• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

3tph on North Downs Line

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nicholas Lewis

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
6,121
Location
Surrey
Multiple working happens on both Saturday and Sunday night now - in each case the rear unit is out of service. It is right to say that it hasn't been common in the past but it was not unknown for a failure to be attached to the rear of a suitable service when necessary.

On Saturdays, 1V68 2058 Gatwick Airport to Reading works in multiple from Redhill with the unit which arrives on 2O51 1924 Reading to Redhill
On Sundays, 1V65 2015 Gatwick Airport to Reading works in multiple from Redhill with the unit which arrives on 2O87 1847 Reading to Redhill

Interestingly, multiple working only appears to happen westbound, presumably because it be a nuisance to have a Redhill terminator on the back of a Gatwick service and having the front train out of use isn't practical. The current weekend timetables require units to work empty from Reading to Redhill at the start of service - eg 5V50 0538 Reading to Redhill on Saturday and 5V38 0733 Reading to Redhill on Sunday.
Thanks and having lived at Redhill for 30odd years I certainly don't recollect it as a booked passenger working. Personally in the current environment im surprised GWR have perpetuated this level of service as demand is light on Saturdays. Still has some merits weekdays as the Reigate college students are now coming and going all day long with there efforts to minimise numbers of students on the site through the day so helps with social distancing..
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Joined
5 Sep 2020
Messages
133
Location
Berkshire

Wilts Wanderer

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2016
Messages
2,488
The late night North Downs timetable has not yet been finalised, there is some issue relating to overnight stabling at Redhill since the points into the sidings were damaged back in September.
 

Nicholas Lewis

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
6,121
Location
Surrey
The late night North Downs timetable has not yet been finalised, there is some issue relating to overnight stabling at Redhill since the points into the sidings were damaged back in September.
NR are obliged by their licence as well as funded to fix an asset like this The points of the Tonbridge line are standard geometry bits of the yard maybe older but given the amount of junk piled up at Redhill P.Way im sure they can knock together serviceable set of yard points
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,880
The late night North Downs timetable has not yet been finalised, there is some issue relating to overnight stabling at Redhill since the points into the sidings were damaged back in September.
Is that a repeat occurrence? I recall a GWR unit getting stranded by derailing at the entry to Redhill stabling sidings in July 2019 - IIRC the unit had to be split into separate coaches for recovery. If it's happened twice in just over a year, does that suggest a continuing problem with the track there?
 

JN114

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2005
Messages
3,355
Is that a repeat occurrence? I recall a GWR unit getting stranded by derailing at the entry to Redhill stabling sidings in July 2019 - IIRC the unit had to be split into separate coaches for recovery. If it's happened twice in just over a year, does that suggest a continuing problem with the track there?

There was a derailment in July 2019. The cause of that derailment was not ultimately the condition of the track.

The sidings were out of use until September 2020 for repairs, and changes to methods of working - that is still ongoing, however the points in there have been secured with point clips to allow it to be used as a reversing siding (so no stabling).

Then in September there was an incident in a possession where a track machine or RRV (I forget which) ran through and broke a set of points. This has likely set back plans to bring the sidings back into use.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,880
There was a derailment in July 2019. The cause of that derailment was not ultimately the condition of the track.

The sidings were out of use until September 2020 for repairs, and changes to methods of working - that is still ongoing, however the points in there have been secured with point clips to allow it to be used as a reversing siding (so no stabling).

Then in September there was an incident in a possession where a track machine or RRV (I forget which) ran through and broke a set of points. This has likely set back plans to bring the sidings back into use.
Thanks for the explanation, I understand the sequence now.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
Interestingly, multiple working only appears to happen westbound, presumably because it be a nuisance to have a Redhill terminator on the back of a Gatwick service and having the front train out of use isn't practical. The current weekend timetables require units to work empty from Reading to Redhill at the start of service - eg 5V50 0538 Reading to Redhill on Saturday and 5V38 0733 Reading to Redhill on Sunday.

I guess they are DOO rather than guarded otherwise why not run them in service.
 

Wilts Wanderer

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2016
Messages
2,488
Platform lengths would be an issue!

There would in theory be an option to lock a rear set out of use if multi-set ECS, however this takes time.

Usually - other than DOO not requiring a guard - the reason things like this run ECS is because the need to run them is usually fairly short-notice (by long-term planning standards) and the need to acquire track access rights for additional passenger trains in the base plan is in advance, whereas for ECS it is a simpler process often done retrospectively. Also by committing to running a passenger train, what happens if the Redhill issue is suddenly fixed overnight - unlikely, but always possible - GWR is then stuck having to run a passenger train they don’t actually need to or want to, but has been advertised. Whereas conversely an ECS can be taken back out very easily.
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,669
Ah...

It was congestion mitigation as to why the train terminated at Redhill. NR were, rightly, trying to thin out the service a little at Gatwick to allow things to recover. When the decision was made (around the time the train was at North Camp), the fast lines through Gatwick were closed, and there was a train at every signal from Gatwick back to Redhill on the slows.

It was complicated by the fact that on the way back from Gatwick it attaches to the next stopper from Reading. I thought Three Bridges were going to shunt it over to Loco Sidings and back in on top of the stopper (which is due to run into London end of 0), but instead they decided to hold you outside until 0 was free and instructed the driver to go to the far end, causing an annoying reverse attachment that was then a pig to sort back out when it got back to Reading, as well as missed connections etc etc - 20/20 hindsight but if they’d said they were going to mess around like that I’dve fought harder for the train to go through...

Generally though the new TT works. It’s still a pain to recover from major disruption, but that’s more down to how it’s crewed, with the vast majority of trains out-and-back crews from Reading. There’s more to manage, but that’s not a bad thing in my book.
Thanks for the interesting info. It's interesting that there was a train at every singal because when I checked National Rail Enquiries live departure board for Redhill it wasn't showing any delays through Redhill for trains north of there heading south. I was kind of expecting to see delays into Redhill, if delays were occurring south of it. Hence why I then thought it wasn't the case when it was the case.

Now I didn't check this when I wast at Guildford but after the guard told me we wouldn't be terminating at Redhill but running through to Gatwick Airport. So at some point between Guildford and Dorking Deepdene. By which point I would have expected to see delays through Redhill Station but didn't.

I didn't however check Gatwick Airport but that would have shown all the trains from the Quarry Line. What I didn't know that this stage was that only platforms 1 to 3 were operating at Gatwick Airport.

I was rather surprised by the number of trains running through Gatwick Airport once I knew this. Even fast trains were being chopped. I don't know if it had been platforms 1 to 3 all day or just from the early evening. It looked like it was all day from the work going on.

Anyway the situatio has led to me being able to claim 12.5% delay repay, as I held a return ticket.

Glad to hear it seems to be going OK more generally.

I believe GWR needed to recruit from staff to run the additional services as part of the agreement.
 
Last edited:

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,392
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Platform lengths would be an issue!
Indeed, for example westbound at Betchworth would be OK, but not EB. Platforms have been extended at some stations on the route to cope with 769s (!!) but that's only 4 cars.

Incidentally, while walking near the railway today I noticed a 165 passing which had a slightly bolder silver stripe than usual to denote first class, but only over one window bay. The seating within the whole area from doors to cab all had anti-macassars, so is the stripe too short or has the seating not been amended (i.e. anti-macassars removed)? In other words, has the first class area been reduced to one seating bay? It has been at least a couple of years since the 165s started having their first class reinstated and it's terrible that it's taken so long to have even the current poor denotation applied (whether correctly or not). Heavy crop of photo attached.
DSC02812crop.jpeg

Thanks for the interesting info. It's interesting that there was a train at every singal because when I checked National Rail Enquiries live departure board for Redhill it wasn't showing any delays through Redhill for trains north of there heading south. I was kind of expecting to see delays into Redhill, if delays were occurring south of it. Hence why I then thought it wasn't the case when it was the case.

Now I didn't check this when I wast at Guildford but after the guard told me we wouldn't be stopping at Redhill. So at some point between Guildford and Dorking Deepdene. By which point I would have expected to see delays through Redhill Station but didn't.

I didn't however check Gatwick Airport but that would have shown all the trains from the Quarry Line. What I didn't know that this stage was that only platforms 1 to 3 were operating at Gatwick Airport.

I was rather surprised by the number of trains running through Gatwick Airport once I knew this. Even fast trains were being chopped. I don't know if it had been platforms 1 to 3 all day or just from the early evening. It looked like it was all day from the work going on.

Anyway the situatio has led to me being able to claim 12.5% delay repay, as I held a return ticket.

Glad to hear it seems to be going OK more generally.

I believe GWR needed to recruit from staff to run the additional services as part of the agreement.
How could you not stop at Redhill to get from Guildford to Gatwick? The train would have to reverse anyway.
 
Last edited:

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,669
Indeed, for example westbound at Betchworth would be OK, but not EB. Platforms have been extended at some stations on the route to cope with 769s (!!) but that's only 4 cars.

Incidentally, while walking near the railway today I noticed a 165 passing which had a slightly bolder silver stripe than usual to denote first class, but only over one window bay. The seating within the whole area from doors to cab all had anti-macassars, so is the stripe too short or has the seating not been amended (i.e. anti-macassars removed)? In other words, has the first class area been reduced to one seating bay? It has been at least a couple of years since the 165s started having their first class reinstated and it's terrible that it's taken so long to have even the current poor denotation applied (whether correctly or not). Heavy crop of photo attached.
View attachment 86430


How could you not stop at Redhill to get from Guildford to Gatwick? The train would have to reverse anyway.
I should have said terminating or finishing and not stopping.
 

ivorytoast28

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2018
Messages
176
Location
Sheffield
A PDF timetable from 13 December 2020 has now appeared on the GWR website.
https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/plan-journey/timetables/2020/december/t9-1220.pdf?la=en

This shows the last departures from Reading being 2134 and 2334 Monday to Friday, 2133 and 2334 Saturday.

However online journey planners are also showing departures at 2234 Monday to Friday, 2233 Saturday.

Does anyone know if this an error in the PDF?
Just looking at that timetable for the first time, and pleased to see the 3tph, but there will be an overtake at Guildford in both directions at around xx:15/xx:45 at the exact same times as a north bound Portsmouth-London and just a few minutes before the xx:23/xx:53 Gld-farnham services, how will this work for platforms at Guildford given that the farnham services will already be there on platform 6and the london service using platform 5? Platform 8 will be used for one but platform 4 will be in use minutes later for a southbound service, so will 3 be finally seeing some regualr use?
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
5,851
The fast Reading trains are around 4 minutes ahead of the Portsmouth-London trains, so they can both use Platform 5. The overtaken stopper uses Platform 8. From the Redhill/Portsmouth direction it's not possible to run in to Platform 4 at Guildford, and it's not possible to run from Platform 3 towards Reading.
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,669
The fast Reading trains are around 4 minutes ahead of the Portsmouth-London trains, so they can both use Platform 5. The overtaken stopper uses Platform 8. From the Redhill/Portsmouth direction it's not possible to run in to Platform 4 at Guildford, and it's not possible to run from Platform 3 towards Reading.
There are one or two exceptions as I found out when I boarded what I thought was a platform 8 stopper to Redhill, only to find myself going towards Reading. I thought the stopper departed platform 5 or something like that.
 
Last edited:

tornado

Member
Joined
6 Apr 2010
Messages
400
Looks like TFW might be first with the Class 769s. They are saying all-day service starting from December. Have any testing units actually been along the North Downs Line yet?
 

JN114

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2005
Messages
3,355
Looks like TFW might be first with the Class 769s. They are saying all-day service starting from December. Have any testing units actually been along the North Downs Line yet?

No, currently being used to train engineers on depot and various other acceptance tasks. They won’t be on N Downs first anyway
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,810
I thought they were starting life on the North Downs Line?
Somewhat easier to put them on Reading to Basingstoke or the Henley branch first where they won't be more than 16 miles from their home depot.

North Downs involves them going 50-odd miles from Reading and isn't really the right proving ground.
 

Clarence Yard

Established Member
Joined
18 Dec 2014
Messages
2,494
DC fault free running is scheduled to be done between Basingstoke and Southampton. They have been route-cleared recently by NR to enable this to happen.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,880
DC fault free running is scheduled to be done between Basingstoke and Southampton. They have been route-cleared recently by NR to enable this to happen.
Does that imply that they will be allowed to use the third rail on parts of the North Downs (or Brighton line) after all? Or have I missed somewhere else that they might use DC in service?
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,810
Does that imply that they will be allowed to use the third rail on parts of the North Downs (or Brighton line) after all? Or have I missed somewhere else that they might use DC in service?
Not sure how that follows - the DC capability has to be tested regardless of whether it is approved or not for day to day operation over a particular route.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,880
Not sure how that follows - the DC capability has to be tested regardless of whether it is approved or not for day to day operation over a particular route.
Thanks - it was just that I thought that they will only be used on diesel power in GWR service, so little point in confirming DC performance. But I suppose as they're regarded as bimodes then either the TOC or the ROSCO will want both modes proved.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
Thanks - it was just that I thought that they will only be used on diesel power in GWR service, so little point in confirming DC performance. But I suppose as they're regarded as bimodes then either the TOC or the ROSCO will want both modes proved.
Certainly planned to be used in AC mode, once it works.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,880
Certainly planned to be used in AC mode, once it works.
Sorry, good point, it was just DC and the North Downs I was thinking about, I was ignoring for the moment that they're due to be used on the Thames Valley branches as well as the NDL.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top