Intercity Fridays Only to/from Euston

[xotGD]

What's next? (The aptly named) WCRC operating a Holyhead shuttle?!?

Well they did previously provide a shuttle on the Windermere branch when Northern couldn't offer a service. And that was free!

 

[fgwrich]

Those vehicles look like Mk2E/Fs.
So rather elderly transport, on London-Birmingham BR circa 1995?

They are Mk3s.

Indeed, a rake of predominantly Mk3 First Opens + Mini RFMs (which ironically are ex West Coast then GEML) and were fully refurbished in their latter years by Greater Anglia - not LSL as they were initially proclaiming to be, who just stuck on new antimacassars and pretty pictures on the end walls.

 

[Howardh]

As far as strikes go, this isn't running on a strike day so it's not undermining the strikers. As far as Avaniti goes, they aren't on strike other than official strike days. They are simply (as I see it) working to contract.

My thoughts are - if another company (which is what it is) is allowed to run a train along a line in competition with Avanti (remember there's no competition on the Manchester-London line as it stands) then why can't another TOC do so permanently?

if it's a case of there isn't the capacity on the WCML, then it's because Avanti are taking up a lot of that capacity, remove those "slots" off them and let someone else run that service properly? Thinking allow a company to run a "firts class" train teo or three times daily as inter-city do once a week?

 

[43096]

I think we are getting into technicalities here. It has been called the Scabex because some, probably rightly, think that the motivation behind this train is entirely political

If it is a ‘scabex’ then that means Avanti staff are taking industrial action by not working rest days, which would mean Avanti’s comments about industrial action are correct.

 

[Bald Rick]

Seems to be a fine line between a charter and an open access service then...

This is right in the middle of quite a wide blurred line.

As a charter, tickets are not available through the national fares system (they are for Open Access), interavailable tickets are not valid on the service (they are for OA) and the train is not in the public timetable (OA are).

If the reports of passengers numbers in single digits are correct, the promoters of the service will have lost a few thousand pounds yesterday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it is a ‘scabex’ then that means Avanti staff are taking industrial action by not working rest days, which would mean Avanti’s comments about industrial action are correct.

Yes, my exact point. I suspect the correct answer is that it is indeed not industrial action and so the term "scabex" is just a childish insult, but it would be amusing to see this backfire on anyone using that term in public who has also pushed against Avanti's management's gobbing-off.

 

[geoffk]

It is definitely £75 one way.

Does the Senior Railcard discount apply? Not that I will be using it, living now in Devon.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does the Senior Railcard discount apply? Not that I will be using it, living now in Devon.

No, it is a charter. £75 a head, whoever they are.

It is definitely £75 one way.

£150 both ways then? I thought it was being sold as a day out charter which would mean £75 for the whole thing, but with the expectation that hardly anyone would bother with the badly timed non stop outward, which is basically an in service ECS which is in service so it can count as a day out charter.

Yep, just checked their website, £75 single.

Not cheap, but if I wasn't still in the throes of the bat flu I would consider taking my work laptop and spending the day working on it. Those old GA Mk3 FOs are nice and I would clearly get a table for 4 to myself. Might think about doing it next week or the week after.

 

[Howardh]

This is right in the middle of quite a wide blurred line.

As a charter, tickets are not available through the national fares system (they are for Open Access), interavailable tickets are not valid on the service (they are for OA) and the train is not in the public timetable (OA are).

If the reports of passengers numbers in single digits are correct, the promoters of the service will have lost a few thousand pounds yesterday.

Should get that back due to the publicity in the papers, I believe the Guardian and Independent have carried the story, I'd be surprised if more hadn't.

 

[Bald Rick]

Should get that back due to the publicity in the papers, I believe the Guardian and Independent have carried the story, I'd be surprised if more hadn't.

Publicity itself doesn’t pay. It will only pay if they sell lots of tickets for the next three weeks.

 

[jfollows]

My understanding is that:

• It's £75 to Birmingham or Manchester, you're paying for the seat from London, up to you where you get off
• No railcard discount

I'm thinking of using the service on Friday, day out in London, nice time to come home.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'm thinking of using the service on Friday, day out in London, nice time to come home.

You don't get much time in London. The inbound working arrives at 1612 and the return Northbound is at 1727.

 

[jfollows]

You don't get much time in London. The inbound working arrives at 1612 and the return Northbound is at 1727.

Yes, indeed, I didn't say that I'll be going much earlier to London on a different service, probably LNWR from Crewe.

In my youth the timing would have been fine for a quick trip to Collector's Corner but now my tastes have diversified and I need more time in London .......

 

[Birmingham]

Yes, indeed, I didn't say that I'll be going much earlier to London on a different service, probably LNWR from Crewe.

Lack of single-leg pricing at the moment doesn’t help with this. Unless you buy a normal return and get half refunded when your return service is inevitably cancelled.

 

[Howardh]

You don't get much time in London. The inbound working arrives at 1612 and the return Northbound is at 1727.

As alluded to, the 1133 from Crewe works perfectly timing wise!

 

[dmncf]

Why do Inter City have a PO Box in St Erth, Cornwall as their postal address? What's their connection to St Erth?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Lack of single-leg pricing at the moment doesn’t help with this. Unless you buy a normal return and get half refunded when your return service is inevitably cancelled.

LNR do on occasions do VERY cheap Advances. £8 or so Crewe to Euston isn't at all unknown.

 

[JonathanH]

LNR do on occasions do VERY cheap Advances. £8 or so Crewe to Euston isn't at all unknown.

£9.50 is the starting level now - still cheap.

 

[nedchester]

If it is a ‘scabex’ then that means Avanti staff are taking industrial action by not working rest days, which would mean Avanti’s comments about industrial action are correct.

I am more than aware what a Scab is in regard to industrial relations and hence my reference to a technicality and what others are calling it.

However, there is no doubt that the optics of running an extra train when there are issues with the main operator could be seen as political whether the term “Scabex” directly applies or not.

 

[Howardh]

£9.50 is the starting level now - still cheap.

Earlier this summer I was first class for £14, single with railcard. OK First is only a tad better than standard and there's no catering, but still it's a seat way cheaper than standard on Avanti on a train that isn't Avanti. Takes half-an-hour or so longer, but gives you chance to see the scenery through bigger windows!

 

[Bertie the bus]

However, there is no doubt that the optics of running an extra train when there are issues with the main operator could be seen as political whether the term “Scabex” directly applies or not.

I’m really not convinced this is political in any way. If you look at it objectively it is actually quite embarrassing for the government – the train service is so abysmal some multi-millionaire with a train set needs to step in to help out.

I think it is far more likely it is Hosking thinking I’ve got some very nice trains that do very little and I could make some money here. He says in the Guardian article this isn’t the limit of his ambitions and although I doubt he ever thought he was going to make any money on these if he can set a precedent that an open access service masquerading as a charter running at a prime time is acceptable and exploits it he could in the future.

 

[nedchester]

I’m really not convinced this is political in any way. If you look at it objectively it is actually quite embarrassing for the government – the train service is so abysmal some multi-millionaire with a train set needs to step in to help out.

I think it is far more likely it is Hosking thinking I’ve got some very nice trains that do very little and I could make some money here. He says in the Guardian article this isn’t the limit of his ambitions and although I doubt he ever thought he was going to make any money on these if he can set a precedent that an open access service masquerading as a charter running at a prime time is acceptable and exploits it he could in the future.

The second point highlights that it is political. A loss leader to prove a point.

Although about £600 in revenue to run the train means it made a substantial loss yesterday……

 

[Bertie the bus]

How can you possibly have misread so few words so badly? I said nothing about a loss leader to prove a point. Setting a precedent that you can later exploit to make money isn't making a point. A businessman trying to make money isn't political.

 

[Gloster]

I have skimmed the thread and agree that there might be problems if passengers with Avanti tickets think they can use the train at times of disruption (or get on by accident). But what about the other way round. If the one-off special has a problem will Avanti carry its passengers without extra charge or will it just shrug its shoulders and tell them to sort things out for themselves? And will Avanti passengers be happy if they find someone on their train who has paid a lot less for their ticket? Or if the best way of sorting things out is to cancel the one-off, what then?

In a way it is a microcosm of the railway as a whole: somebody making a nice bit of money and to holl with the railway as a whole? Passengers? Don’t you mean cash cows?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Avanti at the moment is "to hell"ing itself. You really can't direct your ire at a charter operator for that, that makes no sense.

 

[nedchester]

How can you possibly have misread so few words so badly? I said nothing about a loss leader to prove a point. Setting a precedent that you can later exploit to make money isn't making a point. A businessman trying to make money isn't political.

A businessman with close links to the Tory party...........

You can be very critical of Avanti (which is a disgrace) and also be suspicious of the motivations of LSL for the running of this train at the same time. This is especially true when Shapps is making proposals about what is going to happen if the dispute continues (and claims wrongly that Drivers are taking unofficial action)

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Who is controlling access to platform/train ?

No revenue protection so if you get on at Wilmslow off at Piccadilly what ticket would you need and expect to produce?

And where would you purchase last minute

Railcard discounts would be nice!

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Railcard discounts would be nice!

Railcard discounts won't be in the quota, as its a charter service. It's just the way it's done has been to make it look like an open access operation by using loopholes in the path-bidding process with Network Rail.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They said they’re looking to “take over more of Avanti’s slots” long term

Very short term - i.e. four weeks - fine. Hoping to run this and more on other routes - not fine, surely? Charter trains for enthusiasts who want a throwback ride on a train dressed as InterCity, on a permanent path that could and should by a passenger service, on Britain’s busiest rail route.

Of course Avanti can’t use it now, but if they haven’t got enough staff to run it in a months time, action needs to be taken to have them outed and an OLR brought in, or at very least a tender for an Open Access TOC for the route to supplement the missing services. The point is, charter railtours absolutely should not take the place of busy public passenger services on a permanent basis. On a Friday evening too! Surely?

If they applied to be an OA TOC, it would be different - but as it stands - you can’t book tickets through any legal public transport way, not on National Rail Enq or TrainLine nor any TOC website or ticket machine, or even a ticket office, railcards are not valid and it doesn’t show up on public train times information. The public won’t even have a clue about it that way, so it is an enthusiast railtour taking up a weekly passenger slot if it remains long term. By the time the WCML operator gets its act together re. staff, these 110mph slots should definitely be returned.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course it won't. It is no more permanent than the WCRC Windermere operation was.

There is a spare path for an OAO on the WCML, but I doubt he will want it.