Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[NorthKent1989]

Lucky you. We've got a number of families who have lost close relatives to COVID-19 and 8 (in a relatively small school) admissions to hospital due to severe illness. Just because you've been lucky enough to know people with 'mild illness' doesn't mean that things aren't happening elsewhere.omic

We can’t keep harping on about the negatives, that’s the issue with most people during this time is that they’re ghoul mongers.

 

[bramling]

Lucky you. We've got a number of families who have lost close relatives to COVID-19 and 8 (in a relatively small school) admissions to hospital due to severe illness. Just because you've been lucky enough to know people with 'mild illness' doesn't mean that things aren't happening elsewhere.omic

Those that I know who have sadly lost people find the constant drip-drip-drip an unwelcome reminder, and wish to attempt to move on, not keep being reminded of it in pretty much every aspect of daily life.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I am very glad to hear that no one you know has had a bad case of Covid. Unfortunately more than 140,000 people in the UK have died from Covid, and millions more worldwide. Many more still are suffering long-term ill health from Covid.


The truth is that no one knows what the effect of the Omicron variant will be yet - it will be a few more weeks until there is enough information to make a judgement. However, by getting most of the country vaccinated and rolling out boosters we have constructed a pretty big defensive wall.

The only reason this is still going on is because people are obsessed with the death toll, how many other people have died of other ailments due to putting Covid first? Like suicide?

 

[Smidster]

The only reason this is still going on is because people are obsessed with the death toll, how many other people have died of other ailments due to putting Covid first? Like suicide?

The evidence to date is that actually suicide rates have been pretty stable (though I will say it may take longer for full data to be available as such cases tend to have to go to coroners for investigation etc so data is slower to arrive)

Your much better argument is the long term impact of effectively closing the health system to anything that wasn't Covid for 12 months - That will have a massive impact on health in the coming years as people who have delayed treatment or diagnosis suffer as a consequence and sadly there will be many many cases where that delay will produce an avoidable death and often at a much younger age than Covid victims.

To be honest the people I do know of people who have are in the figures and would have wanted us to get on with our lives and try to enjoy what time we have rather than having restrictions in perpetuity.

 

[brad465]

The only reason this is still going on is because people are obsessed with the death toll, how many other people have died of other ailments due to putting Covid first? Like suicide?

Yes the ONS have been reporting excess deaths for about 4 months now. But perhaps the reason this isn't widely known is because Covid is not the cause of death pushing the totals into excess each week:

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Provisional counts of the number of deaths registered in England and Wales, including deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19), by age, sex and region.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[stevetay3]

The only reason this is still going on is because people are obsessed with the death toll, how many other people have died of other ailments due to putting Covid first? Like suicide?

Exactly I have asked up thread how many have died from other things such as flu cancer or suicide and am still waiting for the doom mongers to respond if this goes on any longer I will probably loose it as well.

Yes the ONS have been reporting excess deaths for about 4 months now. But perhaps the reason this isn't widely known is because Covid is not the cause of death pushing the totals into excess each week:

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Provisional counts of the number of deaths registered in England and Wales, including deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19), by age, sex and region.

www.ons.gov.uk

View attachment 106407

Spot on well posted covid only a small percentage of total deaths, can’t wait to here the other side respond to that

Exactly I have asked up thread how many have died from other things such as flu cancer or suicide and am still waiting for the doom mongers to respond if this goes on any longer I will probably loose it as well.


Spot on well posted covid only a small percentage of total deaths, can’t wait to here the other side respond to that

Why is none of the above not reported on the main media or No 10 updates

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Why is none of the above not reported on the main media or No 10 updates

Because there is an agenda, that agenda is fear so that you will comply (with vaccinations / restrictions, not the wacky conspiracy stuff). From the media perspective, bad news sells papers. Man dies of COVID = news, 10 men die of natural causes = not news. Pointing out that in the UK 16,000 or so people die every week anyway, of something or other, does not help drive that narrative (68m population, 80 year life, 52 weeks per year = 16,346).

Yes folks, that's 850,000 deaths per year, normally, every year from now until eternity.

 

[MikeWM]

Yes the ONS have been reporting excess deaths for about 4 months now. But perhaps the reason this isn't widely known is because Covid is not the cause of death pushing the totals into excess each week:

Isn't this really rather concerning? We'd expect immediately after the nasty part of a pandemic to have deaths *below* average, surely?

 

[TPO]

You appear not to have noticed my point in my reply to the contributor who doubted the effectiveness of face coverings. You now seem to cast doubt, from what you say above, that the public at large have not the same expertise as hospital staff in the handling and wearing of face coverings.

.......and even then "face coverings" are a different kettle of fish to a properly fitted FFP3 mask (which is respiratory protective equipment- RPE- technically, whereas legally "face coverings" are NOT classed as RPE).

As any health and safety professional who has worked in the area of specifying RPE knows, there's a whole lot of stuff about this. It's the world of face-fit, time in mask and protection factors. It's about correct use (including maintenance) of the equipment and for anything with a face-seal, being clean shaven. I get VERY annoyed at TV programmes where someone with a beard is wearing a dusk mask to "protect" themselves when spraying paint, BBC Repair Shop I am looking at you!- but that's not untypical of how those not trained and motivated to use RPE correctly will use it (and render it totally pointless).

There's a lot of twisting and turning going on to try to "prove" that face coverings do anything, but fact is that if an asbestos removal contractor used such face coverings as protection (even for "low-risk" asbestos-containing materials) it would be a Prohibition Notice and a trip to court if the HSE caught them. Asbestos fibres are rather larger than viruses- indeed the standard testing process for identifying them in a sample uses a visual/polarising microscope (in my younger days I set up a test lab for asbestos and took it through UKAS accreditation, so I've done a bit of work on this stuff).

The "obedience to medical advice" thing also concerns me, as do phrases like "the science is settled" or calling people who raise questions "deniers." We seem to be seeing a new religion here. What is also worth saying is that the medical/pharma world has a history of ignoring evidence when it suits them (see: cholesterol theory vs clot theory for causes of heart disease). I always ask: "qui bono"? (i.e. follow the money).

I'm not convinced about a third jab. I had the first 2 (and had COVID in the early days) but I'm not convinced about the booster. Ironically, that's in part because COVID has been circulating and endemic levels of a disease tend to keep the immune response (from having a disease or vaccine) fresh, whereas if a disease ceases to be endemic is when classically boosters were required (it is suggested that might be part of a reason why the last person who died from smallpox in UK did so- even though she had been successfully vaccinated, as smallpox was not endemic in UK at the time the vaccine effects had diminished).

The big pharma are always after a drug which has a wide uptake on a regular basis (= good steady income- think statins or anti-acid drugs), so the idea of annual COVID vaccines for the next few years (as I noticed being suggested on a BBC website article) does lead me to ask: "qui bono?" As COVID is 99% survivable, it seems rather too convenient.

No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I was trained (PhD level) in the physical sciences and over the years I've seen enough of the less nice side human nature to recognise that scientists and medics can be motivated by money and social factors just as much as everyone else can be!

TPO

 

[adc82140]

The media are screaming that Omicron has a reinfection rate 3 times higher than Delta. But 3 times not a lot is still not a lot.

They are saying that there have been 36,000 reinfections in South Africa of the 2.8 million total cases since the start of the pandemic. That's 1.27%. 3 times that is 3.82%. Still not many, and coupled with the fact that those reinfected get mild symptoms, this isn't a great public health emergency.

 

[TPO]

Isn't this really rather concerning? We'd expect immediately after the nasty part of a pandemic to have deaths *below* average, surely?

Yes, extremely concerning. This excess of non-COVID deaths is rather high.

We really should be finding out the causes- as it's possible that "COVID measures" of some sort could potentially be contributing/causal and that ought to have a bearing on future interventions (especially as the first phase of vaccine roll-out plus hotpital treatment protocols has dramatically reduced the chance fo death from COVID).

TPO

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Isn't this really rather concerning? We'd expect immediately after the nasty part of a pandemic to have deaths *below* average, surely?

There have been periods with successive weeks of below average deaths.
Week 25 2020 (19 June 2020) through to week 32 (7 August 2020),
Week 10 2021 (12 March 2021) through to week 22 (4 June 2021) with one week in that period above average.
Plus some outlier weeks, but that's how averages are.

Cumulative, still well above the 'frozen' 2015 to 2019 average though overall. Ultimately it will even out, because you can only die once.

 

[Ediswan]

I get VERY annoyed at TV programmes where someone with a beard is wearing a dusk mask to "protect" themselves when spraying paint, BBC Repair Shop I am looking at you!- but that's not untypical of how those not trained and motivated to use RPE correctly will use it (and render it totally pointless).

Is even a well fitting (no beard) dust mask appropriate for paint/solvents ? I was under the impression that you should use an organic vapour filter.

 

[MikeWM]

Cumulative, still well above the 'frozen' 2015 to 2019 average though overall. Ultimately it will even out, because you can only die once.

Well, assuming we return to 'normal service' eventually, yes. But if life expectancy [1] dropped long-term, for whatever reason(s), presumably not, and so far the signs don't appear good.

[1] yes I know 'life expectancy' is a really complex thing and I'm dramatically over-simplifying, but I think my point is clear.

 

[Ediswan]

I am pleased to say that the sports and social club of which I am a member has issued its December activities update with no changes from what was previously planned. Not everbody is frit.

 

[stevetay3]

The Tory on question time now is priceless can’t explain why you can sit in a crowed pub.for hours without a mask but not pop in a shop for five min without a mask also says Downing st party was a meeting in a work place

 

[Andyh82]

The Tory on question time now is priceless can’t explain why you can sit in a crowed pub.for hours without a mask but not pop in a shop for five min without a mask also says Downing st party was a meeting in a work place

The way to sort out that inconstancy wasn’t the one that many here would like though, it was the opposite one.

 

[Bikeman78]

The Tory on question time now is priceless can’t explain why you can sit in a crowed pub.for hours without a mask but not pop in a shop for five min without a mask also says Downing st party was a meeting in a work place

I'm off to Sussex in a couple of weeks. I reckon two or three cans of cider will cover the journey to Paddington. That way it's just a moving pub

 

[stevetay3]

I'm off to Sussex in a couple of weeks. I reckon two or three cans of cider will cover the journey to Paddington. That way it's just a moving pub

Or claim your carriage is a workplace

 

[Eyersey468]

How is it any closer? We thankfully are not part of the EU any more and Sajid Javid has made it clear we would not go down this road.

I also hope he sticks to that but given this governments track record I will believe it when I see it. Mandatory vaccines are a very dangerous road to start down.

I wonder why the fact that new viruses can appear seems strange to people. Evolution is not just confined to certain species.

I agree

 

[Pete_uk]

I am a pensioner I don’t ware a mask unless forced to do so I go to shops I use public transport and see friends. I have not had as much as a cold during all this hysteria ramped up by the media. I have been triple injected as well. I know of no one who has had more than a mild illness from this let alone die.I don’t think anyone is expert in this yet and there is so much variation in what we are told by the various media. One side says omicron is worst ever as were all the others were supposed to be, and others say it’s very mild indeed. I know who I prefer to believe, as for what I believe it’s what I see and here with my own ears and eyes until firm facts are produced.

You carry on and enjoy what's left if your time on this crazy planet!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just had a look at the TfGM website page. It still shows a large entry stating.....
"You must wear a face covering unless you are exempt (see our Coronavirus page)"

At the top of the page, printed in black on a red banner is a reminder that it is a legal requirement to wear a face covering on public transport.

This online exhortation is from the land of the TfGM empire ruled by Emperor Burnham, who is not of the same political belief as Johnson.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The Tory on question time now is priceless can’t explain why you can sit in a crowed pub.for hours without a mask but not pop in a shop for five min without a mask also says Downing st party was a meeting in a work place

She was dire no wonder she's not been allowed to do media stuff and was probably setup last night so they can move her on.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Just had a look at the TfGM website page. It still shows a large entry stating.....
"You must wear a face covering unless you are exempt (see our Coronavirus page)"

At the top of the page, printed in black on a red banner is a reminder that it is a legal requirement to wear a face covering on public transport.

This online exhortation is from the land of the TfGM empire ruled by Emperor Burnham, who is not of the same political belief as Johnson.

Not sure why you are trying to make this out as some kind of political spat.

It is a legal requirement to wear a face covering, that was not the case last week, that change in the law (from mere guidance) needs to be publicised.

If you can give me a list of all Transport Authorities (not just the former PTE's), the political orientation of their leadership, and the strength of messaging regarding masks, and that analysis shows a significant difference between the blue donkeys and the red donkeys (other colours of the spectrum are available in lesser numbers) then that would be interesting. Regarding national politics, the reds seem much more keen on restrictions to personal liberty than the blues. Whatever the blues put forward, the reds response is that you should have done it sooner, harder and for longer.

The Tory on question time now is priceless can’t explain why you can sit in a crowed pub.for hours without a mask but not pop in a shop for five min without a mask also says Downing st party was a meeting in a work place

That would be because there is no logic to the measures introduced. Sit in a crowded pub vs sit on a crowded train I can understand equivalent measures. Sit in a crowded pub or train versus a 15 minute shop in a quiet, well ventilated supermarket. No contest.

 

[stevetay3]

You carry on and enjoy what's left if your time on this crazy planet!

I intend to

 

[birchesgreen]

My company canceled it's xmas party at a third party venue (as i mentioned a few days ago), but now they are going to have a do in the office instead. Because having a party in an office where people have been working all day is obviously safer than a party at a venue which has probably been empty all day...

 

[joncombe]

My company canceled it's xmas party at a third party venue (as i mentioned a few days ago), but now they are going to have a do in the office instead. Because having a party in an office where people have been working all day is obviously safer than a party at a venue which has probably been empty all day...

Sounds more like an excuse to save money to me.

 

[yorksrob]

My employer has never funded the xmas party - we've always had to arrange our own. So if your company has cancelled it and you (the workers) disagree, sod them and arrange your own anyway - the power is in your hands !

 

[birchesgreen]

Sounds more like an excuse to save money to me.

No, they seem to have lost their... er stuff over this new variant, some really strange emails being flying around.

 

[martin2345uk]

Is there still an open thread about observations of mask compliance on trains..?