First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

69448 was Discovering Keynsham' on the 349 today weirdly. Does anyone know why this was on the 349 today?

Probably Bath covering a Bristol duty?

Certainly someone was overly keen on bustimes (it was showing as a Lawrence Hill vehicle yesterday) but was back as a Bath vehicle. Saw it in Frome myself about 10 this morning

 

[32625]

Probably Bath covering a Bristol duty?

Certainly someone was overly keen on bustimes (it was showing as a Lawrence Hill vehicle yesterday) but was back as a Bath vehicle. Saw it in Frome myself about 10 this morning

It seems to automatically update the depot depending on the route rather than someone manually changing it

 

[-Colly405-]

Been told that the Bath based discover fleet will have a problem in a few weeks when the St Margaret’s Street Road bridge, Bradford-on-Avon is closed for 7 months (Services to Trowbridge and Warminster). There is a separate thread in infrastructure section on this complicated bridge rebuild.

Apparently they can’t easily get round the acute corner on the signed diversion from Frome Road into Junction Road except by crossing onto wrong side of the road as they utilise the long single deck Volvo Wrightbus Eclipse 2

Here is a street view of the relevant junction with its narrow traffic lanes and corner

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

Would it be possible for them to use Moluton Drive instead (already used by FromeBus 98)?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Would it be possible for them to use Moluton Drive instead (already used by FromeBus 98)?

It probably would though you'd miss out the Trowbridge Road stops. Either do that or put Streetlites on there?

 

[Citistar]

Would it be possible for them to use Moluton Drive instead (already used by FromeBus 98)?

That's what i'd go for - use Frome Road and Moulton Drive towards Trowbridge which then reduces the chances of any buses meeting in awkward places around the diversion. As long as there are relevant temporary stops around the diversion route, it won't propose that much of a disruption as those incapable of walking can still access FromeBus 98 and Libra/Faresaver 96.

 

[Snow1964]

Would it be possible for them to use Moluton Drive instead (already used by FromeBus 98)?

It probably would though you'd miss out the Trowbridge Road stops. Either do that or put Streetlites on there?

The hump back bridge over the canal on Frome Road, is lot more of a sharp hump than one on Trowbridge Road, and a double bend. I suspect (but don’t actually know) if they could make that without grounding.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The hump back bridge over the canal on Frome Road, is lot more of a sharp hump than one on Trowbridge Road, and a double bend. I suspect (but don’t actually know) if they could make that without grounding.

I know the one you mean by the Lock Inn but I think that is ok. I've seen full-size coaches heading that way in the past



On an (un)related aside, there was a road closure a few years back (Trowle Common?) and buses were sent via Wingfield and down to Bradford. Can't recall but assume they must have used Moulton Drive to get onto Trowbridge Road.

 

[wiltshirebloke]

If you relate it to when Silver Street has been closed/one-way recently, the bus did a loop all the way down to Springfield and back up to Christchurch to pick up most of the missing stops. Perhaps similar will be adopted ie Moulton Drive and then turning left down to at least Poulton, but then you'd have to find a suitable U turn place to head back to Trowbridge. That way you'd only miss out Southville Gardens and Junction Road (Texaco) stops.

 

[Redmike]

Can someone in the know help me with the Bath to Wells routes please? A few years ago it seemed to be 100% Wells operated but now there seem to be more Bath City branded buses. What is the split between the 2 depots?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Can someone in the know help me with the Bath to Wells routes please? A few years ago it seemed to be 100% Wells operated but now there seem to be more Bath City branded buses. What is the split between the 2 depots?

There's a bit of a mish-mash.

You are right in that pre-Covid, the entire 171-4 group were operated by Wells depot, running into Bath, doing a Paulton run and then back to Bath before returning to Wells.

Nowadays, you have a mix of both Wells depot and Bath depot so probably 2/3 Wells and 1/3 Bath (roughly). However, that is then further confused with about 3 Bath depot vehicles on loan to Wells depot to cover for VORs.

IMHO, the standard of promotion and marketing on the Mendip Explorer routes has slipped very badly over the last few years. The 376 was a flagship route - less so now.

 

[Redmike]

There's a bit of a mish-mash.

You are right in that pre-Covid, the entire 171-4 group were operated by Wells depot, running into Bath, doing a Paulton run and then back to Bath before returning to Wells.

Nowadays, you have a mix of both Wells depot and Bath depot so probably 2/3 Wells and 1/3 Bath (roughly). However, that is then further confused with about 3 Bath depot vehicles on loan to Wells depot to cover for VORs.

IMHO, the standard of promotion and marketing on the Mendip Explorer routes has slipped very badly over the last few years. The 376 was a flagship route - less so now.

Thanks for that summary.

 

[Snow1964]

On Tuesday (sorry forgot to post at the time), was a blue Bath City short Enviro200 on the Winsley shuttle

This is a temporary route via Limpley Stoke, because the road between Winsley and Bradford-on-Avon is closed for 6 weeks to construct a cycle Lane, meaning the D1 (to Trowbridge and Warminster) is diverted

Link is to timetable of the 2 temporary routes

https://www.winsley.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Winsley-Bus-Changes-July-2022.pdf

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/sites/default/files/public/maps/D1-265_Bath-TempService-WEB.pdf

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

On Tuesday (sorry forgot to post at the time), was a blue Bath City short Enviro200 on the Winsley shuttle

This is a temporary route via Limpley Stoke, because the road between Winsley and Bradford-on-Avon is closed for 6 weeks to construct a cycle Lane, meaning the D1 (to Trowbridge and Warminster) is diverted

Link is to timetable of the 2 temporary routes

https://www.winsley.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Winsley-Bus-Changes-July-2022.pdf

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/sites/default/files/public/maps/D1-265_Bath-TempService-WEB.pdf

I did see this an e200 with Winsley Shuttle whilst driving along the A36 near Claverton. Wondered what it was!

 

[Class 33]

Anyone ever had problems trying to purchase Bristol Rider tickets on First buses and the drivers saying there's no such tickets or taking ages to find them on their ticket machines? Happened to me a few(or more) times a few months back. Getting on the bus asking for a weeks Bristol Rider. Then they usually give me a First Week ticket instead, and I have to say "That's not a Bristol Rider ticket.". Then them usually taking a few minutes to find a weeks Bristol Rider ticket on their ticket machine and delaying the bus much to the annoyance of some of the watching passengers! Since then though I didn't have any problems.... until today. When I get on the bus and ...... well to cut the story short a bit, the driver says "There's no such thing as a weeks Bristol Rider ticket". I said "There is, as I've brought loads of them before" and even showed him a copy of my previous weeks Bristol Rider ticket that ran out yesterday. But no, he looked again on his ticket machine and said "No, a weeks Bristol Rider ticket is not on my machine. So I can't print one for you."!!! I had to then give up and just get a single ticket instead. It's a nuisance when this happens. I don't know if it's a case that the ticket machines have recently been updated and Bristol Rider tickets haven't been programmed into them. Or it's a case that a number of drivers have no experience and haven't been briefed properly on how to select and print Bristol Rider tickets! It would also help and save a lot of possible fuss and hassle if you could purchase these tickets on the First Bus app, or be able to purchase and print these tickets out on the First Bus website!

 

[Citistar]

On Tuesday (sorry forgot to post at the time), was a blue Bath City short Enviro200 on the Winsley shuttle

This is a temporary route via Limpley Stoke, because the road between Winsley and Bradford-on-Avon is closed for 6 weeks to construct a cycle Lane, meaning the D1 (to Trowbridge and Warminster) is diverted

Link is to timetable of the 2 temporary routes

https://www.winsley.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Winsley-Bus-Changes-July-2022.pdf

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/sites/default/files/public/maps/D1-265_Bath-TempService-WEB.pdf

Heavens above, what an awful way to display a timetable! The 24 and D1 are actually timed to connect at Warminster, but First's timetable shows them as missing connections because they've put the connection point on journeys towards Bath in the wrong place (before the Boreham loop rather than after). Doesn't anybody proof read this material before it is issued?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Heavens above, what an awful way to display a timetable! The 24 and D1 are actually timed to connect at Warminster, but First's timetable shows them as missing connections because they've put the connection point on journeys towards Bath in the wrong place (before the Boreham loop rather than after). Doesn't anybody proof read this material before it is issued?

You're right - that is terrible.

Have to say - the Claringbold era is not exactly impressing

 

[ATW158Xpress]

Has anyone used the new tap on, tap off system and anyone having teething problems with 2 trip fares and charging you 2 singles fares instead of 2 trip fare?

 

[Snow1964]

Heavens above, what an awful way to display a timetable! The 24 and D1 are actually timed to connect at Warminster, but First's timetable shows them as missing connections because they've put the connection point on journeys towards Bath in the wrong place (before the Boreham loop rather than after). Doesn't anybody proof read this material before it is issued?

I also wondered why a 6 week temporary time covering July and August needed references to Christmas, Boxing Day and New Years Day on the Sunday tables.

Being pedantic the map on the last page excludes the northbound section via Junction Road and Frome Road in Bradford on Avon

 

[Citistar]

Anyone ever had problems trying to purchase Bristol Rider tickets on First buses and the drivers saying there's no such tickets or taking ages to find them on their ticket machines? Happened to me a few(or more) times a few months back. Getting on the bus asking for a weeks Bristol Rider. Then they usually give me a First Week ticket instead, and I have to say "That's not a Bristol Rider ticket.". Then them usually taking a few minutes to find a weeks Bristol Rider ticket on their ticket machine and delaying the bus much to the annoyance of some of the watching passengers! Since then though I didn't have any problems.... until today. When I get on the bus and ...... well to cut the story short a bit, the driver says "There's no such thing as a weeks Bristol Rider ticket". I said "There is, as I've brought loads of them before" and even showed him a copy of my previous weeks Bristol Rider ticket that ran out yesterday. But no, he looked again on his ticket machine and said "No, a weeks Bristol Rider ticket is not on my machine. So I can't print one for you."!!! I had to then give up and just get a single ticket instead. It's a nuisance when this happens. I don't know if it's a case that the ticket machines have recently been updated and Bristol Rider tickets haven't been programmed into them. Or it's a case that a number of drivers have no experience and haven't been briefed properly on how to select and print Bristol Rider tickets! It would also help and save a lot of possible fuss and hassle if you could purchase these tickets on the First Bus app, or be able to purchase and print these tickets out on the First Bus website!

The prospect of Rider tickets on some or anybody's mobile app has been on the agenda for about six years now, since First's own app became widely adopted. There seems to be absolutely no will from any operator who has their own ticketing app to make it happen. I've personally spent the last eight to ten years saying we need to make ticketing simpler, but nobody seems interested in listening. The latest proposals from Avon and North Somerset under the Enhanced Partnership set out a whole host of additional Rider products which will be introduced alongside single operator offerings which there also seems to strategy to phase out. Apparently Tap on, Tap off solves everything. It's an utterly hopeless situation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The prospect of Rider tickets on some or anybody's mobile app has been on the agenda for about six years now, since First's own app became widely adopted. There seems to be absolutely no will from any operator who has their own ticketing app to make it happen. I've personally spent the last eight to ten years saying we need to make ticketing simpler, but nobody seems interested in listening. The latest proposals from Avon and North Somerset under the Enhanced Partnership set out a whole host of additional Rider products which will be introduced alongside single operator offerings which there also seems to strategy to phase out. Apparently Tap on, Tap off solves everything. It's an utterly hopeless situation.

Well, to answer @Class 33 's original point, I've never had any issue with drivers issuing an Avon or Bristol Rider. The only issue has been acceptance e.g. when a Severnside driver (so that dates it) queried it as a "First ticket" until I explained what it was. I have experienced a similar "can't find it" problem with other more obscure tickets in the past (like the Worcestershire Connecta) but not the Avon ones; it's an individual driver issue, I suspect, but is that the driver or the training THEY received... who knows?

The reality is that First doesn't engage in any meaningful publicity for these tickets as they clearly wish to sell their own day tickets and retain the revenue. There's been the "reason" that they can't skew competition by removing their own single operator tickets but you can clearly "soft pedal" the marketing of those and actively promote the multi-operator option. It's been a pet hate of mine for years. The only operator that I can recall publicising it was Abus.

I don't believe there's any technical reason why a mobile Bristol Rider cannot be produced.

 

[RELL6L]

Heavens above, what an awful way to display a timetable! The 24 and D1 are actually timed to connect at Warminster, but First's timetable shows them as missing connections because they've put the connection point on journeys towards Bath in the wrong place (before the Boreham loop rather than after). Doesn't anybody proof read this material before it is issued?

That is absolutely terrible! How to lose passengers....! https://www.firstbus.co.uk/sites/default/files/public/maps/D1-265_Bath-TempService-WEB.pdf
Clearly put together by someone who doesn't realise that Warminster Market Place and Warminster Market Place are the same place!

 

[Private Baxter]

According to some local media sites, First are planning on cutting the 173. I haven't seen anything official, so is there any truth to this? Or is it more a case of simply rerouting it to avoid places like Binegar? I'd be very surprised (and sad) to see it go.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

According to some local media sites, First are planning on cutting the 173. I haven't seen anything official, so is there any truth to this? Or is it more a case of simply rerouting it to avoid places like Binegar? I'd be very surprised (and sad) to see it go.

It was reported in the Bath Echo and given they have quotes from him, I suspect it is probably correct. I wonder if the Norton Radstock services will go to every 20 mins with a 174, and then 172 to Paulton only and cut the Farrington loop?

The 42 isn't a great surprise - it was supported when it was a Wessex service. The one thing that gets me was that they elected to close the Westbury outstation (which I think was a decision made just before the first lockdown) but you wonder if they had retained it, would that have relieved some of the pressure on Bath depot to find drivers for the Discover routes?

That said and I've mentioned the other day, I haven't seen much of the Claringbold era to suggest he's doing much to arrest decline aside from a glossy TV advert.

Bus companies have announced they plan to cut services including the 42 (Odd Down Park and Ride to RUH), 171 (Bath City Centre to Paulton), 173 (Bath City Centre to Wells) and 178 (Midsomer Norton to Bristol) in October.

There is also a proposed route change to the 172. First West of England has also declined to run the 11 and 12 supported services.

The majority of bus services in Bath and North East Somerset are run commercially, with the remainder fully or partly subsidised by the West of England Combined Authority.

Of the 87 ‘supported’ bus services in the region, only 36% will run past October without any conditions and eleven routes will be cancelled.

This is despite the Metro Mayor Dan Norris offering to continue to subside these services.

On top of the shortage of drivers, and the upcoming end of funding decision, there are also fewer passengers, around 75 per cent of pre-Covid numbers, and costs to run the buses have risen.

Mr Norris said: “I am sorry that people in Bath and NE Somerset will feel these cuts in October, when private bus companies withdraw their services on the less profitable routes.

“My heart goes out to people who will lose buses which I know are so important for getting to work, seeing family and caring for others.

“I have warned repeatedly there will be bus cuts in the autumn, and now sadly we are seeing these fears realised.

“We all know the issues – government support ends in October, but passenger numbers are still not back to where they were pre-pandemic, and the inflationary costs of running services is rocketing. And the huge, huge problem is there are not enough bus drivers.

“When it comes to funding, I will always step in to save vital buses where I can, but there isn’t an unlimited pot of cash and even if there was, I can’t magic up drivers.

“Over the next weeks and throughout August I will work with local communities and bus companies large and small to see where we might be able to step in, if other providers might take on different routes, or if we can come up with different innovative solutions.

“There are trade-offs and compromises to make but I know local people will have some great ideas about how to use drivers most effectively, which is why I will be engaging with as many people as possible to make this the least painful it can be.

“While this is a difficult time, I urge everyone to use the buses that are running because every journey you make creates a virtuous circle of more fare income and so better buses. Plus, it’s so very vital for our net zero targets.

“There is also hope on the horizon. The Combined Authority I lead is supporting bus driver recruitment and training and the new money I’ve won for buses will kick in next year. So hang in there!”

 

[Private Baxter]

It was reported in the Bath Echo and given they have quotes from him, I suspect it is probably correct. I wonder if the Norton Radstock services will go to every 20 mins with a 174, and then 172 to Paulton only and cut the Farrington loop?

The 42 isn't a great surprise - it was supported when it was a Wessex service. The one thing that gets me was that they elected to close the Westbury outstation (which I think was a decision made just before the first lockdown) but you wonder if they had retained it, would that have relieved some of the pressure on Bath depot to find drivers for the Discover routes?

That said and I've mentioned the other day, I haven't seen much of the Claringbold era to suggest he's doing much to arrest decline aside from a glossy TV advert.

Thanks for sharing. Will be sad if the 173 goes, but despite enhancements in recent years, I guess there is only room for one Bath to Wells service, and I suppose the 174 via Shepton is the preferred option. We will hope for the best.

 

[317 forever]

Anyone ever had problems trying to purchase Bristol Rider tickets on First buses and the drivers saying there's no such tickets or taking ages to find them on their ticket machines? Happened to me a few(or more) times a few months back. Getting on the bus asking for a weeks Bristol Rider. Then they usually give me a First Week ticket instead, and I have to say "That's not a Bristol Rider ticket.". Then them usually taking a few minutes to find a weeks Bristol Rider ticket on their ticket machine and delaying the bus much to the annoyance of some of the watching passengers! Since then though I didn't have any problems.... until today. When I get on the bus and ...... well to cut the story short a bit, the driver says "There's no such thing as a weeks Bristol Rider ticket". I said "There is, as I've brought loads of them before" and even showed him a copy of my previous weeks Bristol Rider ticket that ran out yesterday. But no, he looked again on his ticket machine and said "No, a weeks Bristol Rider ticket is not on my machine. So I can't print one for you."!!! I had to then give up and just get a single ticket instead. It's a nuisance when this happens. I don't know if it's a case that the ticket machines have recently been updated and Bristol Rider tickets haven't been programmed into them. Or it's a case that a number of drivers have no experience and haven't been briefed properly on how to select and print Bristol Rider tickets! It would also help and save a lot of possible fuss and hassle if you could purchase these tickets on the First Bus app, or be able to purchase and print these tickets out on the First Bus website!

When I had a day out on buses in Bristol in 2020, the price seemed the same as a FirstDay ticket. I therefore made a point of requesting a "Bristol Rider for all companies' buses please"

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Thanks for sharing. Will be sad if the 173 goes, but despite enhancements in recent years, I guess there is only room for one Bath to Wells service, and I suppose the 174 via Shepton is the preferred option. We will hope for the best.

No worries - good to see you back.

There are a few people who used to be regular contributors to this thread (@freetoview33, @CD, Henairs) who we don't see much of these days.

 

[DaveHarries]

I would be surprised if the 173 goes entirely: I think that has to be one of the longest running routes? I recently used a 173 from Wells to Radstock and it was quite well loaded with not all of the passengers being pass holders. I realiser that is not the case all the time though.

Dave

 

[Private Baxter]

No worries - good to see you back.

There are a few people who used to be regular contributors to this thread (@freetoview33, @CD, Henairs) who we don't see much of these days.

Thanks. I've not been too far away, rather we appear to be living through a quiet period in bus history! And sadly there doesn't seem to be much positive news to report, other than Weston's recent streetdecks.

I would be surprised if the 173 goes entirely: I think that has to be one of the longest running routes? I recently used a 173 from Wells to Radstock and it was quite well loaded with not all of the passengers being pass holders. I realiser that is not the case all the time though.

Dave

I think it has been going since the 60s, and long before my time. And though I have no reason to use it any more, it is a route I have used many, many times since the 90s, and even my most recent experience the journey was busy, even on the south section.

 

[RELL6L]

Quote from @TheGrandWazoo post 30,143 above:
Of the 87 ‘supported’ bus services in the region, only 36% will run past October without any conditions and eleven routes will be cancelled.

Do we know any more detail of these? I presume this is the whole Travelwest region?

 

[Citistar]

Quote from @TheGrandWazoo post 30,143 above:
Of the 87 ‘supported’ bus services in the region, only 36% will run past October without any conditions and eleven routes will be cancelled.

Do we know any more detail of these? I presume this is the whole Travelwest region?

I believe the translation of this is that only 36% of existing contracts were accpted by the operators to be extended until next Easter at the same price as they're currently operating. There were renewals of contracts previously issued by Bristol, Bath & NE Somerset and South Glos Councils included in the tendering, it doesn't cover North Somerset as they still perform their own tendering.