Cricket

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Oh no, why inflict Giles on Lancashire?

He really didn't have much clout or success with England, so can he be any better for the Red Rose county?

I think both posts will merge.

As you say, the decision to merge both the positions was taken.

So it appears that having lost Moores to the England team, we now are saddled with a "second-hand Rose" figure of Giles.

 

[Whistler40145]

We'll just have to see how he goes?

Can he get us back into Division 1?

Will Chapple stay for the 2015 season or has he played his last game?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We'll just have to see how he goes?

Can he get us back into Division 1?

Will Chapple stay for the 2015 season or has he played his last game?

Just had a look at his bowling averages in County Championship Division 1 in 2014 which show...500.4 - 99 - 1556 - 39 .... Average of 36.26.

That is about 10 runs per wicket average too much for a strike bowler to concede in the top echelon of county cricket.

 

[Buttsy]

Just had a look at his bowling averages in County Championship Division 1 in 2014 which show...500.4 - 99 - 1556 - 39 .... Average of 36.26.

That is about 10 runs per wicket average too much for a strike bowler to concede in the top echelon of county cricket.

BUT as a first change seamer, he might just manage one more season if he can be economical.

 

[DarloRich]

Any thoughts on the KP book/ England situation?

To me he is a fantastic talent that should be accommodated within the England team -clearly he is a right PITA, blessed with a considerable ego (backed up by talent though?) and a "difficult" character to deal with - but surely that is the key strength of management, to extract the best from these types of people? When playing well he can take the game away from teams with powerful batting and is the kind of player that attracts crowds to cricket.

 

[ExRes]

Any thoughts on the KP book/ England situation?

To me he is a fantastic talent that should be accommodated within the England team -clearly he is a right PITA, blessed with a considerable ego (backed up by talent though?) and a "difficult" character to deal with - but surely that is the key strength of management, to extract the best from these types of people? When playing well he can take the game away from teams with powerful batting and is the kind of player that attracts crowds to cricket.

He's a money grabbing mercenary now, through his own choice entirely

If you look at his record you'll see that he's not played a First Class match since January 2014 or a List A match since September 2013, that's because he's only interested in chasing the 20/20 cash

He's interested in one person only, himself, I remember someone else like that, Geoffrey Boycott, who was and is vilified for his selfishness by the same people who try to excuse Pietersen

No thanks, take your cash from your autobiography Pietersen, which will probably be in the bargain bin at Tesco by Christmas, and toddle off to India
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
For those who were discussing Mr Chapple

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/29536853

Suggestions for a new skipper ?

 

[Whistler40145]

Well...is Paul Horton ready for Captaincy?

If not, who else at Lancashire could take the job?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well...is Paul Horton ready for Captaincy?

If not, who else at Lancashire could take the job?

A regular opening bat, 32 years of age and born in Sydney. I wonder what Down South thinks of his prospects.

 

[Whistler40145]

Only reason I questioned whether Paul Horton would get the Captaincy is that not always does the Vice Captain automatically get the job.

 

[ExRes]

Only reason I questioned whether Paul Horton would get the Captaincy is that not always does the Vice Captain automatically get the job.

Paul Horton, Tom Smith or maybe it's the bait to ensure Ashwell Prince comes back next season

 

[Busaholic]

Glen Chapple has 975 first class wickets to his name, almost all for Lancs. Who'd deny his chance of getting to the 1000, and possibly be the last-ever county player to do so?

On K.P. and being an avid newspaper reader, Telegraph and clumnist Michael Vaughan are taking a pro-KP line (unsurprisingly, perhaps, given their serialisation) but Times are fairly anti, virulently so in the case of Chief Sports Writer Matthew Syed, who compares him to Roy Keane, than whom...

 

[ExRes]

Glen Chapple has 975 first class wickets to his name, almost all for Lancs. Who'd deny his chance of getting to the 1000, and possibly be the last-ever county player to do so?

Me for one, it all depends on whether he really is capable of pulling his weight or not, what use is he (or anyone else) if he takes up a place in the squad at the expense of a young bowler especially if he was to turn in figures of, let's say, 20 @ 55.00

No, a season in the 2nd division is the opportunity for him to pass on his experience and coach the Lancashire bowlers of the future
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I suppose I should have remembered that whatever happens for Chapple next season won't affect Sussex at all, what with us being a 1st division county

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One County Championship particular match in 2013 will live in my memory for years to come as both Chapple and Hogg (who recently had to retire early with back problems) launched a most devastating pace bowling assault on the Essex 2nd innings batsmen, which saw Essex all out for only 20 in 14.2 overs.....
Chapple...7.2 - 4 - 9 - 5
Hogg.......7.0 - 3 - 11 - 4

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Any thoughts on the KP book/ England situation?

To me he is a fantastic talent that should be accommodated within the England team -clearly he is a right PITA, blessed with a considerable ego (backed up by talent though?) and a "difficult" character to deal with - but surely that is the key strength of management, to extract the best from these types of people? When playing well he can take the game away from teams with powerful batting and is the kind of player that attracts crowds to cricket.

No matter what some individuals feel about KP, I think that he has exposed a very unhealthy culture within the England team. Bullying,(and that includes ridicule) at any level is inexcuseable, and I do find it odd that some people are quite happy to suggest that it can't happen within the England set-up. Whyever not? The response of the ECB has been lamentable, and I expect them to close ranks and try to cover up the mess that they have got into. It's interesting that even Michael Atherton suggests that 50% of what KP says might be true!
It has always puzzled me that Graeme Swann left the Ashes tour and retired immediately after the third test..no doubt he was injured permanently but if he was the team man and generally good cheeky chappie that he likes to portray, surely he could have stayed on and supported his team mates and best friend Jimmy? Goodness, if KP had done that......! Interesting that Ricky Ponting has cited Swann/Anderson as purveyors of bullying on the field. I suggest that the ECB have allowed, through their mis-management of a sublime talent, the genie out of the bottle, and I would expect more to come out.

 

[DownSouth]

It was on this day in 1994 that Mark Taylor and Michael Slater both took their only Test wicket each and Damian Fleming became only the third player to take a hat trick on debut. It was on the fifth day of a tame draw against Pakistan, when Ian Healy was the only Australian player to not get a bowl.

Taylor and Slater were an excellent opening batting partnership, not so well known as bowlers!

A regular opening bat, 32 years of age and born in Sydney. I wonder what Down South thinks of his prospects.

I honestly can't say I've ever heard of him. The number of cricketers who grow up in Sydney but have to leave for other places (Grade Cricket in other Australian states, or overseas) to avoid having their career stalled in Sydney Grade Cricket is rather staggering. The only reason that NSW does not win the Sheffield Shield every year is that they rarely get to put their best eleven on the field in amongst the international schedule.

I think that appointing an opening batsman as captain just because they are the best-performing player in the team is generally a bad idea, if they are the best captain then shuffle them down the order to 4 or 5. There is too much going on in a captain's head for them to fully focus on their batting after only ten minutes to change over.

The same goes for promoting a vice-captain - there's a lot more to being a vice-captain than just being the next captain, and quite often a good vice-captain would be better off left in place to keep doing that well. This is often the case for wicketkeepers - Brad Haddin and Matt Prior were both very important for their teams in that role last summer.

 

[Busaholic]

Me for one, it all depends on whether he really is capable of pulling his weight or not, what use is he (or anyone else) if he takes up a place in the squad at the expense of a young bowler especially if he was to turn in figures of, let's say, 20 @ 55.00

No, a season in the 2nd division is the opportunity for him to pass on his experience and coach the Lancashire bowlers of the future
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I suppose I should have remembered that whatever happens for Chapple next season won't affect Sussex at all, what with us being a 1st division county

A couple of matches would be enough to see if he was still good enough. His batting should not be overlooked either, the way he marshalled that third batting point in the last game against Middlesex and then declared, still leaving Lancashire with the theoretical chance of avoiding the drop. I am no fan of Man Utd or Ferguson in particular but he knew how to use experienced players. Nowadays in cricket abowler takes a couple of five-fers or a couple of easy centuries against Leics or Northants and they're off to a new county at the end of the season, often never to be heard from again. The trouble is not with people like Chapple, or Cork, or Prince, it's the players who've not come on after five years or so - every team has them, and in your case Wells seems to fall into this category. Better to have got rid of him rather than Goodwin two years ago IMO but family loyalties obviously die hard at Hove!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I see that a West Indies player pay dispute is being given as a reason for the possible early termination of the West Indies tour of India. India are currently leading 2-1 in the ODI series.

 

[DownSouth]

I see that a West Indies player pay dispute is being given as a reason for the possible early termination of the West Indies tour of India.

It's a nasty one - the actual players have been in dispute with the West Indies Players' Association during the latest round of pay negotiations, and the WIPA consequently negotiated a 75% pay cut for the players with the West Indies Cricket Board. How on earth the players and their association got into dispute is beyond me, bodies like the Australian Cricketers' Association are also run by non-players (mostly former players, but also some pro agents) but they are directly accountable to the current players.

The BCCI could have saved the tour - their TV rights revenue from the tour would have been more than enough to pay the Windies players to finish the tour and then take up their dispute with the board afterwards, and the amount of money lost to them would be (a) minimised and (b) possibly recoverable from the WICB through ICC action.

I wonder if this means the West Indies will get dropped from the World Cup? If so, there will be the need for another team to enter their slot and make sure no matches are lost. Maybe this could be a World XI formed of the best players not selected in their national squads which would play in the group stage but would not be able to progress to the quarter-finals.

At this stage it thankfully doesn't appear to be affecting the West Indies women's team which has a tour in Australia starting next week. It would be a shame if those women were to miss out on what will be the highlight of their careers - playing in the T20 double headers at Adelaide Oval, the MCG and Stadium Australia in front of the largest crowds they will ever see, a totally unique opportunity in women's cricket.

 

[Busaholic]

Tony Cozier, who must know more about West Indies cricket than any other commentator, said on 'Today' this morning that it could presage the end of a West Indies team and he is not one for hyperbole.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Since the golden days when the West Indies would play a battery (in more ways than one) of four fast bowlers to devastating effect in Test Matches, time has moved on and during a recent conversation that I had with a resident of Jamaica, it was said that other sports have been gaining ground on a year by year basis since the turn of the millennium.

 

[DownSouth]

Tony Cozier, who must know more about West Indies cricket than any other commentator, said on 'Today' this morning that it could presage the end of a West Indies team and he is not one for hyperbole.

I'd like to hear the views of Michael Holding and Viv Richards as well - as well as being TV commentators respected around the globe (including in India) they were both involved in resolving the last major West Indies dispute.

The biggest problem for the West Indies is not their internal disputes (the board can sack players and replace them from the lower ranks - they've been there before, as did Australia and England in the 1980's) but the fact that they've now got India involved. The BCCI is quite happy with threatening to take their bat and go home when something doesn't go their way (they followed through on the threat last year against South Africa) but nobody's ever found out what would happen if someone else did it to them.


What would definitely kill the West Indies would be the introduction of T20 to the Olympics. Each of the WI countries would have to go through the qualification process in their own right - but this would also apply to the GB team, which rules out any serious discussion of Olympic cricket until either Scotland secedes from the UK or the ECB gives up its veto power at the ICC.

 

[Howardh]

I'd like to hear the views of Michael Holding and Viv Richards as well - as well as being TV commentators respected around the globe (including in India) they were both involved in resolving the last major West Indies dispute.

The biggest problem for the West Indies is not their internal disputes (the board can sack players and replace them from the lower ranks - they've been there before, as did Australia and England in the 1980's) but the fact that they've now got India involved. The BCCI is quite happy with threatening to take their bat and go home when something doesn't go their way (they followed through on the threat last year against South Africa) but nobody's ever found out what would happen if someone else did it to them.


What would definitely kill the West Indies would be the introduction of T20 to the Olympics. Each of the WI countries would have to go through the qualification process in their own right - but this would also apply to the GB team, which rules out any serious discussion of Olympic cricket until either Scotland secedes from the UK or the ECB gives up its veto power at the ICC.

Don't think cricket, in any form, will ever be in the Olympics. It has been in the commonwealths, although was arguably low-key. What COULD get cricket into the Olympics is a wad of cash from, well, India, but even so a sport would have to drop out to make room?

As for cricket itself, I have virtually no interest now in any international series. I just concentrate on Lancashire, never England. The ECB have decided, in their wisdom, to give live cricket to a pay channel. So I can't watch. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Busaholic]

Don't think cricket, in any form, will ever be in the Olympics. It has been in the commonwealths, although was arguably low-key. What COULD get cricket into the Olympics is a wad of cash from, well, India, but even so a sport would have to drop out to make room?

As for cricket itself, I have virtually no interest now in any international series. I just concentrate on Lancashire, never England. The ECB have decided, in their wisdom, to give live cricket to a pay channel. So I can't watch. Out of sight, out of mind.

Well, cricket WAS in the OlympicS IN 1900! GB v France, the host nation. GB won and got a silver, the French a bronze just for competing!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well, cricket WAS in the OlympicS IN 1900! GB v France, the host nation. GB won and got a silver, the French a bronze just for competing!

Indeed it was in a 2-day match on 19th and 20th August 1900....

Great Britain (1st innings) 117 all out
France (1st innings) 78 all out....Frederick Christian 7-25

Great Britain (2nd innings) 145-5 declared
France (2nd innings) 26 all out...Montague Toller 7-9

The silver and bronze medals were late upgraded to gold and silver medals.

 

[DownSouth]

The BCCI is likely to send the WICB a bill for around US$60,000,000 lost revenue after a meeting tomorrow. There's no way the WICB could possibly pay that, so at least part of it will certainly be 'paid off' by future tours being cancelled.

The bill will be mitigated a bit by the scheduling of five ODI matches against Sri Lanka, so only 12 match days will be lost.

Don't think cricket, in any form, will ever be in the Olympics. It has been in the commonwealths, although was arguably low-key. What COULD get cricket into the Olympics is a wad of cash from, well, India, but even so a sport would have to drop out to make room?

Any competently-run sport would want to be in the Olympics in the name of expansion. But there's the problem - the ICC operates purely to take care of their own, not to promote the sport.

The 1998 Commonwealth Games was a failure because it used the ODI format which is not really fit for use in a large multi-sport event. But since that time T20 has arrived, and has worked well at the Asian Games which are, in global terms, at least as significant as the Commonwealth Games.

T20 at the Olympics will be on the table at the ICC as soon as the issue of TeamGB gets sorted out - a compromise could be possible in the form of regional qualification tournaments which TeamGB would probably win in Europe. To avoid it being an imbalanced tournament dominated by the in crowd, the current ICC full member nations (including English players in TeamGB) could be restricted to under 23 players as the Olympic soccer teams are, but with other nations having unrestricted choice including players who had previously left and played for an ICC full member team (e.g. Eoin Morgan for Ireland and Dirk Nannes for the Netherlands).

As for cricket itself, I have virtually no interest now in any international series. I just concentrate on Lancashire, never England. The ECB have decided, in their wisdom, to give live cricket to a pay channel. So I can't watch. Out of sight, out of mind.

Interestingly, according to Cricinfo this is a point on which you agree with the writer of Kevin Pietersen's new book. I wonder if Kevin Pietersen himself has heard of it though, it might compromise his chance of getting a media job in the next few years.

You should lobby the government to place certain international cricket series (e.g. home Tests which are sold out, away Ashes tours and the World Cup) on a protected list which must be shown on free to air TV in the interest of protecting competiton, starting from the expiry of the current contract with Sky.

 

[Busaholic]

Interestingly, according to Cricinfo this is a point on which you agree with the writer of Kevin Pietersen's new book. I wonder if Kevin Pietersen himself has heard of it though, it might compromise his chance of getting a media job in the next few years.

I'm profoundly shocked - are you suggesting that KP did not write every last word of his 'autobiography'?

 

[DownSouth]

No, but I will put it diplomatically and suggest that it is just like the 140 character writings of Broad and Swann - he probably "had access to it" but didn't write anything.

The talk of the bullying culture in the team (and the chief proponents of the anti-KP faction) would seem to be realistic according to a few little things I saw during the 2010-11 tour here, things you wouldn't see on TV.

• At the Adelaide Test, the same England players who politely applauded the Australian batsmen's 50s (something they didn't do last summer for even centuries) were nowhere to be seen at the dressing room window when KP reached 100 and 200.
• At the same match, he was often fielding at deep third man at both ends while just about every other player got to swap to a position near where they were at the opposite end (i.e. midwicket became cover, etc)
• At the T20 in Adelaide, Swann came over to where KP was fielding in front of us and took him to task for standing too back on the boundary after he safely fielded one on the bounce. He shifted in to where Swann told him to go and the next ball got hit straight over his head to bounce a couple of metres in front of the rope, but which would have been an easy catch if Swann hadn't been so bossy.
• He clapped when Watson hit Swann for three consecutive sixes!
• When the first wicket fell the next over, KP stood where he was in front of the rope, preferring to cop the heckling from the crowd over joining the rest of the team in the middle.

I didn't notice any of those little things during the Adelaide Test last summer, but I didn't really have time to as I was busy working on the stadium audio-visual team.

 

[Oswyntail]

...
The talk of the bullying culture in the team (and the chief proponents of the anti-KP faction) would seem to be realistic according to a few little things I saw during the 2010-11 tour here,....

Of course, any of those little things might just as easily by symptoms of a player who had made himself mightily unpopular. And, if the "bullying culture" was so bad, why has no one else in the team said anything about it?

 

[DownSouth]

Well, yes.

Maybe "factionalism" would have been a better word to use (not the only way in which the English cricket team currently resembles the Australian Labor Party) though I would submit that Swann berating a fielder at a time when he was neither the bowler or (unfortunately for Australian fans that summer) the captain would count as bullying.

 

[Howardh]

Briefly r/e the GB problem and getting a team into the Olympics - Curling at the winter Olympics has it sorted, the highest placed and qualified UK rink (team) will represent GB, and it's always Scotland of course.
So, in cricket, there could be a home-countries playoff to decide which of the four (or more likely two as NI is "Ireland" I think, and it's the England and Wales Cricket Board so that's covered) represents GB.
Now, whether England would qualify and then draft in some Scots or Welsh lads, let alone Morgan, would remain to be seen.