Elizabeth line reliability issues

[londonmidland]

National Rail Enquires has just updated to inform that major disruption is to be expected until 10:00 tomorrow. No doubt this will be a constantly changing situation.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why does such a thing take so long to fix bearing in mind this has been going on all day?

There’s technicians crawling all over it, and have been all day, evidently it’s a real head scratcher.

 

[Samzino]

There is reports the signal issue won't be fixed till tomorrow and thus will affect the morning peak initially. Ofc as of current there is still special services running to and from Paddington to the east.

As a precaution most stations will be preparing for crowd management procedures as expected for that early morning peak. Mainly any station that feeds passengers into the Elizabeth will see some measures to reduce flow.

 

[Acton1991]

And still no direct communication/email from TfL. Madness

 

[rob.rjt]

My other half uses the Elizabeth Line every day for work (works a slightly odd schedule so may not get caught in some things), but this is the first time they have been seriously affected. What galls me is that the long distance GWR services seem unaffected - there was no plan to use some main line capacity to run Elizabeth Line services for those stations that get nothing else. Nothing westbound at Slough from 1722 to 1852. No replacement buses organised, no help from station staff, passengers just left to fend for themselves.

 

[bicbasher]

Commuication from TfL when it comes to these issues has also been poor on the London Overground. A few months back, the ELL core was suspended due to a bridge strike and there was no information from TfL neither online or at stations managed by them bar from a station assistant at Whitechapel who told passengers to use alternative routes.

Yet NRE were able to explain exactly what had happened.

 

[irish_rail]

My other half uses the Elizabeth Line every day for work (works a slightly odd schedule so may not get caught in some things), but this is the first time they have been seriously affected. What galls me is that the long distance GWR services seem unaffected - there was no plan to use some main line capacity to run Elizabeth Line services for those stations that get nothing else. Nothing westbound at Slough from 1722 to 1852. No replacement buses organised, no help from station staff, passengers just left to fend for themselves.

Eh? There has been massive disruption to intercity services,causing delays right down as far as Cornwall! This one small area has screwed up the whole Western, , causing missed connections that will result in bigger delays for passengers than those being faced by Elizabeth line passengers.

 

[Fastlane256]

This signalling issue seems to be quite dramatic. At the moment, my train from Reading to Paddington is 179 mins late. I think I will be going SWR this time (which I normally do when not going directly into London from the office). I haven't seen it this bad in a while. The most memorable being the 2014 floods on the GWML.

Eh? There has been massive disruption to intercity services,causing delays right down as far as Cornwall! This one small area has screwed up the whole Western, , causing missed connections that will result in bigger delays for passengers than those being faced by Elizabeth line passengers.

The area from Paddington to reading was described as the golden 30 miles of track. This meant that if a single screw up occurred on that section, the entire service was doomed.

 

[Benjwri]

What galls me is that the long distance GWR services seem unaffected - there was no plan to use some main line capacity to run Elizabeth Line services for those stations that get nothing else. Nothing westbound at Slough from 1722 to 1852.

Main line capacity is being used to run a limited Elizabeth Line service, and the only stations that aren’t getting service is because trains cannot stop at them on the relief lines.

There is a pre determined plan for who gets what paths in these circumstances, when the main lines are closed GWR long distance suffers, and in my experiences that happens far more often. There are vital commuter flows across the South West that rely on GWR from Paddington too, the Elizabeth line shouldn’t have priority no matter what.

And it is far more annoying when your train in Bristol is cancelled due to a London signalling dault than where it is only 10 or so miles away

 

[Fastlane256]

Main line capacity is being used to run a limited Elizabeth Line service, and the only stations that aren’t getting service is because trains cannot stop at them on the relief lines.

There is a pre determined plan for who gets what paths in these circumstances, when the main lines are closed GWR long distance suffers, and in my experiences that happens far more often. There are vital commuter flows across the South West that rely on GWR from Paddington too, the Elizabeth line shouldn’t have priority no matter what.

And it is far more annoying when your train in Bristol is cancelled due to a London signalling dault than where it is only 10 or so miles away

but the Elizabeth line also branches off to the east meaning it affects two mainline signalling regions(potentially). I don't know what would be prioritised.

 

[Taunton]

Eh? There has been massive disruption to intercity services, causing delays right down as far as Cornwall!

Yes, but there are still plenty of trains running on the Main lines, including platoons of them at close headways. Sure, all seem to be late, but not apparent why. Both my journeys to Slough and back on the Mains had notably slow running and multiple signal stops between Paddington and Airport Junction. Over on the Reliefs, a number of freights appeared recessed.

 

[irish_rail]

Yes, but there are still plenty of trains running on the Main lines, including platoons of them at close headways. Sure, all seem to be late, but not apparent why. Both my journeys to Slough and back on the Mains had notably slow running and multiple signal stops between Paddington and Airport Junction. Over on the Reliefs, a number of freights appeared recessed.

Due to following the stoppers which are running up and down the mains.

 

[Benjwri]

but the Elizabeth line also branches off to the east meaning it affects two mainline signalling regions(potentially). I don't know what would be prioritised.

The delays on the Elizabeth Line can be, and were today, contained just to the West though mostly, with more trains turning around at Paddington from both directions.

Yes, but there are still plenty of trains running on the Main lines, including platoons of them at close headways. Sure, all seem to be late, but not apparent why. Both my journeys to Slough and back on the Mains had notably slow running and multiple signal stops between Paddington and Airport Junction. Over on the Reliefs, a number of freights appeared recessed.

As mentioned, following the Elizabeth Line services. I can remember many times that the exact opposite situation has occurred, with Elizabeth Line running unaffected while GWR is severely delayed because of an incident on the mains. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, the Elizabeth Line has won plenty of times.

Nothing westbound at Slough from 1722 to 1852

As a side note this is also entirely untrue. 3 GWR Didcot trains were stopped extra to their normal timetable in this period.

 

[rd749249]

We came out of Paddington P11 & 12 onto the mains at Portobello Jct / Ladbroke Grove. We went back to the Reliefs at Southall West. We only stopped at Ealing and Southall on the mains. I did a lot of waiting in both directions. Having the signals spaced much further apart doesn't help either. Signallers did a great job, the guy on the Pad desk especially. He was clearly up to his eyeballs when I spoke to him.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

This signalling issue seems to be quite dramatic. At the moment, my train from Reading to Paddington is 179 mins late. I think I will be going SWR this time (which I normally do when not going directly into London from the office). I haven't seen it this bad in a while. The most memorable being the 2014 floods on the GWML.

Was that the one that was around Maidenhead? I was going to mention that before I saw your post (though I can’t believe it was 9 years ago!)

I have clear memories of being on one of four services which were sat at each through platform at Maidenhead, even though none were calling there. At each signal for a few miles, we’d have to wait several minutes before getting manual clearance to proceed.

While obviously irritating, I don’t remember it being anywhere near as bad as what’s reported today. We were regularly updated on what was happening, and delays, rather than cancellations, are what I recall predominating. I never considered driving instead during that period, and I was quite impressed by the efforts to minimise inconvenience. I wonder how many passengers (or would-be passengers) came away impressed today.

Given the general efforts to discourage driving in favour of other transport modes, it’s strange that those who do take the train are, seemingly, treated as some kind of nuisance more often than they should be.

 

[TFN]

So this is what happens on my Rest Day. Nothing fun happens on my shifts .

With the person wondering why HEX was reduced as well, a lot of contingency plans automatically reduce HEX down to 2tph, the Maidenhead terminators get dropped to Paddington and either the T5 or half of the T4 services drop to Paddington.

The last few weeks in my experience working on the line has been smooth sailing. Passengers haven’t “given up” or “become wary” of the line. People know that a bad day happens.

 

[Thirteen]

So this is what happens on my Rest Day. Nothing fun happens on my shifts .

With the person wondering why HEX was reduced as well, a lot of contingency plans automatically reduce HEX down to 2tph, the Maidenhead terminators get dropped to Paddington and either the T5 or half of the T4 services drop to Paddington.

The last few weeks in my experience working on the line has been smooth sailing. Passengers haven’t “given up” or “become wary” of the line. People know that a bad day happens.

Honestly, people are so hyperbolic and eager to declare the Elizabeth Line as a failure, probably want it to be shut down as well.

 

[Horizon22]

Same broad service plan expected for start of service tomorrow although some trains have had to be stabled in some odd positions so might be some quirks although the reduced service to the West will probably run from Abbey Wood at least.

While obviously irritating, I don’t remember it being anywhere near as bad as what’s reported today. We were regularly updated on what was happening, and delays, rather than cancellations, are what I recall predominating.

Quite different when an intensive metro operation is running which is much more likely to lead to cancellations rather than delays. For the outer fringes of the line people might drive, but they’re not driving into Zone 1.

 

[JN114]

HEx half hourly is to free up capacity on the main lines for MTR stopping services to run. It is a “standard” response to any unplanned 2-track railway in the inner Thames Valley.

Considering how often people are calling for these supposedly fresh-air carrying trains to be abolished entirely, I do find it amusingly ironic that there’s then complaints when it’s reduced to make room for MTR.

 

[Miken]

Weds 26/7 0558 - Currently at Ealing Broadway trying to get to work at Heathrow... Elizabeth line a total and utter shambles, no trains to LHR, wrong platforms displayed (0602 to Paddington displayed on P4 but that platform is closed and taped off).

 

[Taunton]

HEx half hourly is to free up capacity on the main lines for MTR stopping services to run. It is a “standard” response to any unplanned 2-track railway in the inner Thames Valley.

Considering how often people are calling for these supposedly fresh-air carrying trains to be abolished entirely, I do find it amusingly ironic that there’s then complaints when it’s reduced to make room for MTR.

I have seen these several comments about the gross disruption of GWR and HEx services being to free up space for Eliz stopping services. Well they weren't there. I rode Paddington to Slough and back facing the opposite line and didn't pass a single Eliz train in the whole journey both ways. Nor were there passengers on any of the platforms, Main or Relief lines, with that single exception I noted of at Ealing Broadway Down Main in the evening. Nor were there any stoppers shown on the departure boards at Paddington at all, which were just full of GWR trains.

Now I may have been extraordinarily unlucky both ways. But it's rather unlikely ...

 

[irish_rail]

I have seen these several comments about the gross disruption of GWR and HEx services being to free up space for Eliz stopping services. Well they weren't there. I rode Paddington to Slough and back facing the opposite line and didn't pass a single Eliz train in the whole journey both ways. Nor were there passengers on any of the platforms, Main or Relief lines, with that single exception I noted of at Ealing Broadway Down Main in the evening. Nor were there any stoppers shown on the departure boards at Paddington at all, which were just full of GWR trains.

Now I may have been extraordinarily unlucky both ways. But it's rather unlikely

Well I passed plenty of Liz line trains , plus platforms absolutely thronging with people on the Mainlines at several stations. I think you did just get lucky!

 

[rob.rjt]

Yes, but there are still plenty of trains running on the Main lines, including platoons of them at close headways. Sure, all seem to be late, but not apparent why. Both my journeys to Slough and back on the Mains had notably slow running and multiple signal stops between Paddington and Airport Junction. Over on the Reliefs, a number of freights appeared recessed.

This is this the thing. I looked at RTT (best source I could find at the time). The screenshots of my searches are included. In the period 1400 to 1900 there were 2 westbound fast cancellations (I couldn't seem to restrict to W/B only so all non-stops are shown) compared to 18 stopping cancellations.

As a side note this is also entirely untrue. 3 GWR Didcot trains were stopped extra to their normal timetable in this period.

Sorry if I missed this. I am relying on RTT information and what my other half reported when I picked them up - that there was no service to all four intermediate stations between Slough and Reading between those times - certainly nothing advertised on the boards. I know that RTT won't pick up on special stop orders so it may be that all four stations did get service, just not an advertised one.

 

[Horizon22]

I have seen these several comments about the gross disruption of GWR and HEx services being to free up space for Eliz stopping services. Well they weren't there. I rode Paddington to Slough and back facing the opposite line and didn't pass a single Eliz train in the whole journey both ways. Nor were there passengers on any of the platforms, Main or Relief lines, with that single exception I noted of at Ealing Broadway Down Main in the evening. Nor were there any stoppers shown on the departure boards at Paddington at all, which were just full of GWR trains.

Now I may have been extraordinarily unlucky both ways. But it's rather unlikely ...

You wouldn’t have passed any. They’d have been on the same lines until Hayes & Harlington and considering there’s only 2tph west of there (with delays) and you’re running fast, high chance you wouldn’t see one.

There were just 7-8 trains west of Paddington for the whole route (to and from London) such was the level of disruption. You can’t diagram many services with that. The vast majority remained stuck in Old Oak Common depot, a problem persisting today.

 

[SWT_USER]

HEx half hourly is to free up capacity on the main lines for MTR stopping services to run. It is a “standard” response to any unplanned 2-track railway in the inner Thames Valley.

Considering how often people are calling for these supposedly fresh-air carrying trains to be abolished entirely, I do find it amusingly ironic that there’s then complaints when it’s reduced to make room for MTR.

Or alternatively, Elizabeth line services are reduced to make way for HEX...

Really HEX should be the first thing to be canned. Let Heathrow passengers take the Elizabeth line or Piccadilly line - better to have trains stopping and picking up passengers at intermediate stations on the inner GWML.

 

[TFN]

The only sensible option is to half everyone’s services. Anything else is pure spite to HEx who pay to operate the railway like MTR and everyone else.

I could imagine the uproar if there was a closure in one of the Heathrow tunnels, and a decision is made to can all 6tph of EL services and allow the full 4tph HEx to remain.

 

[Taunton]

The only sensible option is to half everyone’s services. Anything else is pure spite to HEx who pay to operate the railway like MTR and everyone else.

I could imagine the uproar if there was a closure in one of the Heathrow tunnels, and a decision is made to can all 6tph of EL services and allow the full 4tph HEx to remain.

I think we are just doing theory here.

Yesterday on both occasions there were no trains on the boards at Paddington to Heathrow AT ALL. Not one. Just the next HEx shown as cancelled.

 

[Horizon22]

Or alternatively, Elizabeth line services are reduced to make way for HEX...

Really HEX should be the first thing to be canned. Let Heathrow passengers take the Elizabeth line or Piccadilly line - better to have trains stopping and picking up passengers at intermediate stations on the inner GWML.

Why? All operators share the track, have paid for track access and therefore HeX, GWR, Elizabeth line, freight (who we’ve not even discussed can’t get to Acton Yard…) and NR all jointly agree contingency plans at each timetable change for fairness, consistency and to serve all stations.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Theres a sign at the praed Street entrance to Paddington saying due to the signaling issues, only 50% of services across all operators are expected to run today

 

[Horizon22]

Theres a sign at the praed Street entrance to Paddington saying due to the signaling issues, only 50% of services across all operators are expected to run today

I think GWR would be slightly more than 50% although more trains are likely to be turning at Reading than did yesterday considering how badly delayed the services that did run through were after being squeezed through to Hayes.