May 2021 Timetable Change

[infobleep]

Still nothing from SWR except Island Line.

Wierd to see zero services from the UK's busiest railway station with just seven weeks to go!

I'm surprised the National Rail Enquiries app doesn't try to route me from Guildford to Portsmouth via Dorking but it just errors.

Given it does give times for which a single ticket isn't valid, I'd kind of expect it to be the case here too.

It does give me options to London at least.

 

[High Dyke]

BR used to do it regularly. There were various late night trains from Nottingham that got canned in the 90s because the cost of dealing with the misbehaviour of the passengers was more than the takings from running the service.

Whether it was effective or not who can say, the 2051 Nottingham to Boston on a Saturday has had an appalling reputation for years.

It will be interesting to see how the 21:41 ex Nottingham - Sleaford goes. I doubt there will many takers for the return trip from Sleaford.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

BR used to do it regularly. There were various late night trains from Nottingham that got canned in the 90s because the cost of dealing with the misbehaviour of the passengers was more than the takings from running the service.

Whether it was effective or not who can say, the 2051 Nottingham to Boston on a Saturday has had an appalling reputation for years.

There was also an issue with safety of the staff, the late service from Nottingham to Grantham was on its final warnings about poor behaviour when there was a nasty incident one evening with the guard attacked and that was the end of that service.

 

[lincman]

Nottingham – Leeds via Barnsley 1tph
Lincoln – Leeds via Barnsley CANCELLED

I am not surprised the Lincoln - Leeds has been cancelled, it was the most pointless service. I had the misfortune to us that service only once. On the day I used which was just after the route was introduced, I was lucky enough on the day I travelled to have unit scheduled replaced by a Pacer. One day we will have a decent service from Lincoln.

 

[Bikeman78]

I am not surprised the Lincoln - Leeds has been cancelled, it was the most pointless service. I had the misfortune to us that service only once. On the day I used which was just after the route was introduced, I was lucky enough on the day I travelled to have unit scheduled replaced by a Pacer. One day we will have a decent service from Lincoln.

In 2019 they were wedged full between Leeds and Sheffield so hardly pointless on that section.

 

[Dave91131]

I am not surprised the Lincoln - Leeds has been cancelled, it was the most pointless service. I had the misfortune to us that service only once. On the day I used which was just after the route was introduced, I was lucky enough on the day I travelled to have unit scheduled replaced by a Pacer. One day we will have a decent service from Lincoln.

For a fairly brief time pre-Covid I thought there had been improvements to that service.

The all shacks Sheffield - Gainsborough service gave 2-tph between Worksop and Sheffield, and meant most Lincoln services were non-stop between Sheffield and Worksop.

Very well used too throughout from my experience, with most passengers from stations either side of Sheffield travelling to / from there or Meadowhall.

 

[lincman]

In 2019 they were wedged full between Leeds and Sheffield so hardly pointless on that section.

The service from Lincoln to Sheffield was extremely well used as I am sure your observations point out so was the Sheffield - Leeds section. My point why the 2 services were consider to be a good idea to join together.

For a fairly brief time pre-Covid I thought there had been improvements to that service.

The all shacks Sheffield - Gainsborough service gave 2-tph between Worksop and Sheffield, and meant most Lincoln services were non-stop between Sheffield and Worksop.

Very well used too throughout from my experience, with most passengers from stations either side of Sheffield travelling to / from there or Meadowhall.

For a fairly brief time pre-Covid I thought there had been improvements to that service.

The all shacks Sheffield - Gainsborough service gave 2-tph between Worksop and Sheffield, and meant most Lincoln services were non-stop between Sheffield and Worksop.

Very well used too throughout from my experience, with most passengers from stations either side of Sheffield travelling to / from there or Meadowhall.

That is very true we had better rolling stock , and to all intents and purposes it looked good on paper. The reality was the journey time between the 2 points hardly improved at all.

 

[Watershed]

My point why the 2 services were consider to be a good idea to join together.

Platform capacity at Sheffield is relatively constrained, and thus even if the service were nominally 'split' at Sheffield, the units would likely still have to run in exactly the same way. There aren't enough platforms available for an ex-Lincoln unit to sit around until the next Lincoln service.

So you may as well show it as a through service, so that anyone travelling from Worksop to Meadowhall etc. isn't erroneously told they'll need to change trains (when in fact it's exactly the same train).

It's a bit like the Ormskirk-Preston-Colne service which is, in reality, operated by the same unit on both halves of the route. However, due to the 'splitting' of the service, journey planners suggest you need to wait an hour at Preston!

 

[lincman]

Platform capacity at Sheffield is relatively constrained, and thus even if the service were nominally 'split' at Sheffield, the units would likely still have to run in exactly the same way. There aren't enough platforms available for an ex-Lincoln unit to sit around until the next Lincoln service.

So you may as well show it as a through service, so that anyone travelling from Worksop to Meadowhall etc. isn't erroneously told they'll need to change trains (when in fact it's exactly the same train).

It's a bit like the Ormskirk-Preston-Colne service which is, in reality, operated by the same unit on both halves of the route. However, due to the 'splitting' of the service, journey planners suggest you need to wait an hour at Preston!

The planners have never seemed to know what to do with the Lincoln service, it has run to various locations at various times including Huddersfield, Wath on Dearne and even at one I believe Doncaster. The point I was hoping to make is that the 2019 change was supposed to be an introduction of the Northern Connect a fast ,comfortable inter urban network 90% operated with new trains. No matter how you look at this it is just linking 2 local services with little or no improvement to the journeys on either leg. I take your point regarding Sheffield station but why not simply say connecting at Sheffield for Leeds.

 

[clagmonster]

The service from Lincoln to Sheffield was extremely well used as I am sure your observations point out so was the Sheffield - Leeds section. My point why the 2 services were consider to be a good idea to join together.




That is very true we had better rolling stock , and to all intents and purposes it looked good on paper. The reality was the journey time between the 2 points hardly improved at all.

I think the point is to provide a direct service from Lincoln to Meadowhall. Beyond there, it doesn't really matter where it goes.

 

[Ianno87]

The planners have never seemed to know what to do with the Lincoln service, it has run to various locations at various times including Huddersfield, Wath on Dearne and even at one I believe Doncaster. The point I was hoping to make is that the 2019 change was supposed to be an introduction of the Northern Connect a fast ,comfortable inter urban network 90% operated with new trains. No matter how you look at this it is just linking 2 local services with little or no improvement to the journeys on either leg. I take your point regarding Sheffield station but why not simply say connecting at Sheffield for Leeds.

It's just joined at Sheffield to whatever is most operationally convenient. As others say, the point is to get to Meadowhall, so it can be basically linked to anything heading that way; whatever works best in that particular cast of the timetable.

 

[Peterthegreat]

The planners have never seemed to know what to do with the Lincoln service, it has run to various locations at various times including Huddersfield, Wath on Dearne and even at one I believe Doncaster. The point I was hoping to make is that the 2019 change was supposed to be an introduction of the Northern Connect a fast ,comfortable inter urban network 90% operated with new trains. No matter how you look at this it is just linking 2 local services with little or no improvement to the journeys on either leg. I take your point regarding Sheffield station but why not simply say connecting at Sheffield for Leeds.

I don't think you will find it has ever run to Wath upon Dearne!

 

[lincman]

Quite right it was Mansfield Woodhouse.

 

[172101]

Still nothing from SWR yet?

 

[Bald Rick]

Still nothing from SWR yet?

Check tomorrow

 

[youngiecj]

There was also an issue with safety of the staff, the late service from Nottingham to Grantham was on its final warnings about poor behaviour when there was a nasty incident one evening with the guard attacked and that was the end of that service.

Still issues now on the 2051 sadly. Security did travel as far as Grantham pre-COVID.

It will be interesting to see how the 21:41 ex Nottingham - Sleaford goes. I doubt there will many takers for the return trip from Sleaford.

Surprisingly doesn’t go into Grantham either!

 

[infobleep]

Check tomorrow

Still not up. You did say tomorrow.

I appreciate you meant railway tomorrow.

I was rather enjoying seeing the suggested route from Clapham Junction to Guildford. This being
Clapham Junction - East Croydon [tram to] - Wimbledon - Sutton - Dorking Main [walk to] - Dorking Deepedeene - Guildford

Shame it's not valid on a single ticket. Surprised it didn't just suggest East Croydon to Redhill and Redhill to Guildford. Must be slower.

 

[RPI]

As you know Capacity as already been increased west of Plymouth since 2020 with most services no longer splitting at Plymouth. RTT will show if a train divides at Plymouth which there don’t seem to be many in May 2021 just late evenings.

As mentioned up thread the Newquay services are in RTT as unadvertised (you need to click on details for them to show up) - the operation (or not) will presumably depend on nothing other than the ability to be able to get sufficient train crew route refreshed.

Newquay shouldn't be an issue? Plymouth crews had some unit work on the branch and pre covid they had started training conductors on IET's

 

[Jamesrob637]

Here's a big one:
Will Manchester to Chester via Altrincham and Manchester to Stoke finally go hourly on Sundays?!
Both of these were due back in 2016-2017, when capacity was a bit lower than just pre-COVID.

 

[Llandudno]

Here's a big one:
Will Manchester to Chester via Altrincham and Manchester to Stoke finally go hourly on Sundays?!
Both of these were due back in 2016-2017, when capacity was a bit lower than just pre-COVID.

Will it actually revert back to hourly on Mondays to Saturdays.....?

 

[Bald Rick]

Here's a big one:
Will Manchester to Chester via Altrincham and Manchester to Stoke finally go hourly on Sundays?!
Both of these were due back in 2016-2017, when capacity was a bit lower than just pre-COVID.

Have a look in real time trains for your answer

 

[Halish Railway]

Here's a big one:
Will Manchester to Chester via Altrincham and Manchester to Stoke finally go hourly on Sundays?!
Both of these were due back in 2016-2017, when capacity was a bit lower than just pre-COVID.

The Stoke trains still seem to have the pathetic 1tp3h timetable on Sundays.

On the topic of the Stoke trains, for how long have they been stopping at Heaton Chapel in the down direction only?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Have a look in real time trains for your answer

I've taken that with a massive pinch of salt since there was a second Avanti from Manchester to London showing as soon as twelve days before Monday just gone, when in reality it's not scheduled to restart before the 12th of April.

Manchester does gain a second Avanti for Easter weekend only however it's a Warrington divert.

The Stoke trains still seem to have the pathetic 1tp3h timetable on Sundays.

On the topic of the Stoke trains, for how long have they been stopping at Heaton Chapel in the down direction only?

I live near Heaton Chapel - was my commuter station for years. The below applies Monday to Saturday since May 2018:

In short, HTC gains the Stoke towards Manchester, and Levenshulme gains the fast Buxton a few minutes behind it (likely the actual next train behind it; there's barely 5 minutes between them from Stockport.)

Towards the south, Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel gain the Southport to Alderley Edge to make 4 trains an hour in each direction, because the second Buxton calls at both stations both ways. The consistent stoppers, as I call them, are the Blackpool North to Hazel Grove, Manchester to Crewe, and the second Buxton when it runs outside of the (currently non-existent but railways have it in their minds that it still exists at the moment) peaks.

That means that currently, northbound can see up to the scheduled 4 trains an hour since the second Buxton runs only in the peaks, but southbound never does better than 3 trains an hour until at least the 12th, if not May, because the Southport to Alderley Edge isn't currently running past Manchester.

 

[Bald Rick]

I've taken that with a massive pinch of salt since there was a second Avanti from Manchester to London showing as soon as twelve days before Monday just gone, when in reality it's not scheduled to restart before the 12th of April.

Avanti changes were very short notice, and for the period before the May TT. What is shown in the May TT is what is happening (pending any major shift in policy from Government).

 

[vikingdriver]

Looks like the SWR services have now been added.

 

[Bald Rick]

Looks like the SWR services have now been added.

Phew! I was getting a bit worried that my crystal ball was needing a service.

 

[vikingdriver]

Phew! I was getting a bit worried that my crystal ball was needing a service.

Someone was probably just having a laugh and teasing you!

 

[Bald Rick]

Someone was probably just having a laugh and teasing you!

 

[Kite159]

I see the bulk of the XX:50 Waterloo - Salisbury services are cut back to starting from Basingstoke again. Which is great other than the connection at Basingstoke being the XX:20 Waterloo - Exeter services. So anybody wanting Overton/Whitchurch will have a 30 minute fester at Basingstoke.

Great for winning back passengers

At least the other way it's only a 6 minute wait for the train from Weymouth

 

[Bikeman78]

I see the bulk of the XX:50 Waterloo - Salisbury services are cut back to starting from Basingstoke again. Which is great other than the connection at Basingstoke being the XX:20 Waterloo - Exeter services. So anybody wanting Overton/Whitchurch will have a 30 minute fester at Basingstoke.

Great for winning back passengers

At least the other way it's only a 6 minute wait for the train from Weymouth

I see that most XC trains stop at Winchester again. However, for those that don't, it's a 40 minute wait at Basingstoke in the down direction for a connection to Winchester. Enjoy!