Not sure we can consider it to be ready even now !In short, they were built before Bombardier Bangalore had the Aventra software package ready.
Not sure we can consider it to be ready even now !In short, they were built before Bombardier Bangalore had the Aventra software package ready.
It's clearly ready on the 710 and 720!Not sure we can consider it to be ready even now !
I’m not sure it’s perfect yetIt's clearly ready on the 710 and 720!
Ready as in the trains have been running in passenger service for ages.I’m not sure it’s perfect yet
The 710s started entering service 3 years ago, and seem to be operating ok with the Bangalore softwareReady as in the trains have been running in passenger service for ages.
I don't think the software on the 458s has ever been perfected, but they've managed 22 years and counting.
Same platform, but actually wildly different trains to 345/710/720.If it's not all about the cab ends, how have so many 720s been accepted for service? I'm not doubting the reports of the issues, just baffled at why the 701s are so much worse. The introduction of the previous Aventra fleets was far from problem-free but it was long ago now that I can't understand how things have got this bad.
Turbostar is a simpler train than Electrostar, in lots of ways. As for Electrostars, they were also appalling in various ways throughout their introduction - even right up into the last series off the production line, they were generating new faults!Wonder what happened to Bombardier? While the electrostars and turbostars aren't the most reliable things in the world they are nowhere near this bad, I guess the early ones were more Adtranz than Bombardier though.
Yep - Bombardier are the masters at over-promising, over-selling and under-delivering. They're an absolute shambles, IMO.Part of me feels that they were quite happy to let their reputation and brand proceed themselves, particularly after the Thameslink debacle where they quite often pretended to be a British firm heavily let down by the government after awarding it to a big bad German firm (despite Siemens having more UK pedigree, and Bombardier Transportation being a French Canadian firm headquartered in Berlin). Quite often they seemed to be good at selling you the dream, without either delivering it (See London Underground's SSL re-signalling project for another Bombardier farce) or delivering it late (Class 172s for another example).
345's arguably less complex - running pretty much Electrostar software and with additional redundancy (which can help you work round faults when they arise). Either way though, they're still *massively* late don't forget - the tunnel late delivery entirely masking the atrociously late delivery of the units themselves! If the tunnel had been on time, it would have been sat there empty for years, waiting for the train to catch up.I can't understand how the 701s can be so bad there are other Aventras in service. Heck Elizabeth line are running near 100% PPM in the core with the more complicated 345s.
Correct.As well as being different (don’t forget there’s a few years difference between the earliest 345 and the first 701), the software is completely different as well - unless it’s been updated since, they were running around with an updated Electrostar Software package in them - In short, they were built before Bombardier Bangalore had the Aventra software package ready.
Different train as mentioned earlier - DC pick up rather than AC pickup. And 10-car versus 5-car or 4-car (makes a big difference).It's clearly ready on the 710 and 720!
Some of the Class 710s are dual voltage, as they operate on the Watford DC lineSame platform, but actually wildly different trains to 345/710/720.
First DC Aventra, first 10-car Aventra etc.
The 701 is a bog standard 750V DC EMU, whereas the 345, which although it is 25kV AC only, has to run with multiple signalling systems (ETCS, TPWS/AWS, Crossrail core) with the changes between them. That alone makes them more complicated than the Aventras, all of which are nothing really new or revolutionary.345's arguably less complex - running pretty much Electrostar software and with additional redundancy (which can help you work round faults when they arise). Either way though, they're still *massively* late don't forget - the tunnel late delivery entirely masking the atrociously late delivery of the units themselves! If the tunnel had been on time, it would have been sat there empty for years, waiting for the train to catch up.
That alone makes them more complicated than the Aventras, all of which are nothing really new or revolutionary.
Don't most of the more modern DMUs, EMUs, etc, have ETCS built in as standard for future use? With it just inhibited or isolated to Level NTC (Aws/Tpws).certainly the 701s have ETCS. Whether it is activated or not is a different matter.
Don't most of the more modern DMUs, EMUs, etc, have ETCS built in as standard for future use? With it just inhibited or isolated to Level NTC (Aws/Tpws).
Digital Ready if you like
The traction inverters are the same on 7xx Aventras either fed direct off DC or through a front end DC link off the 25kV transformer. The fact they are allowed on the main line for testing is because mechanically and electrically they are proven. Its the rest of the train that appears to be riddled with problems although I wouldn't be surprised to find SWR or their consultant reps have a different standard to what is acceptable to GA or even C2C who are cracking on with their micro fleet of Aventras. That said when you have poor initial build and the supplier continues to supply poor quality products despite saying they've sorted out their issues the customer doesn't want to give any concessions in my experienceThe 701 is a bog standard 750V DC EMU, whereas the 345, which although it is 25kV AC only, has to run with multiple signalling systems (ETCS, TPWS/AWS, Crossrail core) with the changes between them. That alone makes them more complicated than the Aventras, all of which are nothing really new or revolutionary.
Same platform, but actually wildly different trains to 345/710/720.
First DC Aventra, first 10-car Aventra etc.
Turbostar is a simpler train than Electrostar, in lots of ways. As for Electrostars, they were also appalling in various ways throughout their introduction - even right up into the last series off the production line, they were generating new faults!
I imagine not as the infrastructure for it does not exist at this time and might not for some time.Does anyone know for definite if they've actually started testing ABDO yet? And how it's going if so?
if ever......I imagine not as the infrastructure for it does not exist at this time and might not for some time.
Well yes there's that tooif ever......
Assisted Braking and Door Opening? What infrastructure changes are needed for this? ThxDoes anyone know for definite if they've actually started testing ABDO yet? And how it's going if so?
Many thanksSome ETCS-style balises.
It was planned to come after the initial introduction of 701s and the need for it was based on a timetable now never likely to see the light of day.Does anyone know for definite if they've actually started testing ABDO yet? And how it's going if so?
Yeah, I saw that one yesterday as I was down that way.Spotted in the Wild.. (well passing through Southampton, I assume on the way to Bournemouth)
Surely they'll just be Eurobalises?Some ETCS-style balises.
From Realtimetrains looked like it is running today again.Spotted in the Wild.. (well passing through Southampton, I assume on the way to Bournemouth)
701048 - Specifically on a test run down to Poole and back.. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C30449/2022-07-21/detailed
There is a safety marker like a not to be moved board, that denotes if the equipment is isolated. No marker means you assume it's on and you cannot go underneath the unit in the pit.certainly the 701s have ETCS. Whether it is activated or not is a different matter.
I’ll have to take a read of it, as BBC South and Rail’s Paul Clifton has said both on South Today and Twitter, that there is “Vanishingly Little” about the new fleet. Even on the 18:30 broadcast tonight, SWR didn’t really have much to expand on over them. Possibly I wonder, if First Groups Lawyers are now involved?Seems SWR are confident that issues will be "resolved shortly" with this fleet - this is announced in their new business plan issued yesterday.