EMR Class 360's

[Ladder23]

I still think it's very disappointing that none of the 360s have been refurbished so that at the "ceremonial" first day they can at least highlight a refurbished train and the much nicer interior the final 360s will have

Just seems really poor PR to me

I somewhat agree, I don’t suppose there is a slim chance something could still be done with short notice?
Thanks to those above who answered with the launch dates

 

[Bald Rick]

Are the Corby diagrams self-contained enough that they can put a 360 rake on a 222 diagram before the TT change, without it having to head off to somewhere embarrassingly unelectrified? Otherwise, might it have to be a "big bang" changeover because any remaining HSTs wouldn't keep up to the new timings, and until the 810s arrive they need all the 222s and 180s to run the longer-distance services.

Not at all self contained - but as I mentioned upthread there are some ECS training diagrams for 360s that are exclusively Corby - Kettering / Wellingboro, and I suspect they could be turned into ‘special’ services for actual passengers when the appropriate authorisations are done.

 

[westcoaster]

When you say to test the wash, would that be the washer that's visible on the left side of the Midland Mainline just after the road bridge which has the buffers just before the river?

Yes the wash plant, but the one at Cauldwell depot not the one by the station.

 

[Aictos]

Yes the wash plant, but the one at Cauldwell depot not the one by the station.

That's strange, I thought there was only the one washer at Bedford and that's by CS 1-9 and 10-14? I didn't know that there was two at Bedford?

 

[Mikey C]

I somewhat agree, I don’t suppose there is a slim chance something could still be done with short notice?
Thanks to those above who answered with the launch dates

Or even ONE refurbished carriage to show the media?

 

[superalbs]

Or even ONE refurbished carriage to show the media?

A render would be a fine start!

 

[westcoaster]

That's strange, I thought there was only the one washer at Bedford and that's by CS 1-9 and 10-14? I didn't know that there was two at Bedford?

Yes there has always been two. One at the carriage sidings and one at cauldwell (circled red).

Google maps image attached.

 

[Neptune]

It would be highly unusual to do a “Big Bang” overnight change of stock type on a route, surely they’ll need to run far more training turns in the run up; and normally there’d be some appear in passenger service gradually?

Can’t really think of a similar “overnight change” happening recently, can anyone else?

To be fair you didn’t specify that you weren’t allowing DMU for DMU or EMU for EMU so I would say everyone who replied to this statement actually answered your question correctly.

Put it this way, when the 195’s took over the Calder Valley from the mix of (at the time) largely unrefurbished 15x units it was a Big Bang change for the passengers in the same way 360’s replacing 222’s is (probably more so due to the fact that 360’s are unrefurbished 15 year old trains with 3+2 seating as it stands replacing 222’s with better passenger facilities).

 

[Aictos]

Yes there has always been two. One at the carriage sidings and one at cauldwell (circled red).

Google maps image attached.

Wow never knew that, why two though?

 

[LowLevel]

To be fair you didn’t specify that you weren’t allowing DMU for DMU or EMU for EMU so I would say everyone who replied to this statement actually answered your question correctly.

Put it this way, when the 195’s took over the Calder Valley from the mix of (at the time) largely unrefurbished 15x units it was a Big Bang change for the passengers in the same way 360’s replacing 222’s is (probably more so due to the fact that 360’s are unrefurbished 15 year old trains with 3+2 seating as it stands replacing 222’s with better passenger facilities).

Class 360s are 18 year old trains replacing 17 year old ones though I think it is generally accepted that electrics are better than diesels so it is swings and roundabouts!

 

[Aictos]

Class 360s are 18 year old trains replacing 17 year old ones though I think it is generally accepted that electrics are better than diesels so it is swings and roundabouts!

Well for one thing, Electrics are usually quieter and one bonus of the Class 360s which I've not seen being picked up despite it being a well known bug bear of some posters here and that is they won't have under floor engines.

That aside don't electrics also bring lower operating costs and are seen as more green pius they're going to be refurbished anyway.

 

[43102EMR]

Class 360s are 18 year old trains replacing 17 year old ones though I think it is generally accepted that electrics are better than diesels so it is swings and roundabouts!

That and the 360s aren’t bad trains - their acceleration is amongst the best of modern day commuter EMUs and their reliability is good. They just need some internal and external TLC which was clearly neglected by the past operators of the East Anglia franchise...

 

[Mikey C]

And the 360s are a self contained "commuter" fleet for the Corby services, whereas the 222s were general trains for all destinations, so it's a massive operational change...

 

[Nottingham59]

Surely the biggest change is the introduction of a completely new timetable, rather than any traction changes?

Imagine the alternative if EMR had enoughs 222s to run the Nottingham and dedicated Corby services. The timetable change would be a major event in itself. Far more operationally complex than ending the use of half a dozen* 222 units one day, and replacing them with the same number of 360 units the next.

*Not sure how many diagrams are used for the Corby service.

 

[Rail Blues]

Well for one thing, Electrics are usually quieter and one bonus of the Class 360s which I've not seen being picked up despite it being a well known bug bear of some posters here and that is they won't have under floor engines.

The 'loud diesel engines thumping away' seems to be a bugbear of a minority of a of posters on here, but isn't really relevant in the real world. This concern might be valid on a 1st generation DMUs after 30 odd years of use and abuse, but on a 222 I doubt the overwhelming majority of passengers won't know where the engines are located, let alone care.

 

[43066]

To be fair you didn’t specify that you weren’t allowing DMU for DMU or EMU for EMU so I would say everyone who replied to this statement actually answered your question correctly.

I’m not sure why people think going from DMU to EMU makes things inherently more difficult. So long as the infrastructure works, and sufficient crews are trained up, what’s so significant about going from diesel to electric?

No doubt the timetable change will be the biggest challenge, along with possible gremlins resulting from the 360s having seen little use for many weeks.

 

[Aictos]

The 'loud diesel engines thumping away' seems to be a bugbear of a minority of a of posters on here, but isn't really relevant in the real world. This concern might be valid on a 1st generation DMUs after 30 odd years of use and abuse, but on a 222 I doubt the overwhelming majority of passengers won't know where the engines are located, let alone care.

I was being sarcastic, of course as long as the train gets the passenger from A to B I don't think they care what powers it.

 

[43102EMR]

I was being sarcastic, of course as long as the train gets the passenger from A to B I don't think they care what powers it.

I think a lot more people/passengers are starting to be environmentally conscious though, which is partially what is fuelling the replacement of a lot of “dirty diesels” in the coming years with electrification alternatives.

 

[IanXC]

Is it really correct that there are only 4 circuits on the St Pancras - Corby service? Even if you assume that all 4 are 12 cars, then that only means 12 360s are required for service each day, which makes a fleet of 21 seem rather excessive?

 

[JonathanH]

Is it really correct that there are only 4 circuits on the St Pancras - Corby service? Even if you assume that all 4 are 12 cars, then that only means 12 360s are required for service each day, which makes a fleet of 21 seem rather excessive?

Should be 6 circuits - 70 minute running time, 15 minutes in Corby, 25 minutes in London.

21 units for a possible peak requirement for 18 - near perfect fleet size - what foresight when they were ordered twenty years ago.

 

[IanXC]

Should be 6 circuits - 70 minute running time, 15 minutes in Corby, 25 minutes in London.

21 units for a possible peak requirement for 18 - near perfect fleet size - what foresight when they were ordered twenty years ago.

Ah yes that makes much more sense.

 

[Ianno87]

I think a lot more people/passengers are starting to be environmentally conscious though, which is partially what is fuelling the replacement of a lot of “dirty diesels” in the coming years with electrification alternatives.

Passengers increasingly do notice it at the likes of Birmingham New Street.

 

[Bishopstone]

Sorry if these questions have been answered way back in the thread, but:

1. Is catering being abolished on the Corby services, as the 360s have no buffet and aren’t gangwayed between units?

2. Post-refurbishment, will the location of First Class (if retained?) change from the bays behind the cabs, to a centralised spot elsewhere within the units?

 

[Benjy3000]

I somewhat agree, I don’t suppose there is a slim chance something could still be done with short notice?
Thanks to those above who answered with the launch dates

I don't want to take this thread off topic but have EMR even done interior refurbishments on any stock never mind the 360's? I've only seen vinyl stickers applied to the exteriors of existing stock but no notable interior changes.

 

[samuelmorris]

I don't want to take this thread off topic but have EMR even done interior refurbishments on any stock never mind the 360's? I've only seen vinyl stickers applied to the exteriors of existing stock but no notable interior changes.

Given they have only relatively recently taken over and their entire fleet is being swapped out, is that relevant?

 

[Benjy3000]

Given they have only relatively recently taken over and their entire fleet is being swapped out, is that relevant?

Avanti West Coast have been going for less time and refurbished multiple voyagers. I only ask as I haven't see any concept art or plans for the interior, every EMR train I've been on has looked pretty tired since they took over.

 

[43102EMR]

Avanti West Coast have been going for less time and refurbished multiple voyagers. I only ask as I haven't see any concept art or plans for the interior, every EMR train I've been on has looked pretty tired since they took over.

There have been some knocking about for the 810s and 170s - not sure if any are around for the 360s though.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if these questions have been answered way back in the thread, but:

2. Post-refurbishment, will the location of First Class (if retained?) change from the bays behind the cabs, to a centralised spot elsewhere within the units?

First is kept on 360s, and must change location because the number of seats (23) is more than can be fitted in just the sections by the cabs. No details have been seen though.

 

[D365]

21 units for a possible peak requirement for 18 - near perfect fleet size - what foresight when they were ordered twenty years ago.

Just a pity that we didn’t get to unite them with the ex-Heathrow fleet

 

[Bletchleyite]

First is kept on 360s, and must change location because the number of seats (23) is more than can be fitted in just the sections by the cabs. No details have been seen though.

I can't remember the exact layout, but the LNR 2+2 layout has something very close to that number, so I guess they will likely move it to the middle section of one of the vehicles.