Cat stuck down Liverpool railway embankment

[gorilladan]

For heavens sake :roll:

If the thing won't come out, then frankly tough. It's a cat, not a small child. NR has better and far more important things to spend it's time and money on. Any further efforts should result in the owner paying the bill.

+1
Should the animal be shot dead to prevent possible trespass/ill-fated amateur rescue attempts ? I'm not keen on this solution but it is an option that should be given consideration due to the wider safety concerns.

 

[Bletchleyite]

+1
Should the animal be shot dead to prevent possible trespass/ill-fated amateur rescue attempts ? I'm not keen on this solution but it is an option that should be given consideration due to the wider safety concerns.

They'd have a job if they can't find it!

 

[Antman]

For heavens sake :roll:

If the thing won't come out, then frankly tough. It's a cat, not a small child. NR has better and far more important things to spend it's time and money on. Any further efforts should result in the owner paying the bill.

You sound like a bundle of compassion!

The fire brigade often rescue cats from trees, trapped birds etc.

 

[BestWestern]

You sound like a bundle of compassion!

The fire brigade often rescue cats from trees, trapped birds etc.

Yes, they do. Whether it's an appropriate use of expensive resources is highly debateable. Should we send an ambulance out every time a cat is run over too, just in case it can be saved? Cats have wild instincts, there is no reason one shouldn't be able to survive on a wooded railway embankment. This is far more about the desire of the owners than it is about the welfare of the cat.

If people want the public emergency services to run around attempting to retrieve their personal property, then they should be billed for it accordingly. If your wallet, mobile phone or laptop is lost, the police don't go out combing the streets for it. They're loathed even to bother if your car gets nicked! How much do you think it costs to send the fire service and a gang of Network Rail bods out to look for a lost pet? It's a bloody cat! :roll:

 

[Antman]

Yes, they do. Whether it's an appropriate use of expensive resources is highly debateable. Should we send an ambulance out every time a cat is run over too, just in case it can be saved? Cats have wild instincts, there is no reason one shouldn't be able to survive on a wooded railway embankment. This is far more about the desire of the owners than it is about the welfare of the cat.

If people want the public emergency services to run around attempting to retrieve their personal property, then they should be billed for it accordingly. If your wallet, mobile phone or laptop is lost, the police don't go out combing the streets for it. They're loathed even to bother if your car gets nicked! How much do you think it costs to send the fire service and a gang of Network Rail bods out to look for a lost pet? It's a bloody cat! :roll:

Actually rescuing animals is often good training for the fire brigade and they can still deal with an emergency calls that come in.

To the owner it's not.........only a bloody cat:roll:

 

[SPADTrap]

It is a difficult one. I was unfortunate enough for two dogs and their walker to step out in front of my train a while back. Fortunately, the train missed the walker but the two dogs were not so fortunate. I wasn't overly affected but a week later my girlfriend and I got our first dog and if that happened now it would be a different story. I can sympathise, but if reasonable effort has been carried out I too would understand that and know when to leave it.

 

[Saint66]

I am a huge cat person, and animal person in general, so have a lot sympathy. However, the main issue seems to be that NR simply cant find the animal in the given location, so really what they can do is limited apart from setting the trap.

 

[Camden]

Some of the comments on here, really.

Any animal in distress and peril, even the most obnoxious of human beings, warrants the giving of immediate assistance should they require it.

Obviously there are those times when you can do little else but have a sinking heart knowing there is nothing you can do. Although I wouldn't say that powering down a railway line meets that criteria.

What a soulless and superficial existence it must be to truly believe you're more "valuable" to the world just because of what you were born as.

 

[BestWestern]

Actually rescuing animals is often good training for the fire brigade and they can still deal with an emergency calls that come in.

To the owner it's not.........only a bloody cat:roll:

To my small children their hamsters were the universe. Are they worth thousands of pounds of public money as well? It's about the bigger picture. To everyone else, it is just a cat. It's of roughly zero importance to society. We don't judge the value of things based on owners' sentiment and that is a for a very good reason. Again, if people want their sentiment to take priority over overall value, then they need to be paying for it.

 

[AverageTD]

I know someone who has lost a cat before and it's very sad and despite feeling sympathy for the lady I think service as normal should be resumed. It seems trains run frequently on the line so some people would be disrupted. If I lost my pet I would be devastated but if a search would disrupt many other people then I would have to move on. If this owner is so desperate to find the cat then maybe search at night when there are no trains. Cats are very sensitive at night and may recognise the smell of the owner.

I hope that she finds her cat but without having to disrupt other rail users

 

[BestWestern]

Some of the comments on here, really.

Any animal in distress and peril, even the most obnoxious of human beings, warrants the giving of immediate assistance should they require it.

Obviously there are those times when you can do little else but have a sinking heart knowing there is nothing you can do. Although I wouldn't say that powering down a railway line meets that criteria.

What a soulless and superficial existence it must be to truly believe you're more "valuable" to the world just because of what you were born as.

How do we know that it is "in distress and peril"? Nobody can find the damn thing, can they. Again, this is more about the owners wanting their cat back than any evidence that the cat is in trouble, or even that it's actually in the suggested area.

As for "valuable", humans are more "valuable" to human society than domestic animals, that's just how our world works. If it were a child lost, the situation would rightly be entirely different.

 

[Llanigraham]

You sound like a bundle of compassion!

The fire brigade often rescue cats from trees, trapped birds etc.

And some Fire & Rescue Services now issue a bill to cover their costs on these callouts.

 

[6Gman]

Some of the comments on here, really.

Any animal in distress and peril, even the most obnoxious of human beings, warrants the giving of immediate assistance should they require it.

Obviously there are those times when you can do little else but have a sinking heart knowing there is nothing you can do. Although I wouldn't say that powering down a railway line meets that criteria.

What a soulless and superficial existence it must be to truly believe you're more "valuable" to the world just because of what you were born as.

The problem with that logic is that if we take the view that "any animal" is equally valuable then we will have to live a very strange existence.

Cats? Rabbits? Rats? Ants? Lice? Tapeworms?

 

[Camden]

The problem with that logic is that if we take the view that "any animal" is equally valuable then we will have to live a very strange existence.

Cats? Rabbits? Rats? Ants? Lice? Tapeworms?

What's strange about not thinking yourself some kind of superior super-being??

It doesn't take that much effort to consider others. Seeing other animals as objects, rather than as living beings just as worthy as ourselves, isn't normal, but is itself a rather a strange existence.

A strong sense of empathy is a key differentiator between a human and the sorts of animals that some like to think themselves more valuable over. What conclusion can we draw if people cannot exercise that?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How do we know that it is "in distress and peril"? Nobody can find the damn thing, can they.

It might not even *be* there.

 

[BestWestern]

What's strange about not thinking yourself some kind of superior super-being??

It doesn't take that much effort to consider others. Seeing other animals as objects, rather than as living beings just as worthy as ourselves, isn't normal, but is itself a rather a strange existence.

A strong sense of empathy is a key differentiator between a human and the sorts of animals that some like to think themselves more valuable over. What conclusion can we draw if people cannot exercise that?

Caring for other living things is not the same as exercising a belief that the 'rescue' of a supposedly lost cat is an equal priority to the preservation of human life. Everything has a cost, even life. Literally, it has a price tag. X won't happen if Y is too expensive. That's how a society functions, otherwise human progress would never happen. A cat has a very significantly lower price tag than a human.

 

[Camden]

Caring for other living things is not the same as exercising a belief that the 'rescue' of a supposedly lost cat is an equal priority to the preservation of human life. Everything has a cost, even life. Literally, it has a price tag. X won't happen if Y is too expensive. That's how a society functions, otherwise human progress would never happen. A cat has a very significantly lower price tag than a human.

I think you must have a very narrow view of what "human progress" looks like.

"Cost" is an entirely artificial concept solely developed by humans to facilitate exchange and collaboration. Yes, money does presently rule our lives through our governments, however it doesn't define existence nor can it place value on life.

To value any life in terms of "cost" and to believe in a pecking order of existence that is based on monetary value is very limited.

 

[BestWestern]

I think you must have a very narrow view of what "human progress" looks like.

"Cost" is an entirely artificial concept solely developed by humans to facilitate exchange. Yes, money does presently rule our lives through our governments, however it doesn't define existence nor can it place value on life.

To value any life in terms of "cost" and to believe in a pecking order of existence that is based on monetary value is very limited.

Just to remind you, it's a cat we're talking about here. A cat...

 

[westv]

Equal rights for pussies!

 

[Camden]

Just to remind you, it's a cat we're talking about here. A cat...

And that attitude is exactly what I'm talking about.

It doesn't matter what type of animal is stuck, possibly injured, possibly expiring through thirst.

If it was a human, I would be just as insistent that turning the power off to have a thorough search is reasonable.

 

[Merseysider]

"Cost" is an entirely artificial concept solely developed by humans to facilitate exchange and collaboration. Yes, money does presently rule our lives through our governments, however it doesn't define existence nor can it place value on life.

To value any life in terms of "cost" and to believe in a pecking order of existence that is based on monetary value is very limited.

...

It doesn't matter what type of animal is stuck, possibly injured, possibly expiring through thirst.

If it was a human, I would be just as insistent that turning the power off to have a thorough search is reasonable.

Entirely agree.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Cost" is an entirely artificial concept solely developed by humans to facilitate exchange and collaboration. Yes, money does presently rule our lives through our governments, however it doesn't define existence nor can it place value on life.

While I do share your disquiet over it, it can, and it actually does. A human life actually does have a price, used to calculate the value of things like road safety improvements.

 

[BestWestern]

And that attitude is exactly what I'm talking about.

It doesn't matter what type of animal is stuck, possibly injured, possibly expiring through thirst.

If it was a human, I would be just as insistent that turning the power off to have a thorough search is reasonable.

Nobody even knows where the cat is. This is not an animal lying suffering in the middle of the road. It is a report of a cat which hasn't come home. The owners have reached the conclusion that it must be down an embankment. Efforts have already been undertaken to locate it, and it hasn't been found there. What else would you suggest, really?!

There is no excuse for animal cruelty, our society generally agrees with that, but that is very different from what is being debated here.

 

[Camden]

The reports I have read have suggested that owner can hear the cat calling out.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reports I have read have suggested that owner can hear the cat calling out.

They think they can, but it's quite possible they are hearing another cat or one in another location.

 

[AlterEgo]

It doesn't matter what type of animal is stuck, possibly injured, possibly expiring through thirst.

Although I think NR could be more helpful in this case, what you've said is barmy, to be fair.

Where do you draw the line? A mouse? A sparrow? Ants?

 

[Camden]

Although I think NR could be more helpful in this case, what you've said is barmy, to be fair.

Where do you draw the line? A mouse? A sparrow? Ants?

Well that's your view, I can only hope that you have the pleasure of an enlightenment at some point.

 

[Bantamzen]

Even though I like cats, I do feel calls to shut the line down until it is found are unreasonable. Cats are very hardy creatures, and more than capable of surviving in the wild if needs be. And they are equally capable for getting themselves out of some very sticky situations when they have to.

The owners says they can hear the cat calling, but we have to remember that cats have only developed the meow for us humans, or more to the point to attract our attention for food or assistance. A cat meowing is not necessarily a sign of distress, it could just be thinking it might be easier to get a human to help out in the same way that they sometimes get "stuck" up trees and call to passing humans to help. But you leave one long enough and it will almost always find a way down. So the cat in question is probably only calling because its aware of humans being around. So long as it is not severely injured, it will make its own way out when it gets hungry. However cats can also be fickle, and not returning straight home is not necessarily a sign that it is still stuck, it just might be that it is exploring new ground and enjoying an expansion of it's empire.

 

[al78]

Well that's your view, I can only hope that you have the pleasure of an enlightenment at some point.

I can see both sides of the argument here. On one hand, with a domesticated pet like a cat, the owner has a similar emotional connection as with a relative, so the loss of the cat/dog/whatever will result in similar grief. On the other hand, there has to be a limit on what is practical, taking action can have side effects, which can in themselves be undesirable.

It comes down to a compromise between logic and emotion. I prefer to give weight to logic over emotion but there can be circumstances where cold hard logic is inappropriate. Emotion and empathy are what differentiates us from machines. As I haven't seen the location and am not familiar with the operation of the rail network I am not going to judge.

 

[BestWestern]

I can see both sides of the argument here. On one hand, with a domesticated pet like a cat, the owner has a similar emotional connection as with a relative, so the loss of the cat/dog/whatever will result in similar grief. On the other hand, there has to be a limit on what is practical, taking action can have side effects, which can in themselves be undesirable.

It comes down to a compromise between logic and emotion. I prefer to give weight to logic over emotion but there can be circumstances where cold hard logic is inappropriate. Emotion and empathy are what differentiates us from machines. As I haven't seen the location and am not familiar with the operation of the rail network I am not going to judge.

'Owners grief' also has to be weighed against 'mass inconvenience to the travelling public, large bill to Network Rail (i.e. the taxpayer) and potential for emergency services resources to be delayed or unavailable for more serious requirements elsewhere'.
I really don't think "I love my cat" will ever be seen as the stronger argument by anybody with a sensible, 'bigger picture' viewpoint.