Class 707 to Southeastern Dates

[Islineclear3_1]

That yellow front doesn't sit well with me (relating to the Sidcup vid)

Didn't realise that SE had added a first class section... same seats with "First Class" antimacassars stuck on them

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

They missed a trick by not using the red seat covers

 

[SolomonSouth]

So how many are with SE now?

 

[Paul Jones 88]

The yellow banding on the accessibility area of the train is a poorly thought out idea as it is going to cause confusion amongst customers who will understandably presume it to be first class.

 

[Fincra5]

The yellow banding on the accessibility area of the train is a poorly thought out idea as it is going to cause confusion amongst customers who will understandably presume it to be first class.

Yeah, I'm surprised it doesn't match the Electrostars in that regard...

 

[Goldfish62]

Pretty amazing how the unloved 458s were threatened with being parked up because they were so poor. A stay of execution occurred and they Siemensised and allegedly became the best DC trains ever (well nearly !!).
Al of a sudden, a change of franchise and they become the most unreliable again.

They became unreliable when they were converted to five car units. Nothing to do with the change of franchise. Why on earth would that be relevant considering it wasn't concurrent with the lengthening project?

 

[ComUtoR]

So how many are with SE now?

8

707003 - 010

 

[markyl]

The yellow banding on the accessibility area of the train is a poorly thought out idea as it is going to cause confusion amongst customers who will understandably presume it to be first class.

First Class was meant to be being abolished on SouthEastern, maybe that’s happening soon so the yellow is free to be used.

 

[Mikey C]

The yellow banding on the accessibility area of the train is a poorly thought out idea as it is going to cause confusion amongst customers who will understandably presume it to be first class.

Everyone will dive for that area, thinking it's like the declassified first class section of the 465/9s and 700s on the Dartford routes, and be sorely disappointed!

 

[43066]

First Class was meant to be being abolished on SouthEastern, maybe that’s happening soon so the yellow is free to be used.

There’s no first class on SE metro services anyway (other than aforementioned declassified sections of 465/9s), so it shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[ComUtoR]

Everyone will dive for that area, thinking it's like the declassified first class section of the 465/9s and 700s on the Dartford routes, and be sorely disappointed!

I would say quite the opposite. Most passengers on SE Metro know that first class doesn't exist or just sit anywhere they want.

You also find that most of the commuters will sit in their specific seat. Or at the least get in the carriage nearest their exit. I found it amusing with 700s that you can see the door patterns for each station. Some doors at certain stations pretty much never open

 

[hwl]

The yellow banding on the accessibility area of the train is a poorly thought out idea as it is going to cause confusion amongst customers who will understandably presume it to be first class.

The accessible area branding is orange rather than yellow

 

[Goldfish62]

The accessible area branding is orange rather than yellow

Glad it's not just me who thought it was clearly orange!

 

[Class 466]

In fairness, with my colourblindness, orange stands out better on the blue rather than the colour on 375s which I can’t really see at all from a distance.

 

[Domh245]

I suppose the use of orange (rather than the maroon used for the accessible areas on the electrostars) is down to lack of toilet perhaps? It's not the same "product" (accessibility wise) so no point having the same marking

 

[hwl]

In fairness, with my colourblindness, orange stands out better on the blue rather than the colour on 375s which I can’t really see at all from a distance.

They happen to have picked pretty much the right shade of orange for maximum visual contrast for the non colour blind and very good tonal contrast for those with no colour vision at all. A good choice.
The maroon on the 375s is best described as "a bit on an oops" to put it mildly.

 

[Davester50]

First Class was meant to be being abolished on SouthEastern, maybe that’s happening soon so the yellow is free to be used.

It was a UIC standard, (might still be, don't know), but it's still used across several operators, and not just in the UK.

Otherwise, I quite like it, don't think the yellow front is as bad as being made out.

 

[hvordan]

don't think the yellow front is as bad as being made out.

I agree, it's really not that bad.

I think it looks great as a whole, very smart in the navy livery and can't wait to see what they do with the remaining Metro fleet.

 

[Class 466]

I agree, it's really not that bad.

I think it looks great as a whole, very smart in the navy livery and can't wait to see what they do with the remaining Metro fleet.

The words “very little” springs to mind

 

[hvordan]

The words “very little” springs to mind

Lol, wishful thinking on my behalf. One can only hope though !

 

[Wyrleybart]

They became unreliable when they were converted to five car units. Nothing to do with the change of franchise. Why on earth would that be relevant considering it wasn't concurrent with the lengthening project?

I beg to differ. Built as 4 car units 458001-458030 they had a shocking reputation and were stored. I know wiki isn't always a paragon of virtue but ;


In 2004, when the full fleet was in service, reliability was so poor that South West Trains planned to return them to the leasing company and replace them with new Class 450 Desiro trains. At that time, the trains only managed an average of 4,300 miles (6,900 km) between failures, compared with an average of 21,000 miles (34,000 km) for a Class 450 Desiro and 50,000 miles (80,000 km) for the previous slam-door trains.

In September 2005, two units (458001 and 458002) were transferred to Gatwick Express, but returned later that year. By 2006, the poor reliability of the trains combined with the introduction of the new, more reliable British Rail Class 450 fleet meant that the trains had been withdrawn from regular service, with eight kept on standby. In July 2006, the Department for Transport refused to grant any further exemption from the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations, resulting in modifications to the passenger information system being made, with new wider LEDs fitted within the existing housing.

Return to service​

As part of Stagecoach's bid for the replacement South Western franchise, it was planned that the Class 442 stock would leave the franchise, with Class 444 stock internally cascaded to replace the units, and that the Class 458s would return to service to maintain the overall fleet size. It was speculated that this was due to Porterbrook being unable to find any other rail operators willing to lease the Class 458 trains (the trains having been rented to South West Trains on a pay per use basis following the expiry of the original lease), and halving the rental costs. The Class 458s slowly re-entered service with the 23 units having re-entered service in January, sufficient for the last Class 442 to be withdrawn on 24 January 2007. By February 2007, reliability had improved with the Class 458 fleet managing 17,800 miles (28,600 km) between 5-minute delays caused by failures, in contrast to expectations that the units' reliability would further suffer following their lengthy period in storage

 

[Goldfish62]

I beg to differ. Built as 4 car units 458001-458030 they had a shocking reputation and were stored. I know wiki isn't always a paragon of virtue but ;


In 2004, when the full fleet was in service, reliability was so poor that South West Trains planned to return them to the leasing company and replace them with new Class 450 Desiro trains. At that time, the trains only managed an average of 4,300 miles (6,900 km) between failures, compared with an average of 21,000 miles (34,000 km) for a Class 450 Desiro and 50,000 miles (80,000 km) for the previous slam-door trains.

In September 2005, two units (458001 and 458002) were transferred to Gatwick Express, but returned later that year. By 2006, the poor reliability of the trains combined with the introduction of the new, more reliable British Rail Class 450 fleet meant that the trains had been withdrawn from regular service, with eight kept on standby. In July 2006, the Department for Transport refused to grant any further exemption from the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations, resulting in modifications to the passenger information system being made, with new wider LEDs fitted within the existing housing.

Return to service​

As part of Stagecoach's bid for the replacement South Western franchise, it was planned that the Class 442 stock would leave the franchise, with Class 444 stock internally cascaded to replace the units, and that the Class 458s would return to service to maintain the overall fleet size. It was speculated that this was due to Porterbrook being unable to find any other rail operators willing to lease the Class 458 trains (the trains having been rented to South West Trains on a pay per use basis following the expiry of the original lease), and halving the rental costs. The Class 458s slowly re-entered service with the 23 units having re-entered service in January, sufficient for the last Class 442 to be withdrawn on 24 January 2007. By February 2007, reliability had improved with the Class 458 fleet managing 17,800 miles (28,600 km) between 5-minute delays caused by failures, in contrast to expectations that the units' reliability would further suffer following their lengthy period in storage

Thank you for the quote from that esteemed webpage, but it's got nothing to do with what I was referring to.

I was explaining the decline in reliability from the point that the Class won the Modern Railways Golden Spanners award was directly attributable to the conversion to five cars. That's not an opinion, that is a hard fact and is recorded in the industry performance data.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Thank you for the quote from that esteemed webpage, but it's got nothing to do with what I was referring to.

I was explaining the decline in reliability from the point that the Class won the Modern Railways Golden Spanners award was directly attributable to the conversion to five cars. That's not an opinion, that is a hard fact and is recorded in the industry performance data.

As built 458s were four car units and were shockingly unreliable to the extent they put them into store. They were resurrected and presumably with a massive amount of work,became very reliable units save for the gangway issues - especially so that they recieved the Golden Spanners awards.

The decision was made to intensively rebuild them with new cab ends and class 460 car augmentation into the five car units they are now, and as you say the have massively declined. The point maybe is that they were built and eventually worked as 4 car units, and despite a lot of fettling their heavy rebuild has seen a decline.

 

[Ilovetrains43]

707009/10 have been repainted ready for the launch with the same livery as seen on 375s.

 

[43096]

707009/10 have been repainted ready for the launch with the same livery as seen on 375s.

Which is what we’ve been talking about for much of the last page and a half! It pays to search before posting.

Oh, and the livery is mostly vinyl, not paint.

 

[Milo T.K]

707009/10 have been repainted ready for the launch with the same livery as seen on 375s.

Bit late don't you think?

 

[Ilovetrains43]

Bit late don't you think?

Well, they had 707 003/4/5/6/7/8 to repaint from SWR which started to be stored at a Southeastern depot. They had months to do it on them and they choose the most recently transferred 707s they had stored from SWR. Crazy.

 

[43096]

Well, they had 707 003/4/5/6/7/8 to repaint from SWR which started to be stored at a Southeastern depot. They had months to do it on them and they choose the most recently transferred 707s they had stored from SWR. Crazy.

I think "Milo T.K" means you're a bit late to the party on this.

 

[ComUtoR]

Crazy.

Actually, it's quite clever.

The intial set of units that went over to SE have been used quite extensively ever since arriving. The units do not enter service until..... So there is no real need to get them wrapped/painted until service entry. Then all they need to do is have a plan for each units arrival and entering service.

 

[Milo T.K]

I think "Milo T.K" means you're a bit late to the party on this.

^. Unrelated note when are the next 707s being done into SE?