First Greater Glasgow

[route101]

What's it like passenger wise on the south side? Pre-pandemic over at my end you'd only have needed 1 or 2 deckers at most. Quietest of the services via Yoker by far and even up to Anniesland it's not anywhere near as busy as it used to be a few years back.

Great Western Road reliability doesn't help though to be fair. I'd like to see it split in 2 but it's only easy to split it from Calderwood to Hope at Renfrew Street whereas Clydebank to City Centre is harder to find a terminus spot. Wouldn't be the space to use George Square like the 6A

Was only busy at peaks!, i think you get away with just having the 6A up that side. Most people on GWR road use Subway i think. When ive been up top of Byres Road, awkward stops to get to if going to City, i usually just get Subway.

 

[PaulMc7]

Was only busy at peaks!, i think you get away with just having the 6A up that side. Most people on GWR road use Subway i think. When ive been up top of Byres Road, awkward stops to get to if going to City, i usually just get Subway.

Yeah the subway was always far busier than the bus. I do think they could even save on the north side by having a service between Gartnavel and Clydebank, leave the 6A on its own and have another City Centre to East Kilbride service to cover the 6 on the southside even from the top of Renfrew Street as it allows all connections to be made

 

[sannox]

Splitting in two in the town is terrible for people who live southside and commute to west end etc. You'd be best doing two overlapping routes like they used to do in London when they split long routes. Something like a 6 between EK and Anniesland and a 6A between Drum/Clydebank and Cathcart.

I'd also change the 6 to turn left at West George Street to match the eastbound route and save time on the Union Street/Queen Street part.

 

[PaulMc7]

Splitting in two in the town is terrible for people who live southside and commute to west end etc. You'd be best doing two overlapping routes like they used to do in London when they split long routes. Something like a 6 between EK and Anniesland and a 6A between Clydebank and Cathcart.

I'd also change the 6 to turn left at West George Street to match the eastbound route and save time on the Union Street/Queen Street part.

That could work to be fair but Cathcart and Anniesland aren't great places to have a terminus in terms of space. Not even sure where in Cathcart could be used as one and with Anniesland realistically it could be at Knightswood Secondary by continuing along Great Western Road and down Knightswood Road.

The route length has always been a problem but anything over a 90 min route in Glasgow and Lanarkshire definitely doesn't work if you want a reliable service. The problem is that there's quite a few services either almost bang on 90 mins or longer

 

[Jordan Adam]

Given how much of an issue traffic is in Glasgow City Centre it's probably best not splitting routes as not only does it increase PVR, but it means more buses will be going through the centre.

 

[PaulMc7]

Given how much of an issue traffic is in Glasgow City Centre it's probably best not splitting routes as not only does it increase PVR, but it means more buses will be going through the centre.

There's likely to be cuts to frequency because of Covid once funding runs out so not necessarily more buses through the centre or a PVR increase. Reliability will always be a huge factor in passenger numbers not falling off a cliff compared to pre-covid so I feel like the only way to avoid losing even more than expected is to have the most reliable service possible. Price is always a factor too but that's unlikely to go down

 

[Jordan Adam]

There's likely to be cuts to frequency because of Covid once funding runs out so not necessarily more buses through the centre or a PVR increase. Reliability will always be a huge factor in passenger numbers not falling off a cliff compared to pre-covid so I feel like the only way to avoid losing even more than expected is to have the most reliable service possible. Price is always a factor too but that's unlikely to go down

Drastically reducing frequencies, increasing fares and splitting services is what will turn passengers away, all three need to be avoided where possible. Reliability issues can always be fixed by adding in extra running time at key parts of the route, you'll often find that the issue isn't actually the length of the route (a 90 minute route is pretty average) but more lack of decent layover at either end and poor running times throughout, you'll have sections where there's too much running time and sections where there's too little, hence why buses may bunch in certain spots.

 

[PaulMc7]

Drastically reducing frequencies, increasing fares and splitting services is what will turn passengers away, all three need to be avoided where possible. Reliability issues can always be fixed by adding in extra running time at key parts of the route, you'll often find that the issue isn't actually the length of the route (a 90 minute route is pretty average) but more lack of decent layover at either end and poor running times throughout, you'll have sections where there's too much running time and sections where there's too little, hence why buses may bunch in certain spots.

The problem is that First have reliability issues all over the place because of running times that's already lost so many passengers over the years. I think most people would take an every 15 min service that's reliable over an every 10 min service that's a mess for reliability like the 6 for example. To me, going from every 10 min to 12/15 isn't drastic in terms of cuts and I wouldn't suggest anything more severe than that. If services are split but become reliable it would also be so much easier to schedule services in a way that allowed for good interlinking between services.

Pricing is a whole other mess but it's funding or a lack of it that causes it. Would need to be a 30/35% drop to be affordable for a lot of people now given the effects of the pandemic.

With routes a lot could be altered to be fair. Needs to be a balance of services that cover a lot of places and ones that are direct and get you from A to B much quicker. Areas like Yoker are actually done really well as there's the M11 as a local service, 1s as an express, 2 and 6 that cover the West End and give links to more of the city centre where needed.

A variation of options from one side of the city to the other 3 could certainly give people diversity in where they can go

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Pricing is a whole other mess but it's funding or a lack of it that causes it. Would need to be a 30/35% drop to be affordable for a lot of people now given the effects of the pandemic.

Have you sat down and worked the impact of such a move? Not good for business

 

[PaulMc7]

Have you sat down and worked the impact of such a move? Not good for business

I never said anything about doing it? It's realistic as to what prices need to be for some people to be able to use the bus but it's very funding dependent too which is why I think it would never happen. It's unfortunately something First can't do much about and the government and councils need to realise it quickly if they want people out of cars and onto buses.

Public transport is something that should never be a privilege and instead something everyone has good access to but sadly with the government and councils in Scotland especially in Glasgow it's a privilege

 

[Jordan Adam]

Any reduction in prices has to be made up through increased revenue, in times like this it's very unlikely you're going to get that. A fares freeze for 2021 is the best option.

 

[PaulMc7]

Another thing regarding City Centre provision I've just thought of is that the chances are that services through Glasgow City Centre are most likely to be cut for a few reasons. Shopping is more online than ever, working from home will probably be a permanent thing for a lot of city centre offices and a lot of university/college courses could realistically be kept online for a while too.

The 38 is a great example of this. Still every 15 mins instead of 10 like pre-pandemic and the 38E is only City Centre to Baillieston instead of running to Rouken Glen and even on a Sunday the 38 is every 30 mins instead of 20 and the 38B covers the Baillieston part of the 38E route.

Could be a few slight drops in frequencies to cut costs if that's a sign of anything considering how busy the 38s were capable of being pre-pandemic. That being said though certain parts of the 38 routes definitely didn't need an every 10 min service especially beyond Giffnock to Rouken Glen

 

[route101]

Yes, if you reduce frequency then its important that the service is reliable. As for frequency reductions its ok if you have more than one frequent route, when its your only route then it becomes an issue. Every 15 mins is the minimum for turn up and go. Every half hour you to plan it out hope bus turns up. Hourly is you have to plan your life out.

Not sure where in Cathcart they would terminate, they used years ago. There is a Muirend bus terminus.

 

[XAM2175]

Split cross-town routes to improve reliability and allow connections on single-journey tickets. The apparent obsession with single-seat journeys is one of the major anchors around First's neck in Glasgow.

 

[route101]

Split cross-town routes to improve reliability and allow connections on single-journey tickets. The apparent obsession with single-seat journeys is one of the major anchors around First's neck in Glasgow.

The timed transfer tickets are more a European thing, i think theres a core of passengers that out of habit pay single fares with cash.

 

[XAM2175]

... neither of which prevent the allowance of a transfer window on First's single tickets.

 

[route101]

... neither of which prevent the allowance of a transfer window on First's single tickets.

What do you mean?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Transfer tickets would be somewhat pointless as most people would be making a return journey too meaning that a day ticket is likely cheaper anyway...

 

[PaulMc7]

I think to fully split every service in the city centre you'd need an extra bus station somewhere but truthfully that's impossible with the set up of Glasgow City Centre. I also think traffic lights being out of sync with each other doesn't help too. I've tested it before where I've managed to walk down the full length of Renfield St and Union St before a bus has on multiple occasions and I used to get off a 1 at Argyle St at the Celtic shop instead of Stockwell St as it was quicker to cut through the St Enoch Centre or walk along Howard St than it was to stay on the 1.

In terms of outside of the city centre, Great Western Road is by far the worst in terms of congestion although again there's 2 reasons for it. Traffic lights don't stay green long enough to keep traffic moving and bus lanes aren't 24 hour operation.

Dumbarton Road at Scotstoun and Yoker is pretty bad at times too because people park in the bus lanes all too often especially the one beside the bus stop at Plean St because of the shops there.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Any reduction in prices has to be made up through increased revenue, in times like this it's very unlikely you're going to get that. A fares freeze for 2021 is the best option.

Exactly.

The likelihood of any fare cut is minuscule; perhaps a fare freeze but expect wider headways and routes being truncated.

 

[route101]

I think to fully split every service in the city centre you'd need an extra bus station somewhere but truthfully that's impossible with the set up of Glasgow City Centre. I also think traffic lights being out of sync with each other doesn't help too. I've tested it before where I've managed to walk down the full length of Renfield St and Union St before a bus has on multiple occasions and I used to get off a 1 at Argyle St at the Celtic shop instead of Stockwell St as it was quicker to cut through the St Enoch Centre or walk along Howard St than it was to stay on the 1.

In terms of outside of the city centre, Great Western Road is by far the worst in terms of congestion although again there's 2 reasons for it. Traffic lights don't stay green long enough to keep traffic moving and bus lanes aren't 24 hour operation.

Dumbarton Road at Scotstoun and Yoker is pretty bad at times too because people park in the bus lanes all too often especially the one beside the bus stop at Plean St because of the shops there.

Yes, once it took an hour on a 66 once to get thourgh the City Centre, was just before Xmas. Its the traffic lights through town and the merry go round route.

 

[adrock1976]

Yes, once it took an hour on a 66 once to get thourgh the City Centre, was just before Xmas. Its the traffic lights through town and the merry go round route.

Also, it could be a possibility of there being far too many traffic lights in the central area.

Whenever a set has failed at a junction, I have noticed albeit unscientifically (pre Covid) that the traffic flows more smoothly, as most road users take turns and encourages them to take greater care too when passing through the junction.

Perhaps some could be switched off - this would save some electric too and would help Glasgow City Council to fully recompense the disgraceful underpayment of female employees that they used to get away with (and also less junkets abroad for the councillors too - one of my former councillors in Springburn when I used to reside there you could never get hold of him at his local surgery session as he was either greasing palms in the City Chambers, on a day off, or on some junket abroad disguised as a "fact finding mission").

 

[Scott mac]

That's the e300on the one now starting to get colour branding

 

[JumpinTrainz]

That's the e300on the one now starting to get colour branding

Any photos? What colour?

 

[Volvodart]

The purple colour, as shown for the one on the route map.

 

[BradK2017]

Any photos? What colour?

Same as the 201 in Lanarkshire (not my photo):

First Glasgow E300 67712 at the western terminus of the 1B

A surprising find in a rather damp Helensburgh this afternoon was First Glasgow E300 67712 which has been repainted in the current livery style complete with purple front wedge. It will be interesting to see if this is in anticipation of a move elsewhere within First Glasgow or if 'the one' is...

www.flickr.com

 

[Jordan Adam]

First have now updated their website with a full library of PDF timetables, great to see as these timetables/maps are far more visually pleasing and easier to read than the auto generated ones on the "timetables" page.

Timetables and Service Information | Greater Glasgow | First Bus

Service

www.firstgroup.com

 

[route101]

Same as the 201 in Lanarkshire (not my photo):

First Glasgow E300 67712 at the western terminus of the 1B

A surprising find in a rather damp Helensburgh this afternoon was First Glasgow E300 67712 which has been repainted in the current livery style complete with purple front wedge. It will be interesting to see if this is in anticipation of a move elsewhere within First Glasgow or if 'the one' is...

www.flickr.com

Could it be a E300 that was intended for the 201 branding?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Could it be a E300 that was intended for the 201 branding?

I imagine it is for the 1 as it says Glasgow on the side of the bus instead of Lanarkshire. I’m not a fan of the colour used on the 201 but I guess it makes sense and it’s nice to see they’re finally painting Dumbarton’s E300s given they were the first of the kind to arrive in the fleet.

For some reason I always thought the 1 would have been a contender for new buses given how busy it is. Looks like they’re sticking with the E300s!

 

[route101]

I imagine it is for the 1 as it says Glasgow on the side of the bus instead of Lanarkshire. I’m not a fan of the colour used on the 201 but I guess it makes sense and it’s nice to see they’re finally painting Dumbarton’s E300s given they were the first of the kind to arrive in the fleet.

Took a long time to brand them 201s and its not finished. Yeah, only seems like yesterday when the e300s arrived.