First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[-Colly405-]

Have the EPR routes been withdrawn completely, or just for the school holidays? I thought they were run off the back of school bus contracts, presumably to claim Bus Service Operators Grant.

Cancelled wef 27/6/22, which was in the middle of term, so I'm assuming withdrawn completely.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Cancelled wef 27/6/22, which was in the middle of term, so I'm assuming withdrawn completely.

OK, thanks. I was going by bustimes.org, which gives an effective date of 24 July.

 

[Buses in Bath]

Cancelled wef 27/6/22, which was in the middle of term, so I'm assuming withdrawn completely.

Strange. It last ran on the 28th (and I painfully finally got round to trying it out on the 30th which was a nice 30 min wait at Cabbot when it didnt turn up)

 

[NorthernSpirit]

First are clearly juggling things to avoid having to employ so many agency and external staff for the new University terms. 172 appears to be moving back towards Wells, which suggests they are taking over the Midsomer Norton - Bath corridor in order to free up Bath drivers to pound up and down Bathwick Hill. Trying to explain to a passenger in Locking that they're losing their service to Weston in order to provide buses to Bath University might be a difficult one though.

Sunday D2 has always been a reasonable proposal for commercial operation, ever since it stopped being the Bath &NE Somt sponsored 767. I seem to recall that upon retendering one year, the revenue figures were published and at least two operators said they'd do it commercially. As one of those was First, they kept it. It could really do with Faresaver back on the X67 to kick their arse back in to behaving like a commercial entity rather than this excrutiating managed decline they seem intent upon.

It's making me wonder if Faresaver will reintroduce the X67 but only on Sunday's and public holidays if enough people contact them. Didn't the 267 (as it was) have some user group advocating that the 267 was Frome's only evening bus service? What ever happened to them?

I know of someone who lives in Frome and she said to me that the buses can be a bit unpredictable and should the evening bus service go it'd make it quite hard for townsfolk to get back home.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Presumably if the 126 could be saved by becoming a supported service it would involve Somerset County Council (SCC) as well as North Somerset Council as so much of the route runs through SCC territory?

If CT Coaches have enough service buses could they be the prime candidate on taking on the 126 from First? As they're only based in Radstock it wouldn't too much dead mileage unless they wanted to run the first and last journey's in service to Radstock.

 

[davetheguard]

The bus stop they are suggesting you get off at is Church Street and then it would be a 20 min walk to the brewery on a pedestrian footpath.
There is a closer stop called Katona Stone coming from Wells or Calcott Farm coming from Weston and this would be a 6 min walk but there is no pavement so you would have to walk in the road.

Just thought I'd report back that we successfully made it to the Cheddar Ales taproom.

Walking along that narrow A road without any sort of pavement or verge was not something we wanted to do, so we took your advice and got off the bus in Cheddar itself and walked along the old railway line which is now a national cycle path.

Quite a few industrial units surround the brewery; still seems rather odd that there's not a bus stop on the main road there.

 

[-Colly405-]

Having a chat with a work colleague who says he and his wife share mTickets by having her account on a spare phone that he uses if she doesn't need it any particular day
Wouldn't that be picked up with the customer name on the Ticket screen, or Mr/Ms etc. being obviously the wrong gender for the passenger?
Or does Ticketer not work like that?

 

[stevenedin]

Having a chat with a work colleague who says he and his wife share mTickets by having her account on a spare phone that he uses if she doesn't need it any particular day
Wouldn't that be picked up with the customer name on the Ticket screen, or Mr/Ms etc. being obviously the wrong gender for the passenger?
Or does Ticketer not work like that?

I think that it is just a barcode scanned and no picture although I’ve only had the day tickets and not anything longer than that.

 

[Citistar]

It's making me wonder if Faresaver will reintroduce the X67 but only on Sunday's and public holidays if enough people contact them. Didn't the 267 (as it was) have some user group advocating that the 267 was Frome's only evening bus service? What ever happened to them?

I know of someone who lives in Frome and she said to me that the buses can be a bit unpredictable and should the evening bus service go it'd make it quite hard for townsfolk to get back home.

That would be the still vocal Rode group which has now become part of the Somerset Catch the Bus Campaign. They're very active on Facebook.

I don't think the evening Frome services are any less reliable that any of First's other evening services out of Bath.

If CT Coaches have enough service buses could they be the prime candidate on taking on the 126 from First? As they're only based in Radstock it wouldn't too much dead mileage unless they wanted to run the first and last journey's in service to Radstock.

CT don't have much of a track record of doing things commercially, so i'd expect it to be a tender. Somerset don't seem keen on tendering things, the most lucrative of them seem to end up appearing being operated by their in house S22 operation without being tendered, as happened with the 68 in Yeovil, service 3 in Taunton and is happening with Frome Bus' 30 town service at the end of the month. The Council themselves are quietly building quite the empire at the expense of local businesses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's making me wonder if Faresaver will reintroduce the X67 but only on Sunday's and public holidays if enough people contact them. Didn't the 267 (as it was) have some user group advocating that the 267 was Frome's only evening bus service? What ever happened to them?

I know of someone who lives in Frome and she said to me that the buses can be a bit unpredictable and should the evening bus service go it'd make it quite hard for townsfolk to get back home.

Never seen a problem with the D2 particularly.

It is Frome and Villages Bus Users Group http://favbug.blogspot.com/

If CT Coaches have enough service buses could they be the prime candidate on taking on the 126 from First? As they're only based in Radstock it wouldn't too much dead mileage unless they wanted to run the first and last journey's in service to Radstock.

Are you on the good stuff?

CT Coaches run a few minis on tendered work for BaNES (1 on the 179, 1 on the 768, 1 on the city routes 700 etc, and 1 off peak on the old Somerbus once a week routes) plus a few coaches on schools. I'd put Frome Bus or Libra ahead of them in terms of size, scale and skills. That said, even Frome Bus had to drop the Frome town service as they couldn't cover it the other day.

I'd expect First to get a bit of cash for keeping it going to be honest

 

[Citistar]

I'd expect First to get a bit of cash for keeping it going to be honest

But therein lies the problem. First are getting rid of as much work as possible to try and cover their own university work this autumn. I understand there will be a substantial movement of work from Bath and MH to Wells depot, including pretty much every First route through Norton Radstock. I also understand that First have rejected the proposed extension of several local authority contracts, predominantly the botched West of England Combined Authority tenders which were due to take effect from September, but were intended to be extended to Easter '23 as an interim measure.

First know what work they can resource and want to be undertaking from October and it leaves the tendering authorities with very few other choices as they've done a good job of alienating the majority of smaller operators over recent years. The only one that seems willing to keep taking work on is Eurotaxis and whilst they appear to currently be keen on spending money on vehicles, their previous forays in to tendered work have not ended well.

In terms of 126, I don't think FromeBus are in an expansion mode as they are hugely struggling to recruit drivers out there. Libra is a possibility, but i would struggle to see them wanting to take more than one bus working on. There is simply nobody else left at the Weston end of the route. I personally think the most likely result will be Somerset's in house operation taking it on in some form, but a 13 seat VW Mellor ain't gonna be much use on that route!

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

I also understand that First have rejected the proposed extension of several local authority contracts, predominantly the botched West of England Combined Authority tenders which were due to take effect from September, but were intended to be extended to Easter '23 as an interim measure.

Primarily because WECA (West of England Combined Authority) baulked at how much the tenders were due to cost!

 

[Whiteway215]

In a BBC Radio Bristol broadcast on Monday morning with Dan Norris, the West of England Combined Authority Mayor, it was quoted that this coming Friday the public will learn the extent of the First West of England service cuts coming in October.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

But therein lies the problem. First are getting rid of as much work as possible to try and cover their own university work this autumn. I understand there will be a substantial movement of work from Bath and MH to Wells depot, including pretty much every First route through Norton Radstock. I also understand that First have rejected the proposed extension of several local authority contracts, predominantly the botched West of England Combined Authority tenders which were due to take effect from September, but were intended to be extended to Easter '23 as an interim measure.

First know what work they can resource and want to be undertaking from October and it leaves the tendering authorities with very few other choices as they've done a good job of alienating the majority of smaller operators over recent years. The only one that seems willing to keep taking work on is Eurotaxis and whilst they appear to currently be keen on spending money on vehicles, their previous forays in to tendered work have not ended well.

In terms of 126, I don't think FromeBus are in an expansion mode as they are hugely struggling to recruit drivers out there. Libra is a possibility, but i would struggle to see them wanting to take more than one bus working on. There is simply nobody else left at the Weston end of the route. I personally think the most likely result will be Somerset's in house operation taking it on in some form, but a 13 seat VW Mellor ain't gonna be much use on that route!

Looking at the timetable for the 126. The way I've looked at it, its possible to run it as an every 90 minute service with two vehicles - it just wouldn't be able to interwork with anything else but it does at least keep the service going.

I don't think Buses Of Somerset / First Somerset would take it on considering that they'd have to come from Taunton?

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

In a BBC Radio Bristol broadcast on Monday morning with Dan Norris, the West of England Combined Authority Mayor, it was quoted that this coming Friday the public will learn the extent of the First West of England service cuts coming in October.

Grand.
I’ve been biting my tongue as it is, knowing what’s coming!

 

[Citistar]

Primarily because WECA (West of England Combined Authority) baulked at how much the tenders were due to cost!

Then perhaps the authority should have listened to warnings given by previous contractors. Their contract conditions and requirements, along with the continued efforts by them and North Somerset to exclude any provider who isn't a national PLC have delivered them the results they wanted, but now can't afford. What a shame.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Then perhaps the authority should have listened to warnings given by previous contractors. Their contract conditions and requirements, along with the continued efforts by them and North Somerset to exclude any provider who isn't a national PLC have delivered them the results they wanted, but now can't afford. What a shame.

I would speak to the TC, as there’s a decision about to happen in regards to Stagecoach West dropping too many trips on tendered routes - and obviously this could’ve been helped if smaller operators like yours, Andy would've been allowed to help, or given the tender instead.

 

[Private Baxter]

But therein lies the problem. First are getting rid of as much work as possible to try and cover their own university work this autumn. I understand there will be a substantial movement of work from Bath and MH to Wells depot, including pretty much every First route through Norton Radstock. I also understand that First have rejected the proposed extension of several local authority contracts, predominantly the botched West of England Combined Authority tenders which were due to take effect from September, but were intended to be extended to Easter '23 as an interim measure.

So Wells picking up the 172 and 178, and maybe more? Perhaps the 178 will be extended to Wells.

Looking at the timetable for the 126. The way I've looked at it, its possible to run it as an every 90 minute service with two vehicles - it just wouldn't be able to interwork with anything else but it does at least keep the service going.

I don't think Buses Of Somerset / First Somerset would take it on considering that they'd have to come from Taunton?

I think many would happily accept a 90 minute frequency, rather than lose it. A few rural routes have had to do that in recent years. Look at the 377.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So Wells picking up the 172 and 178, and maybe more? Perhaps the 178 will be extended to Wells.

I think @Citistar is suggesting the Bath to Radstock corridor moving (as it was nearly 100% Wells before Covid). Wonder if the 178 will survive? I can see it going with some lukewarm tendered service running from Norton to Keynsham, one Solo running every two hours but I am a pessimist!

 

[Citistar]

I think @Citistar is suggesting the Bath to Radstock corridor moving (as it was nearly 100% Wells before Covid). Wonder if the 178 will survive? I can see it going with some lukewarm tendered service running from Norton to Keynsham, one Solo running every two hours but I am a pessimist!

I'm not sure i should pre-empt Saint Dan's big Friday announcement, but my information suggests 178 is being replaced by yet another resurrection of the 177/379 route via the A37 in to Bristol (possibly extended back to Bath as a replacement to 171). The current 178 route is supposedly one of the West of England Combined Authority's project services and is slated for a Brislington Park & Ride to Odd Down Park & Ride service, but that will only happen once the money arrives from the DfT (and when a compliant operator is found to operate it). Of course, this is all highly fluid and something else may have been agreed in the interim, or may subsequently be agreed.

 

[Snow1964]

I know First WoE don’t really care about passengers these days, but how do you get them to fix a broken countdown destination display at a bus stop.

The display at Bradford-on-Avon station stop, towards Bath (which is not some little used obscure location) has been out of service for over a year, and my sending a message to customer services months ago hasn’t resulted in any action (or do they have few months backlog of reading messages)

 

[stevenedin]

I know First WoE don’t really care about passengers these days, but how do you get them to fix a broken countdown destination display at a bus stop.

The display at Bradford-on-Avon station stop, towards Bath (which is not some little used obscure location) has been out of service for over a year, and my sending a message to customer services months ago hasn’t resulted in any action (or do they have few months backlog of reading messages)

Are these not managed by the Council?

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Are these not managed by the Council?

Yes, nothing to do with First.
I’ll pass a message on.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I know First WoE don’t really care about passengers these days, but how do you get them to fix a broken countdown destination display at a bus stop.

The display at Bradford-on-Avon station stop, towards Bath (which is not some little used obscure location) has been out of service for over a year, and my sending a message to customer services months ago hasn’t resulted in any action (or do they have few months backlog of reading messages)

You need to take it up with Wiltshire Council's passenger transport unit - their number is 01225 718080.

 

[Snow1964]

You need to take it up with Wiltshire Council's passenger transport unit - their number is 01225 718080.

Thank-you

 

[DaveHarries]

So Wells picking up the 172 and 178, and maybe more? Perhaps the 178 will be extended to Wells.

Could be done. Either that or someone will come up with a way of interlinking it with another route perhaps. One side to this though is what is the vehicle capacity of Wells depot?

I'm not sure i should pre-empt Saint Dan's big Friday announcement, but my information suggests 178 is being replaced by yet another resurrection of the 177/379 route via the A37 in to Bristol (possibly extended back to Bath as a replacement to 171). The current 178 route is supposedly one of the West of England Combined Authority's project services and is slated for a Brislington Park & Ride to Odd Down Park & Ride service, but that will only happen once the money arrives from the DfT (and when a compliant operator is found to operate it). Of course, this is all highly fluid and something else may have been agreed in the interim, or may subsequently be agreed.

Linking two P&R is perhaps hardly an ideal way to run the 178. As for the idea of a route via the A37 that might also be a waste of time given that the A37 is already well served by the 376.

Grand.
I’ve been biting my tongue as it is, knowing what’s coming!

Hmm. For my part I can see the X5 not surviving as most of the trips I see appear to be fairly, if not totally, empty while the X4 seems to be doing quite well. Rumours abound of substantial changes around Yate which is not somewhere I normally travel through by bus. The 13 hasn't been doing well for a while since the route was lengthened to incorporate Southmead Hospital. I live in Bristol though with my local routes being the 3 & 4 although I hardly use them as they are not convenient for getting to / from work: the train (Sea Mills) is my preferred commute.

I think the loss of the 126 would be both unwise and regrettable as that would leave certain places (ie. Cheddar and Axbridge) with nothing and I think that many of the changes are likely to go down like a very large lead balloon: given that efforts are (supposedly) being made to try and persuade people to give up using cars for commuting these changes are likely to be a big step in the wrong direction.

Dave

 

[matt_splat]

I would expect what will happen is 376 379 and one of 173 or 174 will work in a cycle

 

[Dai Corner]

Followers of this thread might be interested in this meeting at 1930 today (17 Aug) organised by Portishead Town Council.

Residents follow up meeting to discuss changes to bus service in Portishead

Residents follow up meeting to discuss changes to bus service in Portishead

www.portishead.gov.uk

Residents follow up meeting to discuss changes to bus service in PortisheadEvent - 17 August 2022
Wednesday 17 August 2022 at 7.30pm. The Folk Hall, High Street, Portishead.
Including representatives from First Bus, North Somerset Council and Stagecoach.
Places are limited, so please book your seat.
Email: [email protected] or Call: 01275 847 078
To join the meeting online via zoom please use this link: https://bit.ly/3Ov7fw2
Meeting ID: 882 9943 2388
Passcode: 902150
Dial in by phone: 0203 901 7895 United Kingdom (National call rate)

​

 

[Revilo]

Facebook update from North Somerset Council on the X5, X2 and 126:

“The good news is that the X5 bus service will continue.

The bad news is that we haven't been able to find a solution to help passengers who use the X2 and 126. This due to the significant shortage of drivers.

After extensive negotiations, we've reached an agreement with commercial bus company First West of England to continue a reduced X5 bus service until April 2023.

From Monday 10 October 2022, the X5 will run every hour between Worle and Portishead High Street between 6.30am and 6.30pm. From Portishead, the service will run every hour between 7.15am and 7.15pm.

Passengers wishing to travel onward into Weston-super-Mare town centre will then need to change buses at Worle using one of four services (X1 / 3 / 7 / 50). A connection to Bristol can be made using the X4 service, and to Nailsea using one of two services (57 / 59).

The council is in talks with the Department for Transport to agree some temporary flexibility in funding to enable it to award First £52,550. This is equal to a quarter of the overall running costs, the amount needed to operate a reduced X5 service between October and April.

Driver shortages are at the heart of this issue here in North Somerset. We’re in discussions with local training providers to devise campaigns to increase the number of bus drivers. Anyone considering this as a career is encouraged to step forward and contact their local college.”

 

[Whiteway215]

A rather sad news item on Somersetlive.co.uk website entitled ‘Mum fears children will be stranded’.
Parents with children at Ralph Allen School, Bath have received a letter from the school stating that First have informed the school service 22 and 20c will no longer run. Service 20s will continue.

Abus R2 and R3 will continue to serve the school with some rerouting.

The letter also states the University of Bath will no longer have a service from the Odd Down direction.