5 x 180s find home?

[pemma]

1. Its not enough for the TPE Scottish services (especially with TPE throwing more units at it at each timetable change)
3. Presumably this would mean an end to the portion working with Barrow services (plus the recently introduced Blackpool portion)

If you combine those two facts you could still have the Barrow portion workings on services that remain diagrammed as 185s or there could be more Blackpool services operating as portion workings with a Windermere train (I'm suggesting Barrow/Blackpool portion workings as that would mean the timetable wouldn't be clockface.)

 

[rail-britain]

Although there are some services on the Scotland diagrams that join/split, there are some that do not, and the Class 180s could be used exclusively on these
If a join/spilt does occur then that additional unit could operate part of the route only, typically to/from Preston
That too would release a unit

I don't have the diagrams, but having five Class 180s would probably release four Class 185 units (the fifth Class 180 would be "spare" or if all five are used then covered by a Class 185)

 

[pemma]

I imagine it would be 4 180 diagrams as I think a 185 may struggle to rescue a 180.

 

[route:oxford]

I've often wondered...

If the 180 had worked "out of the box" and had proved itself to be a bastion of reliability from the first trip down the GWML, would we have seen a fleet of 9 car units gradually supplant the HSTs?

 

[Invincibles]

Using the 180s for Manchester Airport to Scotland would seem to make sense. However this would presumably lead to the peak trains from Manchester that are currently formed as 2 x 185 seeing reduced capacity and as these are very busy to Bolton (usually possible to find somewhere to stand) that could be a problem.

There does seem to be no real reason not to add the Barrow or Windermere 185 to the Blackpool service that runs half an hour earlier and then in the worst case scenario make it wait at Preston to run in its normal path (thorough passengers could still get the xx15 from Piccadilly and change at Preston). This would then add useful capacity to the Manchester to Bolton/Chorley/Preston commuter flow and maybe that is what they are thinking of. (An added bonus would be that the xx45 from Piccadilly calls at Horwich Parkway improving conditions for anyone wanting to park and ride from there)

 

[rail-britain]

Using the 180s for Manchester Airport to Scotland would seem to make sense. However this would presumably lead to the peak trains from Manchester that are currently formed as 2 x 185 seeing reduced capacity and as these are very busy to Bolton (usually possible to find somewhere to stand) that could be a problem

How many of those 6 car services are going to Scotland?

There is one in the late evening that is a 6 car, splits for Glasgow and Edinburgh, and that would stay as a 6 car

If this plan is put together early enough then this fleet change could be applied or taken into consideration as part of the next timetable change
I know that FTPE were already considering dumping join/split on all the Scotland services, as some had already been affected by late running and all the subsequent consequences that brings

 

[Invincibles]

I was meaning that they attach Barrow or Windermere portions to the Scotland sets which provides the extra capacity until the split at Preston. I usually use the 1715 or 1815 from Piccadilly which are always very busy from Oxford Road and these were the ones I thought of when thinking about splits.

I had not realised there was a Glasgow and Edinburgh splitting train.

 

[turbo mick]

ive heard today whilst at work FGW or getting 5 180s back to cover for maintance for replacing turbo chargers within the fleet of HSTs than will mean retraining a few Drivers again.

cheers

mick

 

[Aictos]

Hopefully they will go on Oxford workings with the odd one going to Bristol.

 

[MCR247]

deleted

 

[pemma]

I know that FTPE were already considering dumping join/split on all the Scotland services, as some had already been affected by late running and all the subsequent consequences that brings

It also was the intention that Scottish services would return to Virgin (or the new operator of West Coast) following electrification so portion workings with North West services would be out of the question.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Using the 180s for Manchester Airport to Scotland would seem to make sense. However this would presumably lead to the peak trains from Manchester that are currently formed as 2 x 185 seeing reduced capacity and as these are very busy to Bolton (usually possible to find somewhere to stand) that could be a problem.

180s have 287 seats - 185s have 154, so a doubled up 185 has 308. If TPE do with the 180s like they did with the 170s and reduce the number of FC seats and also remove the buffet then they could make a 180 have the same number of seats as a pair of 185s.

 

[TheWalrus]

Hopefully they will go on Oxford workings with the odd one going to Bristol.

Prioritise them on London-Taunton/Exeter semi-fasts, then the Cotswolds.

 

[Ivo]

Prioritise them on London-Taunton/Exeter semi-fasts, then the Cotswolds.

Trust you to say that It would allow easy extensions beyond Bedwyn to Westbury though.

In my opinion, they are too small for Bristol services. Even during off-peak periods finding a seat can be a problem at times, and you're effectively halving the First Class capacity as well. And having used First Class a few times on the route, I can tell you that that may not be advisable.

I do actually agree with Walrus. Perhaps some bright spark could even invent a route which reverses at Westbury to Bristol, using a 180 (assuming the loading gauge is not a problem; HSTs are clear), increasing the capacity on both the B&H and Bristol-Westbury in one go? (Weymouth trains could terminate at Westbury.)

 

[pemma]

ive heard today whilst at work FGW or getting 5 180s back to cover for maintance for replacing turbo chargers within the fleet of HSTs than will mean retraining a few Drivers again.

Looks like we're going to have as many different rumours as when the 180s left FGW. At least this time no-one should suggest London Overground.

 

[jon0844]

I heard they were going to put rubber tyres on them and use them on the Cambridge guided busway....

 

[turbo mick]

Aslef DFC rep at my depot confirmed the 180s are returning to FGW dont know which route they will be covering though

 

[Ivo]

I heard they were going to put rubber tyres on them and use them on the Cambridge guided busway....

 

[Aictos]

Looking forward to using them on FGW then!

 

[Pumbaa]

I heard this early this month but instantly rubbished it. fGW couldn't wait to be shot of them.

Makes sense though. A rarity on the railway.

 

[Class 33]

Would be surprised if FGW got any back again. As I thought they didn't want anything more to do with these trains! (Even though they are nice trains at that)

 

[jon0844]

Nice trains, when they're working and/or not on fire.

I can see why some people might have some reservations about having them! However, I did say years ago - why can't they just be fixed to be more reliable? A modern train shouldn't be broken, and if GC or Hull Trains can make them work better then they should be perfectly good trains to operate.

 

[Bastiaan]

Aren't they perfect for the London - Oxford / Great Malvern / Hereford services then? They are shorter than a HST and I bet they have better acceleration. And unlike the Turbos they can reach 125 mph between London and Didcot. This would save HSTs which can be used on other services

 

[devon_metro]

Aren't they perfect for the London - Oxford / Great Malvern / Hereford services then?

Off Peak yes, however you then have the issue of what to do with 5 carriage 125mph DMUs during the peak hours!

 

[Ivo]

Re-work the timetable to send them down to Southampton from the Malvern area

 

[swt_passenger]

FGW have struggled like mad over the last few years to get enough 150s arranged to run the current timetable. DfT aren't likely to allow any 180s, and that's without taking First Group's purchase of HSTs into account, I believe mainly so they could get rid of the 180s, IIRC.

 

[tbtc]

Surely the best thing to do is give *all* 180s to Grand Central, then they might have a chance of managing to run all of their scheduled services?

 

[Crossforth]

Then what about Hull Trains and Northern? But more so Hull Trains

 

[90019]

Then what about Hull Trains and Northern? But more so Hull Trains

Hull Trains can get Grand Central's HSTs with MTUs until they can get something else.

 

[Crossforth]

But GC really don't need 14 180s

 

[Ivo]

How many would they need if they did introduce the Lincoln service?