Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[38Cto15E]

Thank you both for the info, Have a Happy New Year on the rails.

 

[AJDesiro]

Trent Valley services are set to remain as class 350 traction. 730's aren't replacing everything!

a 5 car 730 does not have enough capacity to replace 8 car 350's and a 10 car 730 set will be too long (the equivalent of 12 car 350 which does not happen on the TV lines)

Has that plan changed already!?!? I remember talking to a WMT exec on the 196 introduction who said that 730s would be replacing 350s on Crewe-Euston runs.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Has that plan changed already!?!? I remember talking to a WMT exec on the 196 introduction who said that they would be replacing 350s on Crewe-Euston runs.

I thought the plan was that they could run any route, like the 350/2s do now, but depending on whether they can multiple or not this may have now changed.

 

[Energy]

Has that plan changed already!?!? I remember talking to a WMT exec on the 196 introduction who said that 730s would be replacing 350s on Crewe-Euston runs.

I thought the plan was that they could run any route, like the 350/2s do now, but depending on whether they can multiple or not this may have now changed.

iirc 350s on Birmingham to Euston, 730s on Crewe and Milton Keynes/Tring.

There is a post somewhere in this thread detailing it but they aren't anywhere units since they aren't compatible with 350s.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

The last we were told internally was 730s replacing 319s and then 350/2s. Crewe DIs have been attending traction training over the last 6 months so they are planned to be used across the network as Crewe don't sign south of Hillmorton (drivers) or between New St/Rugby so clearly they won't ONLY be on those lines.

 

[778]

The last we were told internally was 730s replacing 319s and then 350/2s. Crewe DIs have been attending traction training over the last 6 months so they are planned to be used across the network as Crewe don't sign south of Hillmorton (drivers) or between New St/Rugby so clearly they won't ONLY be on those lines.

Are all the 3 car units going to be WMR, or will LNWR have some 3 car units as well?

 

[AJDesiro]

Are all the 3 car units going to be WMR, or will LNWR have some 3 car units as well?

The 3 car units will all be WMR liveried, but they will initially be used to replace the 319s out of Euston under LNWR. Upon seeing the PIS screen from the window of a WMR 730, it also seems that the PIS is also able to change branding (it was LNWR branded) like the 350s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are all the 3 car units going to be WMR, or will LNWR have some 3 car units as well?

I had wondered that, as a 5 car formation will be too short for many trains and a 10 car too long. 8 car (5+3) might be a sweet spot.

As to where they will be used on WCML services, the latest I heard, I think in Modern Railways, was:

730: Euston-Tring/MKC, presumably 10 car peak, 5 off peak
350: Euston-Brum, Euston-Crewe (mostly 8 car)

Not sure about Liverpools, they were going to be 730 but if only hourly 8.350 is needed but 10.730 too long. Not heard anything about Brum to Crewe via the wobble.

 

[778]

I had wondered that, as a 5 car formation will be too short for many trains and a 10 car too long. 8 car (5+3) might be a sweet spot.

As to where they will be used on WCML services, the latest I heard, I think in Modern Railways, was:

730: Euston-Tring/MKC, presumably 10 car peak, 5 off peak
350: Euston-Brum, Euston-Crewe (mostly 8 car)

Not sure about Liverpools, they were going to be 730 but if only hourly 8.350 is needed but 10.730 too long. Not heard anything about Brum to Crewe via the wobble.

Does that mean 5 cars on Saturdays and Sundays? The peak period is weekday mornings and evenings. Still no change on the plans for them to have 2+2 seating?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does that mean 5 cars on Saturdays and Sundays? The peak period is weekday mornings and evenings.

I suspect a mix. There are quiet times on weekends and busy times. Whereas the faster services to Birmingham in the new timetable seem pretty evenly loaded, though I suppose we won't know for certain until Chiltern starts back up.

 

[AJDesiro]

I had wondered that, as a 5 car formation will be too short for many trains and a 10 car too long. 8 car (5+3) might be a sweet spot.

As to where they will be used on WCML services, the latest I heard, I think in Modern Railways, was:

730: Euston-Tring/MKC, presumably 10 car peak, 5 off peak
350: Euston-Brum, Euston-Crewe (mostly 8 car)

Not sure about Liverpools, they were going to be 730 but if only hourly 8.350 is needed but 10.730 too long. Not heard anything about Brum to Crewe via the wobble.

Modern Railways October 2022 (last issue of Modern Railways I've found with mention of 730 services) states for the WCML:

350: Euston-Brum, Brum-Crewe via Stoke and Tame Bridge Pkway, Abbey Line & some additional peak services.
730: Other Euston services, all slow line plus the Trent Valley and Brum-Liverpool.

This may have now changed now that the order has resulted in WMR having the majority of units, but there was no mention in the two later issues.

With the better segregation of services in the latest TTC, it also looks like the chances of diagrams getting muddled up are slimmer than ever.

Brum-Crewe services seem like an interesting place to put 730s, as platform 4C at new street can hardly fit a 4 car 350, so I'd imagine this will either be a 730/0 or rerouted to another platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Modern Railways October 2022 (last issue of Modern Railways I've found with mention of 730 services) states for the WCML:

350: Euston-Brum, Brum-Crewe via Stoke and Tame Bridge Pkway, Abbey Line & some additional peak services.
730: Other Euston services, all slow line plus the Trent Valley and Brum-Liverpool.

This may have now changed now that the order has resulted in WMR having the majority of units, but there was no mention in the two later issues.

With the better segregation of services in the latest TTC, it also looks like the chances of diagrams getting muddled up are slimmer than ever.

Brum-Crewe services seem like an interesting place to put 730s, as platform 4C at new street can hardly fit a 4 car 350, so I'd imagine this will either be a 730/0 or rerouted to another platform.

Thanks. I must have read it wrong re the Trent Valleys, but are platforms long enough for 10.730? 5 will be insufficient.

 

[AJDesiro]

Thanks. I must have read it wrong re the Trent Valleys, but are platforms long enough for 10.730? 5 will be insufficient.

That's exactly my concern, apparently, Rugeley can fit 5x24m, no idea about Atherstone though, Euston/MKC/Rugby/Nuneaton/Stafford can of course hold 10x24m since they handle Pendolino's. Tamworth/Lichfield TV also handle Pendolino's but I'm unsure of whether they use SDO at either station. Polesworth apparently has 138m long platforms, so would only be able to fit 5.730. Not all bay platforms at Crewe can fit 10x24m, although I have no idea if any can fit them. But I agree, it would be foolish on WMT's part if they run the service as a 5 car 730.

 

[Peter Sarf]

That's exactly my concern, apparently, Rugeley can fit 5x24m, no idea about Atherstone though, Euston/MKC/Rugby/Nuneaton/Stafford can of course hold 10x24m since they handle Pendolino's. Tamworth/Lichfield TV also handle Pendolino's but I'm unsure of whether they use SDO at either station. Polesworth apparently has 138m long platforms, so would only be able to fit 5.730. Not all bay platforms at Crewe can fit 10x24m, although I have no idea if any can fit them. But I agree, it would be foolish on WMT's part if they run the service as a 5 car 730.

Given that the order has been changed to result in there now being more 3-car 730s and fewer 5-car 730s I suppose it is possible that the Trent Valley services will be operated by 2 x 3-car 730 instead of anything longer - likely ?. Another guess would be WMR liveried (so 3-car) 730s on services starting from Birmingham and heading away from London so New Street to Crewe and Liverpool.

 

[AJDesiro]

Given that the order has been changed to result in there now being more 3-car 730s and fewer 5-car 730s I suppose it is possible that the Trent Valley services will be operated by 2 x 3-car 730 instead of anything longer - likely ?. Another guess would be WMR liveried (so 3-car) 730s on services starting from Birmingham and heading away from London so New Street to Crewe and Liverpool.

I’d imagine it’s most likely for 3 car 730s to operate from Brum-Crewe since they would fit on new street platform 4c and also probably won’t be impacted as much from a reduced speed. The Trent Valley services need 110mph running south of Rugby.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I’d imagine it’s most likely for 3 car 730s to operate from Brum-Crewe since they would fit on new street platform 4c and also probably won’t be impacted as much from a reduced speed. The Trent Valley services need 110mph running south of Rugby.

Thats true, forgot that.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

From what I can recall, it's 5 car 730 on 2tph so hopefully that negates the current need for 8 car 350s on the Brum-Liverpools. (Increase service and capacity in May?)

Via Stoke would be either 3 car 730 or 4 car 350, won't make much of a difference, and stations were branded to WMR anyway weren't they? So wouldn't be so confusing for passengers. Crewe platform 2 supposedly being filled in/shortened to lengthen platform 3 to support a 5 car 730 though so maybe it could be any single set.

DIs have said that currently there is an issue working a 3+5 car combo but a software fix will be introduced before they enter service so that it will be possible to mix the sets. (Not great from brand POV).

10 car 730s won't fully fit at Polesworth (not that it's served), Atherstone and Rugeley TV (5 car may not fully fit on the down platform) which are currently UDS operated, all other stations on the TV lines should be fine. Though it won't be able to use platform 7 at Crewe as it only just fits an 8 car 350.

 

[778]

From what I can recall, it's 5 car 730 on 2tph so hopefully that negates the current need for 8 car 350s on the Brum-Liverpools. (Increase service and capacity in May?)

Via Stoke would be either 3 car 730 or 4 car 350, won't make much of a difference, and stations were branded to WMR anyway weren't they? So wouldn't be so confusing for passengers. Crewe platform 2 supposedly being filled in/shortened to lengthen platform 3 to support a 5 car 730 though so maybe it could be any single set.

DIs have said that currently there is an issue working a 3+5 car combo but a software fix will be introduced before they enter service so that it will be possible to mix the sets. (Not great from brand POV).

10 car 730s won't fully fit at Polesworth (not that it's served), Atherstone and Rugeley TV (5 car may not fully fit on the down platform) which are currently UDS operated, all other stations on the TV lines should be fine. Though it won't be able to use platform 7 at Crewe as it only just fits an 8 car 350.

Are they all going to have 2+2 seating? It was mentioned on twitter that one of the 5 car sets was on test and they could see 3+2 seating through the windows, although they were constructed last year before the specification changed.

 

[Energy]

Are they all going to have 2+2 seating? It was mentioned on twitter that one of the 5 car sets was on test and they could see 3+2 seating through the windows, although they were constructed last year before the specification changed.

Correct.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Correct.

Presumably they'll be able to flog the old seat frames to Greater Anglia or C2C as spares for their 3+2 units.

 

[Silverlinky]

The 3 car and 5 car variants will not be mixed....far more required than just a software update. The amount of work and cost involved in making 350/2's 110mph capable was considerable. Pan changes, traction motor upgrades and suchlike.
When it comes to training, only a select few instructors will have been trained by Alstom, the Company training package has not been finalised yet.

I suppose we could see 5 car 730's on the Trent Valley if the service goes half hourly, whether there is still the call for that is anyone's guess though.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

The 3 car and 5 car variants will not be mixed....far more required than just a software update. The amount of work and cost involved in making 350/2's 110mph capable was considerable. Pan changes, traction motor upgrades and suchlike.
When it comes to training, only a select few instructors will have been trained by Alstom, the Company training package has not been finalised yet.

I suppose we could see 5 car 730's on the Trent Valley if the service goes half hourly, whether there is still the call for that is anyone's guess though.

That info was given to Crewe DIs at the test track where traction training is being delivered. Obviously that doesn't take into consideration the speed capability, just that they will be able to mix units. Or be able to rescue a failed unit with a different set if required.

You say only a select few, but almost all of Crewe DIs (at least 6/7 so far) have been for said training, can't imagine it's any different at Bletchley. I know the training package hasn't been finalised yet, but clearly that will be for DIs to deliver and whilst Alstom are happy to deliver training there will be drivers sent down to receive it.

 

[bigmanHarry]

730102(490102, 491102, 492102, 493102, 494102) Stored HNRC Worksop UP Yard.

 

[Spirit555]

730021 delivered to Oxley today

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Birmingham-Liverpool on a 90mph 730 will be like turning the clock back nearly 20 years to the time 323s did the run - even more so if it's a 3-car 2+3 format.
Euston-Crewe also needs 110mph north of Rugby on the Fast lines - even the Slow is 110mph from Amington to Armitage.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

even more so if it's a 3-car 2+3 format.

There will be no such thing.

 

[AJDesiro]

Just seen the two 730/1s at Crewe. First class looks to be Fainsa Sophia seats as seen in the concept images all those years ago, but they seem to look more like the seats on the 197 that have the larger wings, with what looks like a leather-style headrest like the 350s, just bigger, rather than the seats on stock 80Xs. Seating inside is still 3x2 as previous reports suggested, but hopefully will change. Units also have new cabs with the visible anti climbers. Also one carriage in full LNWR vinyls, but I believe it’s been like that for a while now.

 

[Roger B]

Just seen the two 730/1s at Crewe. First class is Fainsa Sophia seats as seen in the concept images all those years ago, but they are more like the seats on the 197 that have the larger wings, with what looks like leather-style headrest like the 350s, just bigger, rather than the seats on stock 80Xs. Seating inside is still 3x2 as previous reports suggested, but hopefully will change. Units also have new cabs with the visible anti climbers. Also one carriage in full LNWR vinyls, but I believe it’s been like that for a while now.

Are they the two that have been sat outside the Carriage Depot for the last week or so? If so, can you share which ones they are, please? Many thanks

 

[AJDesiro]

Are they the two that have been sat outside the Carriage Depot for the last week or so? If so, can you share which ones they are, please? Many thanks

Yes, they are indeed the ones that have been at the carriage depot for the last week or so. The unit further to the south is 730 101, the unit to the north is 730 103.

 

[Roger B]

Yes, they are indeed the ones that have been at the carriage depot for the last week or so. The unit further to the south is 730 101, the unit to the north is 730 103.

Many thanks AJ - really helpful