Western 52
Established Member
RTT has tomorrow's 1W16 0703 Milford Haven to Manchester as 2 x 153s at the moment. Will be cosy as there's rugby in Cardiff!
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
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Lewisham2221
Established Member
Now showing as swap to a 197 at Cardiff. Still a 2-car though.
The diagram with the 1730 Manchester - Cardiff is currently showing as a 150 and the diagram which splits at Manchester to form the 2130 and 2230 departures is currently showing as a 150+153+153
1730 departure from Piccadilly was 197119 according to RTT
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
The inbound service to MAN was run as 1Z60
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
The arrival into MAN which splits is now 197006 and 049
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
So the 150s and 153s have been swapped out from these Marches services
Realtime Trains | 1V60 1730 Manchester Piccadilly to Cardiff Central | 23/11/2024
Real-time train running information for 1V60 1730 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Cardiff Central on 23/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
The inbound service to MAN was run as 1Z60
Realtime Trains | 1Z60 1355 Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly | 23/11/2024
Real-time train running information for 1Z60 1355 departure from Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly on 23/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
The arrival into MAN which splits is now 197006 and 049
Realtime Trains | 1W24 1509 Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly | 23/11/2024
Real-time train running information for 1W24 1509 departure from Milford Haven to Manchester Piccadilly on 23/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
So the 150s and 153s have been swapped out from these Marches services
I see 19 out of 58 units are on stop today.
A very good 67% availability.
We are now also seeing the constraints imposed with the additional units being added on the Chester maintenance depot.
Multiple units being pulled out of service for faults and several not getting water added for the toilets so are forced to remain coupled to another unit all day.
Looks like units are also going to be left at Holyhead and Shrewsbury for storage unit there is capacity to deal with them at Chester.
A very good 67% availability.
We are now also seeing the constraints imposed with the additional units being added on the Chester maintenance depot.
Multiple units being pulled out of service for faults and several not getting water added for the toilets so are forced to remain coupled to another unit all day.
Looks like units are also going to be left at Holyhead and Shrewsbury for storage unit there is capacity to deal with them at Chester.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
I hope to God that’s sarcasm.
Anonymous10
Established Member
Can't they have the water topped up at canton? Can they be topped up for the loos at outstations like Carmarthen?
They can be topped.up at various places throughout the network. Unfortunately there's been a huge amount of disruption this weekend which has seen units out of place completely and sending out pairs of units with 1 fully working Is the least bad option. Unfortunately even when water is there, the toilets on the 197s are dreadfully unreliable and a lot of the out of service ones are faults rather than lack of water.
Currently 197112 is stored at Shrewsbury and 197011/117 are being/have been sent to Holyhead for store to keep Chester free of broken units.
What on gods great earth do you mean son ?
1/3 of the fleet out of action seems perfectly adequate!
(Sarcasm fully intended for both posts
)Assuming the design hasn't changed from the seat plans I have (when it was still known as 'First Class' rather than 'Standard Plus') then there is no toilet at all in the relevant carriage.
The centre coach has a small (non-wheelchair-accessible) toilet. The 'catering cupboard', both wheelchair spaces and the accessible toilet are all in the other driving vehicle.
Does that apply to both the accessible toilets and the small toilets in the centre coaches or is one type of toilet reliable?
Both have many issues, the accessible ones are worse as the door issues something else to go wrong compared to the manual door of the small toilet.
There's been lots of work going into bringing them upto scratch and they've improved slightly but still have issues.
I'm not familiar with the exact layout but could the seats be moved around so SP is in the vicinity of the PRM toilet but also available to standard passengers requiring in?
Obviously it would require some investment but given what's already been spent on having the area, it also seems a complete waste as it is.
Thanks for the answer.
I'm not sure how TfW/KeolisAmey thought they could get away with it; either at the initial order for the class 197s with First Class or the subsequent rebranding from First Class to Standard Plus. If I recall correctly TPE's NOVA fleets were a little way ahead of TfW in the order queue. I think TPE got around the issue of duplicated wheelchair facilities by putting them in First Class and offering free upgrades to disabled passengers travelling on standard class tickets.
The suituation with the 197s however doesn't seem to be lend itself to that, since the wheelchair toilet and the catering cupboard can't really be moved without rebuilding the entire unit* and the First Class area is larger than the space between the wheelchair toilet and catering cupboard. Even if that space was big enough, you would be left with an isolated bit of standard class beyond the first class / standard plus section.
As I wrote above, the 'declassified' First Class (Standard Plus) is currently in the other driving vehicle from the catering cupboard and PRM toilet. The formation (going by the seat plans I have) is:
- DMSL:
- < cab, standard class, bike (& luggage) space, catering cupboard, more standard class, wheelchair spaces, PRM toilet
- MSL:
- standard class, bike (& luggage) space, more standard class, small toilet
- DMS (First Class):
- standard class, First Class, cab >
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Markdvdman
Member
I am on the 6:15am Llanelli to Manchester service this am. A 153 and a 150. According to realtimetrains no change at Cardiff. Running ok at the moment as I am getting off ar Bridgend. Mind you the 150 is smoother towards Swansea than the 197s crazy that.
BillStampy
Member
Swapping for 197107 from Cardiff I'm pretty sure, taking it from Ebbw Vale.
Markdvdman
Member
Probably correct as though realtimetrains has not changed it 15 mins late from Cardiff suspects that is so
Swapped at Cardiff for a 3 coach 197 after some confusion for the passengers. Personally glad I didn't have to suffer a 150 all the way to Manchester.
childwallblues
Established Member
197017 on 1H83 0740 Llandudno to Manchester Airport failed at Frodsham at 0910 this morning with a door problem. The passengers were obviously put off the train and 197017 ran on to Frodsham Junction and reversed to run back to Chester at 1003 as 5H83. There were afew delays behind the failed train.
195015/008 on 1E56 Chester to Leeds was held for 28 minutes.
197115 on 1f94 0943 Chester to Liverpool Lime Street was held at Chester for 29 minutes and terminated at Liverpool South Parkway.
197118 on 1H84 0842 Llandudno to Manchester Airport was held at Chester for 25 minutes and terminated at Manchester Oxford Road Platform 3.
197003 on 1D03 Liverpool Lime Street to Chester was held at Runcorn for 9 minutes whilst the demic was cleared from Frodsham Junction.
195015/008 on 1E56 Chester to Leeds was held for 28 minutes.
197115 on 1f94 0943 Chester to Liverpool Lime Street was held at Chester for 29 minutes and terminated at Liverpool South Parkway.
197118 on 1H84 0842 Llandudno to Manchester Airport was held at Chester for 25 minutes and terminated at Manchester Oxford Road Platform 3.
197003 on 1D03 Liverpool Lime Street to Chester was held at Runcorn for 9 minutes whilst the demic was cleared from Frodsham Junction.
WirralLine
Member
197003 has caused problems today also with a wiper fault, currently attached to 006 at Shrewsbury.
Diedinium
Member
Happened on Abbey Foregate yard a few days back, in the early hours of the morning.
Jacob Porrett
Member
197027 was delivered to Crewe depot today from Long Marston by a pair of 20s and 43s from Rail Adventure.
tfw756rider
Member
Did a 58th 197 enter service at some point? I have it as 57 (out of 77) 197s that have been in service (in unit number order, not chronological order):
1-2: 197001/002
3: 197003 (Cambrian unit "off-Cambrian")
4-21: 197004/005/006/007/008/009/010/011/012/013/014/015/016/017/018/019/020/021
22-23: 197030/033 (Cambrian units "off-Cambrian")
24-33: 197042/043/044/045/046/047/048/049/050/051
34-57: 101/102/103/104/105/106/107/108/109/110/111/112/113/114/115/116/117/118/119/120/121/122/124/125 (24 out of 26 3-car units)
So I have it as 20 (out of 77) 197s that haven't yet been in service:
1-18: 197022/023/024/025/026/027/028/029/031/032/034/035/036/037/038/039/040/041 (Cambrian units)
19-20: 197123/126 (last two remaining 3-car units)
197031 is the 58th, was on the accepted list and was taken to Canton several weeks ago but as far as I'm aware hasn't left since.
tfw756rider
Member
Thanks for letting us know
How many diagrams will the 197's have tomorrow? Will be checking RTT as interested in seeing how many are in service compared to diagrams and if any are split at Swansea as per the plans for the West Wales to Manchester services (whether that be pairs of 2 cars or a 2 + 3 car)
As for the Cambrian units yes 4 acccepted into service as far as I know but dont think the outstanding 3 cars (2 of them) have yet to be accepted?
As for the Cambrian units yes 4 acccepted into service as far as I know but dont think the outstanding 3 cars (2 of them) have yet to be accepted?
BillStampy
Member
I know 123 and 126 haven't entered service and I do not know where 101 is. But yes, 123 and 126 I believe are yet to be accepted but are built and out on test
Thanks for the update and fingers crossed it wont be too long before we see 123 and 126 in service. They are very much needed with the planned increase in diagrams for the 197s.
Are 197s still to be booked for the Maesteg/Ebbw Vales still or expected to the Sprinters as less of them needed on Valley's now?
There's 47 197 diagrams tomorrow, 26 197/0 2 car diagrams, 197 9 197/1 and 12 197/2 (standard plus), in practice that'll be 21 3 car and 26 2 car diagrams on paper.
Manchester services are all booked 5 car between 0627 and 1830, alternative Mk4 and 197 although a couple are already missing tomorrow, the 1930, 2030 are booked to split so a 3 and 2 car respectively.
For the other fleets diagrams look to be:
23x150s
17x153s
17x 158s
2x 230s
8x 231
3x 756
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Express380
Member
Very helpful thank you
Does this bring an end to Sprinters on Ebbw Vale, Maesteg, Cheltenham workings or is it likely to see them still on those routes?