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DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)
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RailUK Forums
I did see the post about them "having to slow them down" but not much more detail than that.
My question is are they accelerating so fast that the CBTC cannot handle it? Its not a problem I have ever heard of and surely they can just slow them down? I mean the CBTC is about as well as established as you could hope and it used by various other railways around the world and London too.
My question is are they accelerating so fast that the CBTC cannot handle it? Its not a problem I have ever heard of and surely they can just slow them down? I mean the CBTC is about as well as established as you could hope and it used by various other railways around the world and London too.
Wasn’t the speed reduction about the current trains (too) ?
You have the wrong end of the stick there. TfL realised that current speeds are slightly too high on some curves, and have reduced the operating speed accordingly by 5km/h in those locations. It may well have been discovered during testing for the new units, but it applies to all the trains
This is not good news --> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...r-new-trains-delayed-tfl-london-b1184384.html
Agreed. Delayed indefinitely doesn’t mean it will be years we’ll be waiting but no way they’re here before the end of the year.
That timeline seems reasonable but I wonder if the B90/B92 stock can last that long before they need to be expensively overhauled or taken out of service.
Snow1964
Established Member
TfL Board Programmes and Investment committee papers now available, on page 20 of report (page 47 of pack) says none will be introduced this year.
Mentions the legacy signalling and going to fast, and also software update. Says do have a programme for new train introduction, but needs to be stress tested....
Sorry unable to copy the pdf report format text on my device
Mentions the legacy signalling and going to fast, and also software update. Says do have a programme for new train introduction, but needs to be stress tested....
Sorry unable to copy the pdf report format text on my device
Snow1964
Established Member
KeolisAmey have been given a franchise extension from 1st April 2025 until 2033. Mentions introducing 54 new trains
www.facilitatemagazine.com
KeolisAmey stays on board with DLR until 2033
Transport infrastructure operator KeolisAmey has secured an eight-year extension to its existing contract with Transport for London (TfL) to maintain the Docklands Light Railway (DLR).
Just saw 03 at Beckton a few minutes ago, still running around fine
DaventryRabbit
Member
Great thanks for that!
There's a noticeable service reduction this week, ostensibly because of engineering works for expanding the Beckton depot preventing trains getting out. Various notices around, mostly stating just generally "a reduction", and of course for more information go to TfL website or App. Unfortunately when you do so there is exactly the same sentence, word-for-word. Nothing more ...
One hears that the account a few weeks ago of speed limitations on the system, which sounded a bit strange, was actually about timings for brake applications etc, which had worked fine for a generation with the current stock, not being good enough for the new stock, and they may have had an overrun in the trials. As the system will now be handling both types of trains, it was necessary to extend out some timings by a few seconds at various stops, to allow the system to handle both existing stock and their new, weaker brethren.
One hears that the account a few weeks ago of speed limitations on the system, which sounded a bit strange, was actually about timings for brake applications etc, which had worked fine for a generation with the current stock, not being good enough for the new stock, and they may have had an overrun in the trials. As the system will now be handling both types of trains, it was necessary to extend out some timings by a few seconds at various stops, to allow the system to handle both existing stock and their new, weaker brethren.
Received an email from TfL today advising new DLR timetable to be introduced next Monday, 4th November.
”The new timetable will restore the direct peak hour services between Stratford and Lewisham, which were removed after the initial review. Some services that previously terminated at Canning Town will also be extended to Stratford International.
The new timetable will accommodate the speed restrictions that have been put in place while returning services to broadly the same levels as before, although some journeys will still take slightly longer than before the restrictions were introduced.”
Hopefully it will mean services are more regular. Recently the Stratford - Canary Wharf has become fairly irregular, presumably not helped by the single track sections. Though a train on average every 5 minutes is still good even if it’s sometimes been 2 minutes then 8 minutes recently.
”The new timetable will restore the direct peak hour services between Stratford and Lewisham, which were removed after the initial review. Some services that previously terminated at Canning Town will also be extended to Stratford International.
The new timetable will accommodate the speed restrictions that have been put in place while returning services to broadly the same levels as before, although some journeys will still take slightly longer than before the restrictions were introduced.”
Hopefully it will mean services are more regular. Recently the Stratford - Canary Wharf has become fairly irregular, presumably not helped by the single track sections. Though a train on average every 5 minutes is still good even if it’s sometimes been 2 minutes then 8 minutes recently.
Not quite, they discovered that the trains had been running slightly faster than they should have for the braking curve, and going round corners a couple of mph too fast. It was discovered during testing of the new trains but it doesn't seem to be because of them, as such. One might imagine that the fact no DLR train had jumped off the tracks might be a good reason to assume that the braking curve was too restrictive in the first place, but that would be far too sensible
If I'm reading this correctly, the Beckton-Canning Town services will be extended to Stratford Int? Good to hear they're sorting out the speed issues quickly. Hopefully this means that the new trains can start service soon.
Just to amplify what others have said, the speed issue is to do with the current trains, it's just the issue was apparently identified whilst testing the new trains. The speed restrictions will remain in place and become the "norm" for both the existing and new trains whenever they do eventually enter service.
StratfordP
Member
Looks from journey planners that they are planning to run some DLR services just to pudding mill lane… presumably to get around inevitable congestion at Stratford with the new timetable?
Having checked TfL Journey Planner, I can't see any trains terminating at Pudding Mill Lane. Stratford 4A/4B can handle a 4-5 minute service.
I can confirm that the Beckton - Canning Town services have been extended to Stratford International
Attachments
If anyone is interested in hearing the new automated announcements voice used on the DLR B23 Stock (and LU 2024 Stock too) she can be heard here in this article published today:
www.acapela-group.com
It is a synthetic Text To Speech voice but sounds very good and it is hardly noticeable that she is TTS and not an actual voiceover artist.
Acapela Group | Digital custom voice created by Acapela Group will guide London Underground passengers on the Piccadilly line
A synthetic British voice is to inform passengers travelling on the new fleet of trains on the London Underground's Piccadilly line from the end of 2025
www.acapela-group.com
It is a synthetic Text To Speech voice but sounds very good and it is hardly noticeable that she is TTS and not an actual voiceover artist.
Vexed
Member
Compared to a voice artist it's fine, but it sounds like it's been done in the same way where they "record" short tracks which are then stiched together (the first recording has some timing issues near the end). It would sound a lot better if the TTS was generated live so the gaps between words, intonations, and other speech features dependent on the previous/next word flow better. The actual voice is fine though, it doens't sound robotic.
I appreciate generating the same text live every time is pointless, but they could at least generate normal stopping patterns from each station as one continuous flow. Then fall back to stitching station names together if there are any changes.
Given these speed restrictions have now become permanent, I was pleasantly surprised to see the re-introduction of the peak Stratford to Lewisham service. I was more surprised, with the need to reduce the mileage on the older stock, to see the extension of the Beckton to Canning Town service to Stratford International. I wonder if this means the DLR are confident about introducing the new trains soon? And if so, would this Beckton to Stratford International service be the perfect place to "soft launch" them before introducing them on the busier routes?
I don't think that they will start rolling out this year. Most likely January/February if TFL is ready for them. I agree with what you said about the Beckton-Stratford Int service. My guess is that the first lot will be mainly on the Beckton routes, considering its close proximity and ease of access to Beckton Depot if needed to be taken out of service.