Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

[Horizon22]

I'm fairly confident it's that.

I’ve also found some managers believe control to be a “dark art” (or are led to believe it is) so can’t actively intervene or don’t know how to.

Unfortunately the number of people who know how the systems work and have the impetus and ability to make change happen is extremely small.

 

[irish_rail]

Turnarounds of under 30 minutes are asking for trouble frankly. Most long distance stuff on the Western at least is at least 10 late (on a good day), and I feel sorry for the cleaning staff desperately trying to clean the train in record time. I'd say the average delay is 10 to 20 mins late at moment, so really we need to be looking at turnarounds of 45 minutes minimum in order to provide a decent experience for customers (and staff).

 

[Hadders]

I've witnessed dangerous schenes at Euston, most recently in early December while waiting for a friend to arrive on an incoming train.

The train was an LNR ex-Crewe train and was due to arrive into Platform 4 at 16:28. The same train was then due to form the 16:46 service to Crewe. The train was running about 8 minutes late so the turnaround was going to be tight.

Just as the train arrived the platform for the 16:46 was announced. So you had a stampded of people running down the ramp for the 16:46 coinciding with passengers from a very busy train walking in the opposite direction on the same ramp.

It seemed to me as though it would have been better for the 16:46 to have been announced before the train arrived into the platform. Get the passengers off the busy concourse and onto the platform. It would lessen the effect of the stampded and would mean passegers are in position to board the train as soon as arriving passengers have alighted.

To be fair this might not work with Avanti services given the need to clean the train, but they generally have longer turnaround times.

 

[185143]

ORR apparently have issued an Improvement Notice about this.

I boarded an Avanti service the other day which had arrived late and been swapped in fairness.

When the platform was displayed, the new screens said "Platform closes in 2:52".

Who's idea it was to display that, it's about the worst thing they could have done! Admittedly I was pleasantly surprised that the RPIs who opened the gates didn't even attempt to check and told us to just board the train.

 

[bramling]

I've witnessed dangerous schenes at Euston, most recently in early December while waiting for a friend to arrive on an incoming train.

The train was an LNR ex-Crewe train and was due to arrive into Platform 4 at 16:28. The same train was then due to form the 16:46 service to Crewe. The train was running about 8 minutes late so the turnaround was going to be tight.

Just as the train arrived the platform for the 16:46 was announced. So you had a stampded of people running down the ramp for the 16:46 coinciding with passengers from a very busy train walking in the opposite direction on the same ramp.

It seemed to me as though it would have been better for the 16:46 to have been announced before the train arrived into the platform. Get the passengers off the busy concourse and onto the platform. It would lessen the effect of the stampded and would mean passegers are in position to board the train as soon as arriving passengers have alighted.

To be fair this might not work with Avanti services given the need to clean the train, but they generally have longer turnaround times.

King’s Cross started doing exactly this during FCC days and it was a menace. The worst possible moment is just as the incoming train is arriving, as like you describe it results in flows conflicting. I emailed to complain about it and received a belligerent response.

 

[Benjwri]

Paddington's speciality is calling a train when another one on the same island has just arrived and is tipping out. That really is dangerous.

This is a problem everywhere. When the Elizabeth Line first started through running I took a train out to Shenfield then took GA back as I was late.

Just as I was getting to the end of the platform at Liverpool Street an unbelievable amount of passengers appeared and the crowd knocked me off my feet, I genuinely came centimetres from falling onto the tracks. Three people in Greater Anglia uniform walked past me just after I fell and didn’t even check on me, the disregard for safety by some staff is appalling at some London terminals.

 

[Essexman]

Contrast Liverpool Lime Street when you can board London trains soon after they arrive. Much more relaxed.

 

[The Planner]

What is the typical time for a turnaround for an Avanti train at Euston on a good day and apart from loading the catering and variable levels of cleaning tasks ,what else is taking place during this time?

I'm trying to understand what is preventing even slightly earlier boarding as quite rightly people are predicting a serious accident due to the stampeding.

Minimum of 20 is mandated for a West Mids, increasing for Manchester and Scotland up to 40 minutes.

 

[Par]

Contrast Liverpool Lime Street when you can board London trains soon after they arrive. Much more relaxed.

Also Manchester Piccadilly. I assume there is more servicing of the trains in London than at other termini, otherwise it is frankly pathetic not to emulate what happens in Liverpool and Manchester.

At the very least where an inbound service is late, announce the platform and have passengers queuing on the ramps once it has arrived, rather than having the scrum.

I find RTT pretty accurate for platform information and it nearly always shows as “at platform“ long before a concourse announcement, so I am personally not affected so much.

Why, if a service is at the platform, can passengers not be advised to queue on the ramps? A bit like airport style “go to gate”.

People charging down those ramps under the current arrangements will almost certainly result in a serious injury someday.

 

[Horizon22]

I've witnessed dangerous schenes at Euston, most recently in early December while waiting for a friend to arrive on an incoming train.

The train was an LNR ex-Crewe train and was due to arrive into Platform 4 at 16:28. The same train was then due to form the 16:46 service to Crewe. The train was running about 8 minutes late so the turnaround was going to be tight.

Just as the train arrived the platform for the 16:46 was announced. So you had a stampded of people running down the ramp for the 16:46 coinciding with passengers from a very busy train walking in the opposite direction on the same ramp.

It seemed to me as though it would have been better for the 16:46 to have been announced before the train arrived into the platform. Get the passengers off the busy concourse and onto the platform. It would lessen the effect of the stampded and would mean passegers are in position to board the train as soon as arriving passengers have alighted.

To be fair this might not work with Avanti services given the need to clean the train, but they generally have longer turnaround times.

The latter seems to happen all the time at more metro focussed terminals. For example Charing Cross and Victoria seem to announce as soon as the arrival platform is known. At peak time, a (generally) orderly queue forms.

Turnarounds of under 30 minutes are asking for trouble frankly. Most long distance stuff on the Western at least is at least 10 late (on a good day), and I feel sorry for the cleaning staff desperately trying to clean the train in record time. I'd say the average delay is 10 to 20 mins late at moment, so really we need to be looking at turnarounds of 45 minutes minimum in order to provide a decent experience for customers (and staff).

Then you wouldn’t have a viable timetable at Paddington

 

[BayPaul]

Perhaps a rule that states that if the correct platform isn't announced at least (say) 10 mins before departure, then it will count as cancelled for statistics, delay repay etc would help focus TOCs to get this right.

 

[Horizon22]

Perhaps a rule that states that if the correct platform isn't announced at least (say) 10 mins before departure, then it will count as cancelled for statistics, delay repay etc would help focus TOCs to get this right.

That’s ridiculous. Sometimes you can’t help but board a train late for a myriad of reasons (late running, awaiting crew, specialist cleaning, loading stock etc.). The later it is, the more there is going to be a rush, and that’s unfortunately inevitable. I’ve seen this on all operators and multiple stations; people gather and wait and then make a dash for it. Also what if you board the train when it’s not there and it’s routed into a different platform? Common during disruption.

Euston’s layout does not help matters here, nor does the way they manage platform boarding and Euston has a particular and notorious issue here but it’s not quite as black & white as made out to be.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

This is a problem everywhere. When the Elizabeth Line first started through running I took a train out to Shenfield then took GA back as I was late.

Just as I was getting to the end of the platform at Liverpool Street an unbelievable amount of passengers appeared and the crowd knocked me off my feet, I genuinely came centimetres from falling onto the tracks. Three people in Greater Anglia uniform walked past me just after I fell and didn’t even check on me, the disregard for safety by some staff is appalling at some London terminals.

My experience of Liverpool Street, admittedly on the InterCity side is that generally it's a case of let everyone off first and then everyone gets onto the platform in their own time. There's usually about 30 mins turnaround time though.

I don't see what the issue is with having people standing on the platform in advance though as with any other station in the country

 

[bramling]

My experience of Liverpool Street, admittedly on the InterCity side is that generally it's a case of let everyone off first and then everyone gets onto the platform in their own time. There's usually about 30 mins turnaround time though.

I don't see what the issue is with having people standing on the platform in advance though as with any other station in the country

No issue with having people already waiting on the platform. What *is* an issue is advertising the platform just as the train is pulling in, as that causes the two flows to conflict just at the worst moment. Network Rail unfortunately do exactly that at some locations, and it’s a pain in the backside. The old King’s Cross platforms 10/11 island was a particularly problematic example.

 

[dk1]

My experience of Liverpool Street, admittedly on the InterCity side is that generally it's a case of let everyone off first and then everyone gets onto the platform in their own time. There's usually about 30 mins turnaround time though.

I don't see what the issue is with having people standing on the platform in advance though as with any other station in the country

It can cause issues at Liverpool Street as the platforms are quite narrow. It does happen with late running however as even with the old Intercity sets we are expected to turnaround in 8 minutes.

 

[Benjwri]

My experience of Liverpool Street, admittedly on the InterCity side is that generally it's a case of let everyone off first and then everyone gets onto the platform in their own time. There's usually about 30 mins turnaround time though.

I don't see what the issue is with having people standing on the platform in advance though as with any other station in the country

The issue was that the train I took was running late, at a peak time, so when it was advertised just as it pulled in everyone rushed towards the platform, arriving just as everyone getting off got to the gate line.

 

[alex_alexs28]

Following the ORR notice, N.R Euston, is now doing voice announcements for the platforms in advance, and some minutes later, is showing it on the board. Everything falls under the crowd management commitment, and this is an attempt to make it safer for the passengers.

Euston Station, has a lot of points where overcrowding is likely, hence why you are seeing now those colleagues with the speakers. At all times, the colleagues from Network Rail are doing their best to keep the horizontal corridor as clear as possible. Also, the Network Rail Control Room, who is in charge of the boards, will always try to avoid cross-clashing customers between the arrivals and the departures.

Now, on the ramps, there is new signage that clearly states the space limit for the customers that can wait on the ramps.

The traffic in Euston Station is high. Trains have tight turnarounds, and it becomes so difficult to have a good experience, especially when there is disruption.

Tips:

If you want to know the platforms in advance, you can use Real Time Trains website, but be aware that sometimes set swaps may take place last minute.

Stop looking at the board with the "Next fastest trains" when there is disruption. If a train is delayed, it will show the next train available. This may be an hour later.

Bear with the staff members in the station. Avanti and LNR are dependent on Network Rail for the platforms. Sometimes delayed trains will disappear from the board because there are too many trains that need displayed. The delayed trains usually come back fairly quickly on the board. Network Rail sometimes have to be notified about it and it may take a few minutes until they will place it back.

Use Delay Repay whenever you are entitled too.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Can anyone shed any light as to whether there is actually a ‘control room’ at Euston and, if so, who is represented in it (presumably Network Rail and Avanti and LNW and London Overground)? Is there a dedicated ‘station announcer’?

Or is the whole thing actually driven by automated systems or from ‘regional’ controls miles away in ROCs, Birmingham, etc. on the basis of signalling screens and so on?

I get that things have changed since I first saw the Solari indicator operator in the power signal box back in the early 1970s.

 

[philosopher]

Euston’s layout does not help matters here, nor does the way they manage platform boarding and Euston has a particular and notorious issue here but it’s not quite as black & white as made out to be.

Euston has two particular issues that the other central London terminal generally do not share which exacerbate the Euston scrum. First are the manual ticket checks which is quite time consuming and can create quite a bit of a crowd. I have no idea why Euston does not have automatic barriers like every other central London terminal.

Second are that the platforms are some distance from main concourse, so passengers have quite a lengthy walk to their train. The other terminal generally have the trains right behind the barriers.

These two issues means passengers at Euston will often need 5 to 10 minutes to board the train if they are waiting on the concourse. So announcing a train‘s platform 10 minutes will lead to passengers rushing more than other central London terminals.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

The issue was that the train I took was running late, at a peak time, so when it was advertised just as it pulled in everyone rushed towards the platform, arriving just as everyone getting off got to the gate line.

Sometimes I do wonder if the gate lines are not helping the problem as they do cause crowds in one area rather than spread along platforms.

They do have many positives though in revenue Assurance

 

[Ianmel1969]

Double seat, double seat. Got to get a double seat! Nothing changes does it?

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Double seat, double seat. Got to get a double seat! Nothing changes does it?

True, I never really got that, I travel peak times and I know that's very very unlikely as the train is full so it's actually the difference between someone coming and sitting next to me or me sitting next to someone

 

[yorkie]

If anyone has any suggestions/ideas/proposals for improving the situation at Euston, feel free to contribute to the following thread:

How to make the boarding experience at Euston safer and more pleasant

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/dangerous-boarding-procedures-at-euston.259871/ The whole of Euston's buildings should be quickly removed and fully rebuilt, not waiting for HS2 or the Armageddon. Should be two large sets of barriers for 1-10, and one for 11-16+...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[RJ]

Euston has two particular issues that the other central London terminal generally do not share which exacerbate the Euston scrum. First are the manual ticket checks which is quite time consuming and can create quite a bit of a crowd. I have no idea why Euston does not have automatic barriers like every other central London terminal.

Some platforms (other than 8-11) do. But barriers create their own set of problems. Some people wait until they are at the barrier to prepare their ticket which slows everybody down. If a busy train has tipped out it can take a few minutes to get off the platform. Some TOCs set them up to reject valid etickets, so you then have to find somebody and wait for them to finish dealing with a queue of people before they can let you through.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Voice announcements first? They are presumably aware that that is illegal as it is discriminatory against deaf people?

I thought they were incompetent but this takes the cake. I'd not hesitate to bring a legal case were I deaf.

The solutions are obvious. I've stated them many times.

 

[Peter0124]

Glasgow Central is another place were you generally can't board an Avanti train as soon as it arrives. Most people queue up by platform 1 / 2 to wait for them to be cleaned, or have a ticket inspection.

I don't understand why they need to do a manual ticket inspection at the platform, when they have atleast an hour to check onboard between Glasgow and Carlisle (Nobody is going to alight at a pick-up only Motherwell).

 

[WAB]

Following the ORR notice, N.R Euston, is now doing voice announcements for the platforms in advance, and some minutes later, is showing it on the board. Everything falls under the crowd management commitment, and this is an attempt to make it safer for the passengers.

I don't expect this to last too long before the accessibility groups get it (rightfully) stomped out. Can't think of any good reason for it to not be shown on the board at the same time as it is announced.

 

[Taunton]

Turnarounds of under 30 minutes are asking for trouble frankly. Most long distance stuff on the Western at least is at least 10 late (on a good day), and I feel sorry for the cleaning staff desperately trying to clean the train in record time.

It would be nice if the train was actually being serviced, but experience is that for much of the time it is sat there with nothing going on.

A combination of newer trains not allowing (for some inexplicable reason) boarding without crew being present, and crew not being scheduled to board until the last minute, seem significant contributors. Statements that there is a shortage of platforms, when some are apparently being used as substitute carriage sidings to hold trains in longer term, don't help things.

 

[norbitonflyer]

No issue with having people already waiting on the platform. What *is* an issue is advertising the platform just as the train is pulling in, as that causes the two flows to conflict just at the worst moment. Network Rail unfortunately do exactly that at some locations, and it’s a pain in the backside. The old King’s Cross platforms 10/11 island was a particularly problematic example.

Waterloo too. Not only does it cause a version of "British Bulldog" at the barriers, but it results in the rearmost carriages getting overcrowded as people simply do not have enough time to get to the far end of the train. (Which made the recent expensive lengthening to ten cars on the suburban side a waste of money)

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be nice if the train was actually being serviced, but experience is that for much of the time it is sat there with nothing going on.

A combination of newer trains not allowing (for some inexplicable reason) boarding without crew being present, and crew not being scheduled to board until the last minute, seem significant contributors. Statements that there is a shortage of platforms, when some are apparently being used as substitute carriage sidings to hold trains in longer term, don't help things.

This is a security policy issue. Trains used to be left unlocked at Euston and haven't been for a while. They still are at Marylebone.