Heysham cancellations

[Ken H]

I think I know the answer, but it's long surprised me that guards don't conduct RRBs, both for revenue and to ensure they don't get lost, miss out stations etc.

would a Skipton guard know the way from Heysham Stn to Morecambe Stn?

Transdev Harrogate and District train drivers on a route before they can drive a service bus on it. I dont know how general that is on the buses. But maybe it should become a rail requirement for RRB's
I also find it poor that there are no rail staff on an RRB. No-one checks tickets, no-one makes sure that passengers are reassured their journey will continue OK. But that would cost ££££

 

[craigybagel]

I dont think there is any route conducting involved , the only time a driver would be route conducted is if the traction involved was not signed by the route conducting driver . Otherwise if you sign the route and the traction you are in the seat .

That being said , rail replacement bus drivers not having an idea of their route is an issue that the railway really should do something to address .

I know at one point the weekday service was booked for 150, which Barrow didn't sign - so it was booked for both the Skipton driver and Barrow driver to remain onboard. I'm not sure what the current arrangement is however.

 

[Watershed]

I know at one point the weekday service was booked for 150, which Barrow didn't sign - so it was booked for both the Skipton driver and Barrow driver to remain onboard. I'm not sure what the current arrangement is however.

It's just worked by a Barrow crew. Can't remember off the top of my head what it's diagrammed for but it mostly seems to be a 156 - when it turns up.

 

[neilmc]

Why not couple the nuclear flasks on to the back of the 156 unit, save a trip and make the Heysham service more reliable? Sorted!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why not couple the nuclear flasks on to the back of the 156 unit, save a trip and make the Heysham service more reliable? Sorted!

Well, we do need to get rid of DMUs...how about the first NEMU?

 

[dk1]

So what did the train crew do while the cancelled train didnt run to heysham. I will bet they sat at Morecambe and drank tea. Because they would be needed to take the train back to lancaster.

Does it matter whether they drank tea or went for an ice-cream?

 

[Ken H]

Does it matter whether they drank tea or went for an ice-cream?

just a pity they could not operate the train for want of a bit of training.

 

[dk1]

just a pity they could not operate the train for want of a bit of training.

Unfortunately things are not always as easy as they seem.

 

[muz379]

I think I know the answer, but it's long surprised me that guards don't conduct RRBs, both for revenue and to ensure they don't get lost, miss out stations etc.

I don't know the safest / quickest road routes between destinations I sign on the railway for a bus though so it'd involve a load more "route learning" . Then I'd have to do it regularly to keep my knowledge on these routes up .

Of course the other side of it is that when there is rail replacements on it doesn't always mean theres a glut of spare traincrew to conduct these busses .

What was the reason you think the answer is ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What was the reason you think the answer is ?

That (without commenting on whether it would be right or not) the Unions would seek additional pay for this additional competency, and the TOCs (again without commenting on whether it would be right or not) would not pay it.

 

[muz379]

That (without commenting on whether it would be right or not) the Unions would seek additional pay for this additional competency, and the TOCs (again without commenting on whether it would be right or not) would not pay it.

I think you are right if it was proposed unions would want a payment for doing it.

But that aside I don't think I would ever be proposed by a TOC because it causes too many headaches for them like training and maintaining route competency etc . During disruption it's going to be hard to put in place . And can you imagine the uproar if a train got cancelled cos all the spare guards had been sent out bus conducting

Just on a personal level I'd rather sit on a bus all day making sure the driver goes the right away and checking a few tickets Vs being responsible for working a train .

 

[Ianigsy]

How many genuine users are there which use the Heysham train to connect with the boat to the Isle of Man?

The universities in the north of England are very popular with Manx students in part because you not only have flights to Liverpool/Leeds/Manchester/Newcastle but also the ferry option if you have lots to move.

 

[randyrippley]

before the Heysham line was reopened to passengers, these provided the link.
Sometimes five double deckers with trailers, from Lonsdale coaches

Lonsdale Coaches, Leyland AN68 CUF144L in Undated - Geoffrey Morant

thetransportlibrary.co.uk

Lonsdale Coaches, Leyland AN68 NRG165M in 1988 - Geoffrey Morant

thetransportlibrary.co.uk

Lonsdale Coaches, Leyland PDR1 EWS820D in 1985 - Geoffrey Morant

thetransportlibrary.co.uk

Lonsdale Coaches, Leyland AN68 HGG245N in 1985 - Geoffrey Morant

thetransportlibrary.co.uk

In many ways the bus was a better service. Both day and night sailings had connections to Lancaster station, and East Lancs residents had the "City Flyer", usually actually run by a very quick all-white Leyland Leopard

 

[Crossover]

So what did the train crew do while the cancelled train didnt run to heysham. I will bet they sat at Morecambe and drank tea. Because they would be needed to take the train back to lancaster.

Does it matter whether they drank tea or went for an ice-cream?

Best not mention the old EMR arrangement that left a couple of members of staff to have the day in York/Scarborough!

 

[dk1]

Best not mention the old EMR arrangement that left a couple of members of staff to have the day in York/Scarborough!

Oh no, please do As traincrew we have some fabulous extended breaks in some rather pleasant locations sometimes. Can be a lovely day out in its own right. I’ve changed into my shorts & sat through an entire air show & carnival before working a train back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh no, please do As traincrew we have some fabulous extended breaks in some rather pleasant locations sometimes. Can be a lovely day out in its own right. I’ve changed into my shorts & sat through an entire air show & carnival before working a train back.

Business travel has given me a load of wonderful free holidays on the condition I did some work during part of them. Sadly no longer, but why would anyone resent traincrew having a cup of tea and a walk down the prom?

 

[dk1]

Business travel has given me a load of wonderful free holidays on the condition I did some work during part of them. Sadly no longer, but why would anyone resent traincrew having a cup of tea and a walk down the prom?

That eludes me too.

I’ve been Morecambe to Heysham several times over the years. On first generation DMUs, Pacers & even a charter. Always a dreary bleak experience. Wish I’d seen it in the days of a busy railway freight location too.

 

[43066]

I think I know the answer, but it's long surprised me that guards don't conduct RRBs, both for revenue and to ensure they don't get lost, miss out stations etc.

To be fair I don’t think guards’ route knowledge could ever extend to road vehicles being driven between stations. Far easier to ensure the bus companies provide competent drivers (and their own ticket inspectors)?!

Sadly no longer, but why would anyone resent traincrew having a cup of tea and a walk down the prom?

I don’t think certain people on here need any excuse to resent traincrew, they just do it anyway!

 

[randyrippley]

Any traincrew forced to enjoy Morecambe for a day should be entitled to hardship bonuses

 

[dk1]

Any traincrew forced to enjoy Morecambe for a day should be entitled to hardship bonuses

The Midland Hotel is well worth an overnight stay.

 

[Ianigsy]

Business travel has given me a load of wonderful free holidays on the condition I did some work during part of them. Sadly no longer, but why would anyone resent traincrew having a cup of tea and a walk down the prom?

Because based on the last couple of days, they'd need thawing out before they could work their next train?

 

[yorksrob]

How many genuine users are there which use the Heysham train to connect with the boat to the Isle of Man?
(Rather than people using the train solely to cover the track and will simply return on the same train)

Sometimes if there is a staff shortage, it's better to cancel the services which are low demand (easy enough to put any genuine passengers in a taxi from Morecambe to Heysham or vice-versa) then to cancel a service which might affect more passengers. (I.e. London Northwestern putting buses on the Abbey Line)

I used the line to visit a nature reserve. Admittedly I had a lift back to Lancaster

 

[VideozVideoz]

It‘s difficult to explain just how big an effect Covid has had on crew training, but one thing that didn’t change was staff continued to retire. Many TOCs are now playing catch up to bridge the gap, which for some is not a quick fix.



About 3 years ago pre-Covid about 20 passengers got off the train for the ferry we were catching. No idea if that is typical though, only done it once.

I did the journey a few months back and there was at least 25 getting off - taken after many had entered the terminal building

 

[yorksrob]

There were about ten when I got it. They didn't look like rail enthusiasts.

 

[zwk500]

The numbers being quoted for ferry passengers transferring from the train suggest it would be better value for rail passengers to stop operating passenger trains beyond Morecambe and provide complimentary coaches to Lancaster and Morecambe.

 

[WesternLancer]

You would be surprised

Yes, I would say when I went last july - to get the boat, about 10 people each way on the train. No one just doing the track mileage as everyone on the train was seen by me at the boat check in desk outbound at least.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The numbers being quoted for ferry passengers transferring from the train suggest it would be better value for rail passengers to stop operating passenger trains beyond Morecambe and provide complimentary coaches to Lancaster and Morecambe.

It is probably one of those odd cases where the train is cheaper to operate. It is in marginal time that would otherwise be used for another round trip to Lancaster. It burns marginal diesel that would otherwise be burnt for another round trip to Lancaster. It uses traincrew who would...you're getting the idea.

The line itself can't be closed as it is used for nuclear waste from Heysham. That won't be open forever, but if the plans to build 8 new reactors go ahead I would be surprised if it didn't get another one - might as well use existing sites as it is cheaper and you won't get objections. So you're talking tiny additional track wear.

It thus costs little more than the cost of maintaining the track and platform at Heysham Port station, which as it is a bus shelter type arrangement is very low.

It feels like a basket case, but if 30 is a typical load it is quite possibly profitable.

 

[zwk500]

It is probably one of those odd cases where the train is cheaper to operate. It is in marginal time that would otherwise be used for another round trip to Lancaster. It burns marginal diesel that would otherwise be burnt for another round trip to Lancaster. It uses traincrew who would...you're getting the idea.

I don't know the normal service, but from RTT it looks like the run to Heysham and back delays the return departure from Morecambe. So you'd be able to provide a more regular clock-face timetable if you got rid of the passenger service. You'd have more flexibility with crewing the service as the need for route knowledge would be simplified. At this point, saving even marginal diesel is good. A coach will use less fuel to Lancaster than the train to Heysham. It's not in marginal time, it shifts the paths back to Leeds around.

The line itself can't be closed as it is used for nuclear waste from Heysham. That won't be open forever, but if the plans to build 8 new reactors go ahead I would be surprised if it didn't get another one - might as well use existing sites as it is cheaper and you won't get objections. So you're talking tiny additional track wear.
It thus costs little more than the cost of maintaining the track and platform at Heysham Port station, which as it is a bus shelter type arrangement is very low.

The cost of maintaining a freight only line is substantially lower than a passenger line, even one as low speed as Heysham. It would also potentially allow the track layouts and signalling from Hest Bank to Morecambe to be simplified.

It feels like a basket case, but if 30 is a typical load it is quite possibly profitable.

It's probably not worth making the changes on their own grounds, but when the time comes to renew/resignal the branch it may well be worth dropping Heysham.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Morecambe all day on 03/04/2022

Train information at Morecambe all day on 03/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Baxenden Bank]

It is probably one of those odd cases where the train is cheaper to operate. It is in marginal time that would otherwise be used for another round trip to Lancaster. It burns marginal diesel that would otherwise be burnt for another round trip to Lancaster. It uses traincrew who would...you're getting the idea.

The line itself can't be closed as it is used for nuclear waste from Heysham. That won't be open forever, but if the plans to build 8 new reactors go ahead I would be surprised if it didn't get another one - might as well use existing sites as it is cheaper and you won't get objections. So you're talking tiny additional track wear.

It thus costs little more than the cost of maintaining the track and platform at Heysham Port station, which as it is a bus shelter type arrangement is very low.

It feels like a basket case, but if 30 is a typical load it is quite possibly profitable.

I don't know the normal service, but from RTT it looks like the run to Heysham and back delays the return departure from Morecambe. So you'd be able to provide a more regular clock-face timetable if you got rid of the passenger service. You'd have more flexibility with crewing the service as the need for route knowledge would be simplified. At this point, saving even marginal diesel is good. A coach will use less fuel to Lancaster than the train to Heysham. It's not in marginal time, it shifts the paths back to Leeds around.

The cost of maintaining a freight only line is substantially lower than a passenger line, even one as low speed as Heysham. It would also potentially allow the track layouts and signalling from Hest Bank to Morecambe to be simplified.

It's probably not worth making the changes on their own grounds, but when the time comes to renew/resignal the branch it may well be worth dropping Heysham.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Morecambe all day on 03/04/2022

Train information at Morecambe all day on 03/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

What's the cost and capacity of a Parry People Mover? Isolated to trundle to and fro on the Heysham - Morecambe line with connections to proper trains at Morecambe. A better ie usable service for ordinary punters like my Aunt & Uncle who live quite close by.

 

[philthetube]

you would probably ned something which could accommodate 50 to be on the safe side. Through tickets can be bought to the isle of man via Heysham and so leaving people could prove expensive for the railway.