Class 319 Northern departure

[Jamesrob637]

Sims don’t seem to have taken three-unit consists (except Pacers possibly) since the current round of scrapping started. I think they did when the slam-door units went there in the 2000s though.

Didn't slam-door commuter trains last until something like summer '05? They were well past it by the end of the 90s!

 

[david l]

319s both north and south are officially done, jobs up here that could use a 319 have been a mix of DMU and 331s but all seem to be 331s and 323s today anyway.

319's were 'ad hoc' from the Dec tt change, but with no booked diagrams. Were used until sufficient 331/1's arrived from Yorkshire, with all now across and in use. The only 319's in passenger service this year have been 319368 on Liverpool-Manchester Airport/Wigan NW on 2 Jan, with 319369 on Wigan-Man Vic (via Chat Moss) on 1 Jan.
Understand that a 'do not use' was issued after the above uses, and as 319369 has now gone from Springs Branch to Allerton today to join 319379/86, these are the last three in Northernland.
There don't appear to have been many (if any) cancellations since Jan 1 due to stock issues, a few DMU substitutions have been noted, but now as the 769's are back up to (and amazingly are working) 6 diagrams per day this has freed up several DMU's. Cancellations appear to be generally down to lack of conductors, as can be seen from services running ECS to their next duty.

 

[8A Rail]

Pic of the final working at Edge Hill has appeared on Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/rf100/53449464868/in/dateposted/

319369 working

2C31 2052 Wigan North Western to Liverpool Lime Street​

That was 319368.

The final working of a 'live' Class 319, was yesterday, No 319369 on 5Z85 11:45 Springs Branch to Allerton (via Lime Street) ECS.

See: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:35437/2024-01-11/detailed

 

[Jamesrob637]

Any scrap moves this week? Either these or LNWR examples.

 

[diligentdave]

Any scrap moves this week? Either these or LNWR examples.

319379 & 319386 due to go on Friday 19th Jan.

 

[Jamesrob637]

319379 & 319386 due to go on Friday 19th Jan.

Path will presumably be activated later today or tomorrow.

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 0N36 0339 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Lichfield Trent Valley | 19/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 0N36 0339 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Lichfield Trent Valley on 19/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q76 0758 Allerton Depot to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 19/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q76 0758 departure from Allerton Depot to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 19/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[stan claire]

That’ll be the final pair to be going, right?
It really is the end of an era

 

[Jamesrob637]

That’ll be the final pair to be going, right?
It really is the end of an era

Just one more after. 378.

 

[3973EXL]

Just one more after. 378.

319369

378 left on 29/11

 

[Greybeard33]

It really is the end of an era

Not quite the end of the 319 era, because the eight 769s will be staying with Northern until next year at least. Remember they were still 319/4s when they first entered service with Northern, before they were sent off to have the diesel engines slung underneath.

 

[GhostManDN91]

Yep agree with you there. The 769s I'm thankful we're keeping albeit not the fastest trains they have really apart from between Salford Crescent and Bolton. Shame they're not allowed to run at more than 75mph max speed though. Correct me if I'm wrong though with the max speed part.

 

[reecestrains]

So when the 769's leave Northern, they'll be losing the bi-mode trains there.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So when the 769's leave Northern, they'll be losing the bi-mode trains there.

And, why is that an issue? The 769s won't be leaving until electrification of the Bolton and Stalybridge lines is complete, by which time they won't need bi-mode trains, they'll need electric ones. It's a good thing, not a bad thing. A very, very good thing, in fact, if you account for their age, speed, reliability and what appears to be a general consensus* about here about the on-board ambience.

*Not said with objectivity

 

[DJH1971]

And, why is that an issue? The 769s won't be leaving until electrification of the Bolton and Stalybridge lines is complete, by which time they won't need bi-mode trains, they'll need electric ones. It's a good thing, not a bad thing. A very, very good thing, in fact, if you account for their age, speed, reliability and what appears to be a general consensus* about here about the on-board ambience.

*Not said with objectivity

Erm, what about the Southport to Manchester trains that do use bi-mode 769's?

 

[Greybeard33]

Erm, what about the Southport to Manchester trains that do use bi-mode 769's?

See this thread:

How should Moses Gate, Farnworth, Kearsley and Clifton be served once Wigan to Bolton electrification is complete?

Has there been any information on how 6-car 323 (138m) formations are expected to serve Moses Gate (85m), Farnworth (100m), Kearsley (109/126m) and Clifton (95m)? Only the hourly Southport diesel service calls at those stations. Presently. There's the possibility/expectation of a timetable...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Erm, what about the Southport to Manchester trains that do use bi-mode 769's?

Once the Westhoughton line electrification is complete it's expected that all Southport-Manchester services will run via Atherton for which bi-modes would be pointless as trains will likely be going either to Oxford Road or Victoria/Rochdale/etc.

 

[The_Train]

Looks like today's move has fallen - loco only got as far as Lichfield Trent Valley as far as I can see

319369 is in the siding alongside the Merseyrail lines, penned in by 769442

 

[Jamesrob637]

Realtime Trains | 0N36 0339 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Lichfield Trent Valley | 19/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 0N36 0339 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Lichfield Trent Valley on 19/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q76 0758 Allerton Depot to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 19/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q76 0758 departure from Allerton Depot to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 19/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Something has run, but only as far as Crewe

 

[3973EXL]

Something has run, but only as far as Crewe

Two different 5Q76 schedules which some confused timings.

Realtime Trains | 5Q76 0933 Crewe C.S. to Crewe | 19/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q76 0933 departure from Crewe C.S. to Crewe on 19/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q76 0758 Allerton Depot to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 19/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q76 0758 departure from Allerton Depot to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 19/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Do we have a move for 369 penned in?

 

[Ribbleman]

Once the Westhoughton line electrification is complete it's expected that all Southport-Manchester services will run via Atherton for which bi-modes would be pointless as trains will likely be going either to Oxford Road or Victoria/Rochdale/etc.

I wondered that and put the question to two Northern managers at a meeting last week. The reply was that although no firm decisions have been made about the future of the 769s, they said that there is a well established direct connection between Southport and Bolton which they would be loathe to break by diverting trains from Southport to run via Atherton. Whilst I can see the reasoning behind the assumption that trains from Southport would go that way, be they 150/156 or 769s, it seems that that might not be the case.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I wondered that and put the question to two Northern managers at a meeting last week. The reply was that although no firm decisions have been made about the future of the 769s, they said that there is a well established direct connection between Southport and Bolton which they would be loathe to break by diverting trains from Southport to run via Atherton. Whilst I can see the reasoning behind the assumption that trains from Southport would go that way, be they 150/156 or 769s, it seems that that might not be the case.

Given the electrification is not going to Wallgate it's difficult to see how the future service routings could be any different to those I have outlined. I'm well aware that breaking the link between Southport line stations and Bolton would be decidedly unpopular but refusing to make the maximum use of newly electrified lines doesn't help to make the case for any future wirings. If the 769s were very much more reliable then the performance risk of them switching modes at somewhere like Hindley to allow the Southport-Bolton link to continue might be more acceptable. Perhaps Northern's management are looking into that issue...

 

[DJH1971]

Once the Westhoughton line electrification is complete it's expected that all Southport-Manchester services will run via Atherton for which bi-modes would be pointless as trains will likely be going either to Oxford Road or Victoria/Rochdale/etc.

So back to Sprinters or 195's for the Southport services then?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

So back to Sprinters or 195's for the Southport services then?

Almost certainly Sprinters! Seeing 195s in Wigan, other than when the Cumbrian services ran via Chat Moss, only happened for the brief spell they were used on Leeds-Wigan services. These days that service is predominantly 158s which will surely be the best that can be expected for future Southport services. Otherwise it'll be back to the future with 156s as the premium stock on the route.

 

[D7666]

Monday 11th December, subject to the usual alterations:

319361

Springs B 06+11 5V01FE
Wigan NW 06+25 06.36 2V01FA
Mancr Vic 07.07 07.13 2G91FN
Wigan NW 07.47 08.36 2V03FA
Mancr Vic 09.09 09.13 2G93FN
Wigan NW 09.46 10+09 5W03FE
Springs B 10+22

319372 The White Knight

PrstnCtSS 07+15 5V02
Wigan NW 07+36 07.39 2V02
Mancr Vic 08.09 08.13 2G92
Wigan NW 08.47 09.24 2F01
Lime St 10.12 10+30 5Y01
AllrtnDep 10+52

AllrtnDep 15+56 5F52
Lime St 16+16 16.45 2F52
Wigan NW 17.32 17.38 2C25
Lime St 18.21 18.31 2W91
Wigan NW 19.30 19+41 5W91
Springs B 19+53

319368

AllrtnDep 06+31 5A11
Lime St 06+46 07.00 2A11
Mancr Air 08.25 08.32 2F25
Lime St 09.52 10.15 2F66
Wigan NW 11.03 11.21 2C12
Lime St 12.09 12.45 2F56
Wigan NW 13.34 13.53 2C17
Lime St 14.43 15.00 2A19
Mancr Air 16.25 16.32 2F27
Lime St 17.53 18.13 2F60
Wigan NW 19.03 19.21 2C28
Lime St 20.09 20.45 2F50
Wigan NW 21.33 22.07 2C33
Lime St 23.02 23+12 5T33
AllrtnDep 23+25

319385

AllrtnDep 05+32 5A01
Lime St 05+47 06.00 2A10
Mancr Air 07.25 07.32 2F21
Lime St 08.52 09.14 2F62
Wigan NW 10.04 10.21 2C10
Lime St 11.08 11.15 2F50
Wigan NW 12.04 12.21 2C14
Lime St 13.09 13.45 2F60
Wigan NW 14.32 14.52 2C19
Lime St 15.43 16.28 2V92
Mancr Vic 17.25 17.29 2F29
Lime St 18.29 19.14 2F64
Wigan NW 20.04 20.21 2C30
Lime St 21.10 21+26 5Y30
AllrtnDep 21+42

I have a query concerning that date.

I was not there but was watching from home, so the nuances of RTT and what is input and not input come into play.


When I interrogated RTT around 10-1100 I found the same 6.


But someone is reporting 319368 was also out, but can't quote on what trains, they also say their gen was from RTT.

I did not see that on RTT neither can I find a gen post anywhere that 368 was out .

So was it out ? and if so on what ? please.

 

[darylyates17]

How many 319s are yet to depart for scrap?

 

[50032]

I have a query concerning that date.

I was not there but was watching from home, so the nuances of RTT and what is input and not input come into play.


When I interrogated RTT around 10-1100 I found the same 6.


But someone is reporting 319368 was also out, but can't quote on what trains, they also say their gen was from RTT.

I did not see that on RTT neither can I find a gen post anywhere that 368 was out .

So was it out ? and if so on what ? please.

Sorry, it's not clear what you're asking?

I posted that 368 was out on the 11th, but that was over a month ago so I can't confirm this now. Perhaps there is photo evidence if you search Flickr?

 

[D7666]

Sorry, it's not clear what you're asking?

I posted that 368 was out on the 11th, but that was over a month ago so I can't confirm this now. Perhaps there is photo evidence if you search Flickr?

Yes sorry, I confused dates.

I am asking about 9th December, the nominal official last day not 11th.

 

[diligentdave]

How many 319s are yet to depart for scrap?

Still 3.

319369 is booked to leave 01/02/24
319379 & 319386 are booked to leave 07/02/24

(depending on availability of loco, weather, etc. etc.)