reduced frequency at the moment from every 20 mins to 30. Interestingly as a result of that they're both more frequent on a Sunday than any other day. You'd have to imagine that they'll definitely be normal frequency post Covid unless an utter disaster happens.

I’d imagine they’ll be branded the same as the single deckers.

 

[PaulMc7]

I’d imagine they’ll be branded the same as the single deckers.

Meant how many would be branded to be fair. Just realised there was a typo in my last post as I completely missed out the word many

 

[Rgy88]

Looks so much better! These buses were in dire need of being painted. Now just for the interior to be done!

They would look amazing if they got the same treatment as the route 61 buses internally.

Pre MOT tests, when you used to have the 7 then 5 year certificate of fitness, the old Glasgow Corporation had very few buses over 12 years old. Very occasionally a bus would get a new certificate after 12 years (for a further 3 if I remember) but this was rare and most buses were sent for scrap. There was a dealer in Salsburgh (Tiger??) who used to buy them and export the Leyland engines to Africa as they also fitted tanks that the African countries had bought from the UK. I can't remember any Glasgow Atlanteans from the 70's making it into the late 90's.

The old LA buses i remember were R,S,T,V,W,X reg plated, and thats going back to mid 90's, 1996 sort of era.
The LA buses seemed to disappear round about the same time as the new First Bus low floor buses entered service and they were 1997 R reg.

The very last of the A class Ailsa buses lasted until 2005 round about the same time the 54 reg Gemini buses entered service, the very last ones very the A and B reg ones that had the seat belts fitted like the preserved one A737PSU?

Early 00's there were also a lot of old second hand double deckers from down south - Manchester?

 

[route101]

Meant how many would be branded to be fair. Just realised there was a typo in my last post as I completely missed out the word many

There can't be that many 57 plate Geminis on the one?

There were Atlanteans from the 1970s still in service in 1996, V and S plates.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Cant be that many 57 plate Geminis on the one?

There was Atlanteans from the 1970s still in service in 1996, V and S plates.

There's 11 Geminis for the 1C/1D and the odd one sometimes shows up on the 206

 

[route101]

They would look amazing if they got the same treatment as the route 61 buses internally.


The old LA buses i remember were R,S,T,V,W,X reg plated, and thats going back to mid 90's, 1996 sort of era.
The LA buses seemed to disappear round about the same time as the new First Bus low floor buses entered service and they were 1997 R reg.

The very last of the A class Ailsa buses lasted until 2005 round about the same time the 54 reg Gemini buses entered service, the very last ones very the A and B reg ones that had the seat belts fitted like the preserved one A737PSU?

Early 00's there were also a lot of old second hand double deckers from down south - Manchester?

Yes, I wonder why they never upgraded them B9TLs. 1998 was the year of LA withdrawal.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, I wonder why they never upgraded them B9TLs. 1998 was the year of LA withdrawal.

You mean B7TLs? As in the 54 plates?

The issue was that in the period when they probably could've been done e.g. 2013-5, First were busy using a lot of capital to buy new vehicles as they had the looming DDA deadline and, as they had skimped on investment in the provinces, they had a backlog of fleet replacement.

 

[route101]

You mean B7TLs? As in the 54 plates?

The issue was that in the period when they probably could've been done e.g. 2013-5, First were busy using a lot of capital to buy new vehicles as they had the looming DDA deadline and, as they had skimped on investment in the provinces, they had a backlog of fleet replacement.

They are definitely B9TLs, as they are 57 plates.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They are definitely B9TLs, as they are 57 plates.

Just that the quote you were replying was specifically mentioning 54 plate Geminis so was a bit confusing, hence the question

 

[Tom Gallacher]

From memory the old LA's in the 90's were all running under the No 2 company which was set up to be a low cost operation and used the old Kelvin Central operator's licence. I don't know the in's and out's of why this was done but having spent the last 45 years in the transport industry I would hazard a guess and say that it was done for some sort of tax reasons. If that meant running a fleet that was obsolete then so be it. It's a bit like the old British Rail running ghost trains. A 20+ year old bus might see service on the very odd occasion but you can bet your bottom dollar it wasn't out there every day. The buses in the GVVT probably spend more time on the road than any of these "old" buses ever did.

It's amazing how you can "legally" transfer costs between associated companies to avoid corporation tax

 

[route101]

Just that the quote you were replying was specifically mentioning 54 plate Geminis so was a bit confusing, hence the question

Sorry, I never noticed the 54 plates!

From memory the old LA's in the 90's were all running under the No 2 company which was set up to be a low cost operation and used the old Kelvin Central operator's licence. I don't know the in's and out's of why this was done but having spent the last 45 years in the transport industry I would hazard a guess and say that it was done for some sort of tax reasons. If that meant running a fleet that was obsolete then so be it. It's a bit like the old British Rail running ghost trains. A 20+ year old bus might see service on the very odd occasion but you can bet your bottom dollar it wasn't out there every day. The buses in the GVVT probably spend more time on the road than any of these "old" buses ever did.

It's amazing how you can "legally" transfer costs between associated companies to avoid corporation tax

Was it GCT buses? I remember them using LAs.

I remember Lothian buses using buses from there historic fleet in normal service to boost capacity.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Sorry, I never noticed the 54 plates!


Was it GCT buses? I remember them using LAs.

I remember Lothian buses using buses from there historic fleet in normal service to boost capacity.

I think they ran under that banner.

 

[92002]

I think they ran under that banner.

There was a documentary about Singer on BBC2, the other night. Getting another outing with shots of GCT Atlanteans.

 

[Strathclyder]

The old LA buses i remember were R,S,T,V,W,X reg plated, and thats going back to mid 90's, 1996 sort of era.
The LA buses seemed to disappear round about the same time as the new First Bus low floor buses entered service and they were 1997 R reg.

The very last of the A class Ailsa buses lasted until 2005 round about the same time the 54 reg Gemini buses entered service, the very last ones very the A and B reg ones that had the seat belts fitted like the preserved one A737PSU?

Early 00's there were also a lot of old second hand double deckers from down south - Manchester?

Several dozen former 'A-class' Ailsas (or Alphas as some called them) lasted well into 2006 (all withdrawn by the summer of that year), all based at Scotstoun primarily for school work by the end fitted with seatbelts and crash-pads on top of the seats. And yeah, the very last ones in service carried A & B-regs; now-preserved A735 PSU was among these.

Also worth mentioning that 735 was one of only 2 Ailsas to carry Barbie 2/Willowleaf livery; B27 YYS (31221; ex-A126) was the other one. Images of both (both from the haley111 Flickr collection) dating from August (213) & May 2005 (221) linked below. The aforementioned crash-pads can clearly be seen on both vehicles.

First Glasgow 31213 (A735PSU)

Ailsas didn't really hang around long enough to receive Barbie colours, apart from this one (there may have been one more). Seen in Bath Street passing the former Council transport offices (hiding behind scaffolding)

www.flickr.com

First Glasgow 31221 (B27YYS)

Making a rare excursion on the 42 back in 2005 is one of the only Ailsas repainted into willow leaf livery. Seen here at the stop outside the King's Theatre in Bath Street, Glasgow.

www.flickr.com

As to the final point, a number of second-hand deckers were parachuted into the FiG fleet in the early 2000s.

Noted among these were ex-London Dennis Dominators, ex-Greater Manchester PTE Leyland Olympians, 10 ex-Hong Kong tri-axle Leyland Olympians (ex-China Motor Bus/New World First Bus) and a sole ex-Singapore Bus Services Volvo Olympian; both of the latter 2 had worked with Greater Manchester prior to flitting north. Four ex-Eastern Scottish Volvos (3 Ailsas and a sole B10M Citybus) also appeared within the same period. Linked below are two representatives of the first 2 examples (both taken by our own @awsnews), both images dating from June 2003. There may have been others besides these, but they were the ones that sprang most readily to mind.

First Glasgow Dennis Dominator DD23 on the 62

Another older view, this time from 2003, sees First Glasgow DD23 (later renumbered 31346), a Dennis Dominator new to Capital Citybus which moved to Glasgow at the end of 2002, heading for Baillieston on the 62. Somewhat unusual for a London bus in being single door from new.

www.flickr.com

First Glasgow Olympian LO130 on Argyle Street

Another 2003 view shows another Northern Counties bodied import to the First Glasgow fleet, LO130 (later becoming 30167) being a Leyland Olympian new to Greater Manchester PTE and moving to Glasgow in March 03.

www.flickr.com

 

[awsnews]

From memory the old LA's in the 90's were all running under the No 2 company which was set up to be a low cost operation and used the old Kelvin Central operator's licence. I don't know the in's and out's of why this was done but having spent the last 45 years in the transport industry I would hazard a guess and say that it was done for some sort of tax reasons. If that meant running a fleet that was obsolete then so be it. It's a bit like the old British Rail running ghost trains. A 20+ year old bus might see service on the very odd occasion but you can bet your bottom dollar it wasn't out there every day. The buses in the GVVT probably spend more time on the road than any of these "old" buses ever did.

It's amazing how you can "legally" transfer costs between associated companies to avoid corporation tax

The GCT operation was legally Comlaw No. 313 Ltd and was a separate subsiduary of Stratchlyde's Buses.

Several dozen former 'A-class' Ailsas (or Alphas as some called them) lasted well into 2006 (all withdrawn by the summer of that year), all based at Scotstoun primarily for school work by the end fitted with seatbelts and crash-pads on top of the seats. And yeah, the very last ones in service carried A & B-regs; now-preserved A735 PSU was among these.

Also worth mentioning that 735 was one of only 2 Ailsas to carry Barbie 2/Willowleaf livery; B27 YYS (31221; ex-A126) was the other one. Images of both (both from the haley111 Flickr collection) dating from August (213) & May 2005 (221) linked below. The aforementioned crash-pads can clearly be seen on both vehicles.

First Glasgow 31213 (A735PSU)

Ailsas didn't really hang around long enough to receive Barbie colours, apart from this one (there may have been one more). Seen in Bath Street passing the former Council transport offices (hiding behind scaffolding)

www.flickr.com

First Glasgow 31221 (B27YYS)

Making a rare excursion on the 42 back in 2005 is one of the only Ailsas repainted into willow leaf livery. Seen here at the stop outside the King's Theatre in Bath Street, Glasgow.

www.flickr.com

As to the final point, a number of second-hand deckers were parachuted into the FiG fleet in the early 2000s.

Noted among these were ex-London Dennis Dominators, ex-Greater Manchester PTE Leyland Olympians, 10 ex-Hong Kong tri-axle Leyland Olympians (ex-China Motor Bus/New World First Bus) and a sole ex-Singapore Bus Services Volvo Olympian; both of the latter 2 had worked with Greater Manchester prior to flitting north. Four ex-Eastern Scottish Volvos (3 Ailsas and a sole B10M Citybus) also appeared within the same period. Linked below are two representatives of the first 2 examples (both taken by our own @awsnews), both images dating from June 2003. There may have been others besides these, but they were the ones that sprang most readily to mind.

First Glasgow Dennis Dominator DD23 on the 62

Another older view, this time from 2003, sees First Glasgow DD23 (later renumbered 31346), a Dennis Dominator new to Capital Citybus which moved to Glasgow at the end of 2002, heading for Baillieston on the 62. Somewhat unusual for a London bus in being single door from new.

www.flickr.com

First Glasgow Olympian LO130 on Argyle Street

Another 2003 view shows another Northern Counties bodied import to the First Glasgow fleet, LO130 (later becoming 30167) being a Leyland Olympian new to Greater Manchester PTE and moving to Glasgow in March 03.

www.flickr.com

31216 made it onto the 62 in early 2006:
http://www.gcsbromleygarage.com/127...01 to 2009-08-07/slides/fig3121601060106.html
(This is a self hosted copy of my original fotopic site so it doesn't have all the moden bells and whistles when it comes to linking and sharing, it is also the reason the 'current fleet' sections are a tad out of date...)
If you navigate up a level there are quite a few examples of early 2000's acquistions for First Glasgow

 

[Strathclyder]

31216 made it onto the 62 in early 2006:
http://www.gcsbromleygarage.com/1276archive/The 1276-Busstop-First Glasgow/Former Fleet - Double Deck 2001-01-01 to 2009-08-07/slides/fig3121601060106.html

What I'd give to have that appear on the 2 now! Not something I remember happening at the time, seeing as I was only 9 y/o in Jan. 2006 and my interest in buses hadn't fully taken root by then. But I digress. The last Ailsas (apart from 213 & 221 as discussed above) were the last deckers on-fleet to retain the Imitation London Red livery, if I recall correctly? Don't think too many got Barbie Fadeout livery either, now that I'm thinking about it.

 

[92002]

What I'd give to have that appear on the 2 now! Not something I remember happening at the time, seeing as I was only 9 y/o in Jan. 2006 and my interest in buses hadn't fully taken root by then. But I digress. The last Ailsas (apart from 213 & 221 as discussed above) were the last deckers on-fleet to retain the Imitation London Red livery, if I recall correctly? Don't think too many got Barbie Fadeout livery either, now that I'm thinking about it.

More likely today an E400 is liable to turn up on the 2. Wearing a service 75 or 77 livery. If you're really lucky a 38 or 41 livery.

 

[Strathclyder]

More likely today an E400 is liable to turn up on the 2. Wearing a service 75 or 77 livery. If you're really lucky a 38 or 41 livery.

Aye. Those or a Gemini-bodied B7/9TL. If you're really lucky, one of the 6 President-bodied B7TLs will appear (one did this past week, 32300 I think it was). Although very thin on the ground now, Tridents may drop onto the 2 on occasion; the last of the President Tridents (33120) has done so several times over the last year.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Aye. Those or a Gemini-bodied B7/9TL. If you're really lucky, one of the 6 President-bodied B7TLs will appear (one did this past week, 32300 I think it was). Although very thin on the ground now, Tridents may drop onto the 2 on occasion; the last of the President Tridents (33120) has done so several times over the last year.

I wish the 2 seen deckers on a permanent basis. It’s a busy route and has been screaming out for them for years.

 

[92002]

I wish the 2 seen deckers on a permanent basis. It’s a busy route and has been screaming out for them for years.

There were plans before the current pandemic to buy new E400s for the 2 and 3 and maybe the 1s. All of course are currently on hold.