EMR Class 360's

[43102EMR]

Okay I thought they might have been but wanted to check, thanks for confirming tho.

No worries!

 

[AY1975]

The 360s worked on GA services in 4, 8 and. 12-car units as DOO only. No major problems reported. Also the GA 321's, 379,s and 317's are all DOO in 8 and 12-car operation.

True, but most (though not necessarily all) stations served by GA 317s, 321s and 379s (and 360s when they were in service with GA) have ticket gates. Where they are used on lines with ungated or unstaffed stations (such as Braintree, Clacton and Walton-on-the-Naze) they presumably have ticket examiners on board.

On the St Pancras-Corby line, all stations from St Pancras to Bedford served by EMR are gated, but AFAIK Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby are not (though they might be planned to be gated). In the meantime I don't know whether EMR has (or plans to have) ticket examiners on the units other than the one where the guard is.

 

[Railperf]

True, but most (though not necessarily all) stations served by GA 317s, 321s and 379s (and 360s when they were in service with GA) have ticket gates. Where they are used on lines with ungated or unstaffed stations (such as Braintree, Clacton and Walton-on-the-Naze) they presumably have ticket examiners on board.

On the St Pancras-Corby line, all stations from St Pancras to Bedford served by EMR are gated, but AFAIK Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby are not (though they might be planned to be gated). In the meantime I don't know whether EMR has (or plans to have) ticket examiners on the units other than the one where the guard is.

Revenue protection guys would still board the trains. I guess they would walk through the front four-cars and then switch to the next unit at the next available station.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Yes, that may be correct ref agreement, good point.

Ref specification for the service - I tend to think that with the railways under direct DfT control - with private sector operators running it for DfT, (and a White Paper on the horizon for some sort of new structure), my hunch is that any specification put in the original franchise agreement can probably be altered at the stroke of a civil servants pen (with the possible counter signature of a Minister). Set against that would be pressure from the local MPs I would think.

Of course that does not mean the original plan will not be delivered, but it also does not mean that it will be delivered....

Agree. “It is a franchise commitment” is a meaningless phrase now, as the DfT has full control, and will do what it sees fit. Given the current concerns around the costs of maintaining the railway post COVID, it’s highly likely that a more modest refurbishment will be agreed, regrettably.

 

[43102EMR]

Agree. “It is a franchise commitment” is a meaningless phrase now, as the DfT has full control, and will do what it sees fit. Given the current concerns around the costs of maintaining the railway post COVID, it’s highly likely that a more modest refurbishment will be agreed, regrettably.

Given that contracts will be close to being awarded as part of the original franchise agreement, I think the only thing the DfT will have a say on is the provision of first class. Same seating as the 810s and 170s is still being used.

 

[JaJaWa]

Same seating as the 810s and 170s is still being used.

These?

 

[43102EMR]

These?

I think so, more similar along the lines of these though I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong!

 

[westcoaster]

Are EMR really that shot of class 360's.

Even running as 8 cars only, trains are regularly short formed to 4 car and replaced by 222's

Today the 1351 corby to london is 222103
And the next service is cancelled due to a train fault.

 

[43055]

Are EMR really that shot of class 360's.

Even running as 8 cars only, trains are regularly short formed to 4 car and replaced by 222's

Today the 1351 corby to london is 222103
And the next service is cancelled due to a train fault.

The 1351 is part of a 4 car 222 diagram and runs from Melton but not on Wednesdays.

 

[DG85]

Faults seem to be a daily occurrence with the 360s... Not sure how well they are being maintained

 

[Bob Buckler]

Faults seem to be a daily occurrence with the 360s... Not sure how well they are being maintained

Took my first trip yesterday on a 360.
Wellingborough to Corby on time, but unit, although superficially clean, was shabby and very second hand.
Return from Corby at 11:40 (1H39) departed on time.
Problem with doors at Kettering - Complete power down and switch on again seemed to fix it - Left about 15 minutes late.
More delay at Wellingborough - Departed 30 minutes late - Following 360 used up fast platform.
From Realtime Trains arrived St Pancras 44 minutes late.
A very disappointing trip.
Even more disappointing for my son who accompanied me, who used to travel into London five or more days a week.
He is certainly not looking forward to returning to his London office.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Took my first trip yesterday on a 360.
Wellingborough to Corby on time, but unit, although superficially clean, was shabby and very second hand.
Return from Corby at 11:40 (1H39) departed on time.
Problem with doors at Kettering - Complete power down and switch on again seemed to fix it - Left about 15 minutes late.
More delay at Wellingborough - Departed 30 minutes late - Following train used up fast platform.
From Realtime Trains arrived St Pancras 44 minutes late.
A very disappointing trip.
Even more disappointing for my son who accompanied me, who used to travel into London five or more days a week.
He is certainly not looking forward to returning to his London office.

Teething troubles, I guess? Desiros are pretty reliable kit over here on the WCML.

The 3+2 seating might not be attractive, but that's getting swapped.

 

[Bob Buckler]

Teething troubles, I guess? Desiros are pretty reliable kit over here on the WCML.

The 3+2 seating might not be attractive, but that's getting swapped.

Yes, but how soon?!

 

[Energy]

Teething troubles, I guess? Desiros are pretty reliable kit over here on the WCML.

Siemens handle maintenance on the WCML and used to for the 360s but GA switched in recent years to inhouse (I believe) which has let the units get a bit worse in reliability. They are now back under Siemens so should improve.

 

[43096]

Faults seem to be a daily occurrence with the 360s... Not sure how well they are being maintained

Probably got more to do with lack of experience of them than anything else.

 

[DG85]

Probably got more to do with lack of experience of them than anything else.

This could be true and would only improve with time and experience.

 

[Bald Rick]

Faults seem to be a daily occurrence with the 360s... Not sure how well they are being maintained

Probably got more to do with lack of experience of them than anything else.

Also most of them were parked up doing nothing for most of the past 6-9 months I guess? A few trips out for driver training, but nowhere near as much use as now (or previously at GA). And very little use of the doors in that time. I’ll bet that door trouble is the number one issue...

 

[Wyrleybart]

Probably got more to do with lack of experience of them than anything else.

Totally agree. Give a preowned train to a crew unfamiliar with the trains - electric ones at that, and sadly slickness has to be built from scratch. Given Siemens normal reliability, crew experience and a refit, and believe that in two years they will be steaing the spanners at the Modern Railways awards.

 

[D365]

Also most of them were parked up doing nothing for most of the past 6-9 months I guess? A few trips out for driver training, but nowhere near as much use as now (or previously at GA). And very little use of the doors in that time. I’ll bet that door trouble is the number one issue...

Flat aux batteries maybe!

 

[Aictos]

Are EMR really that shot of class 360's.

Even running as 8 cars only, trains are regularly short formed to 4 car and replaced by 222's

Today the 1351 corby to london is 222103
And the next service is cancelled due to a train fault.

I regularly use the Midland Mainline amongst other routes and I've never not once seen a single EMR Connect service formed of a single Class 360, they've always been formed of a pair of them so I'm slightly confused to your statement saying they're regularly short formed to 4 cars.

It's usually a pair of blue ones, a pair of purple ones or a purple one and a blue one but never ever singles.

 

[Mike395]

I regularly use the Midland Mainline amongst other routes and I've never not once seen a single EMR Connect service formed of a single Class 360, they've always been formed of a pair of them so I'm slightly confused to your statement saying they're regularly short formed to 4 cars.

It's usually a pair of blue ones, a pair of purple ones or a purple one and a blue one but never ever singles.

I’m currently sitting on a 4-car 360 heading into London so can confirm ‘never ever singles’ is not the case!

 

[swt_passenger]

I regularly use the Midland Mainline amongst other routes and I've never not once seen a single EMR Connect service formed of a single Class 360, they've always been formed of a pair of them so I'm slightly confused to your statement saying they're regularly short formed to 4 cars.

It's usually a pair of blue ones, a pair of purple ones or a purple one and a blue one but never ever singles.

I think it’s possible the poster you’re replying to hadn’t realised some “connect services” are replaced by single 222s running the limited number of services that are extended to or from Melton. As shown in the timetable they replace 360s on those particular workings, but this is in the long term timetable, they’re not short forms.

 

[weastebusdepot]

I regularly use the Midland Mainline amongst other routes and I've never not once seen a single EMR Connect service formed of a single Class 360, they've always been formed of a pair of them so I'm slightly confused to your statement saying they're regularly short formed to 4 cars.

It's usually a pair of blue ones, a pair of purple ones or a purple one and a blue one but never ever singles.

At least two of the diagrams running today are single 360s. Meanwhile Kettering Depot Sidings had three units stabled there early afternoon with one showing a 'non multiple' sticker on the windscreen of the London end.

 

[43102EMR]

So have all the 360s been used in passenger service on the MML, or have the ones at Cricklewood not yet been used?

 

[F Great Eastern]

There's nothing wrong with the trains. These were among the most reliable on the UK network in the last couple of years.
Am I right guessing that sitting around in sidings has not been good for them? Did they receive the same level of maintenance in the last six months with the previous TOC or was it run down as transfer time came?
Can it be expected that EMR fitters need more time to get to know these trains inside out?


What did Network Rail do to upgrade the similar design 'knitting' on the ECML and GWML to allow 110mph running?

In the most recent statistics (2020) their reliability fell off a cliff to around 20,000 MTIN if I remember after winning a Golden Spanner in 2019 at 85,000 MTIN and generally having excellent statistics for the years previous to that.

Not sure if that's because Greater Anglia let them go before they knew EMR were taking over them, or because of the fact that they were not under the care of Siemens as much as they were previously, or a bit of both.

Are the 360s able to run in 12 car formations? I thought this was the plan but EMR advised someone on Twitter that they cannot run as 12 cars.

They can and have done so for Greater Anglia. A 12x360 was a sight to behold. True people eaters, if, that is, people actually walked at Liverpool Street to the front of the train.

 

[Aictos]

I’m currently sitting on a 4-car 360 heading into London so can confirm ‘never ever singles’ is not the case!

Those single sets must be in the minority though eg the odd one or two as I see the vast majority of the services every day and they're all doubles, I've yet to come across a single service formed of ONE Class 360.

 

[westcoaster]

Those single sets must be in the minority though eg the odd one or two as I see the vast majority of the services every day and they're all doubles, I've yet to come across a single service formed of ONE Class 360.

Lots of short forms. Train I traveled on today is short formed 4 vice 8. See it most days is now more common than rare.

 

[Aictos]

Lots of short forms. Train I traveled on today is short formed 4 vice 8. See it most days is now more common than rare.

Well I hate to disagree but I've never seen any such services myself as I'm usually travelling in the morning up to 2pm and all the services I see are all 8 cars.

If I see a 4 car then it's very very rare in fact I can count on one hand the times I've seen such a working.

 

[LowLevel]

Those single sets must be in the minority though eg the odd one or two as I see the vast majority of the services every day and they're all doubles, I've yet to come across a single service formed of ONE Class 360.

There are plenty of short forms. You'd hope they were in the minority but they certainly exist.

 

[Aictos]

There are plenty of short forms. You'd hope they were in the minority but they certainly exist.

All I will say is they must mostly only appear in the afternoon then because since they started in passenger service, I see a average of 32 services every weekday morning and not once have any of them been a short formed service.

Therefore I believe they're very much in the minority.