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Island Line half hourly timetable start date?

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Kite159

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I agree that trains should not be held for more than a few minutes for late-running catamarans. But as I have said before there is no downside to extending all the Esplanade terminators to Pierhead so as to reduce the delay for affected passengers. The extra cost of running up the pier must be trifling.

Unfortunately the problem of missed connections is not going to get easier in the next few weeks (months?). Wightlink are engaged in a major rebuild of the terminal at Portsmouth, during which time passengers are embarking/disembarking via a temporary walkway including a staircase on to the roof of the building. Outbound passengers have to wait in the station until all those arriving have cleared the walkway. The whole process is much slower than normal, and means that at busy periods the catamaran will have difficulty in keeping to timetable.

I noticed that a couple weeks ago, the boat was late departing Portsmouth Harbour due to the extra time it takes to unload/reload at the temporary berth.

Extending the Esplanade terminators to the Pier Head also gives passengers the chance of a more relaxing connection, maybe time for a coffee (if the Costa reopens), rather than going straight from train to boat.
 
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hermit

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It should not be understated just how important this is. If the connection is not reliable, people simply will not use it and it might as well be closed forthwith.
Neither should it be overstated : the fact is that connections are normally made, just as they were with the previous train service. And the reasons for the long-term decline in the usage of the Portsmouth-Ryde route go much wider than perceived unreliability.
 

hermit

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The summer timetable data is now in systems, and the relevant pdf timetable is posted on the SWR website. It doesn't look good. https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/timetables
Yes, the timetable has actually worsened since February, in that when there are gaps in the hourly Wightlink catamaran service - one in mid-morning and one in the afternoon- the relevant train does not now go up the pier, terminating at Esplanade, leaving 2 hour gaps at Pierhead. There is some logic to this, in that the only point of Pierhead station is as an interchange with the ferry, but it does assume that things will run smoothly. As discussed upthread, people are going to be stranded for long periods if the catamaran is late.

Surprisingly, the last two services of the day still run up the pier to meet the non-existent last two ferries, which Wightlink have still not restored following the pandemic closedown. The lack of an evening catamaran service is a real problem for islanders hoping to have an evening out in Portsmouth, let alone other mainland places. The options are to use the ferry to Fishbourne (slow, and no bus connections) or take the car (expensive). A sad decline from 20 years ago, when the last catamaran from Portsmouth was at 0015.
 

Kite159

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I wonder if the likes of the 1248 Shanklin to Ryde St Johns Road & 1617 Ryde St Johns Road to Shanklin on Saturdays will use the 3rd platform at St John's Road or will they use the main platforms with ECS shunts to get the unit out of the way.

Hourly on Sundays is a mistake, I can see some of those trains getting overcrowded, especially during school holidays
 
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In the December 2019 timetable there were two trains an hour Shanklin to Ryde Pier Head 0618 (0818 Sundays with one earlier train at 0718) to 2018 inclusive seven days a week with the last two services at 2118 and 2238. The timetable with two trains an hour each way on the full route between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin was achieved with the trains passing each other alternately at Ryde St Johns and Sandown at 30 minute intervals. The 20 minute and 40 minute intervals between successive train calls at each station were fine. It is clear from the new timetable at
which is one train per hour on the entire line Sundays and one train an hour at Ryde Pier Head Monday to Saturday with two hour gaps at Ryde Pier Head 1040 to 1240 and 1340 to 1540 Monday to Friday
that it is not possible to have a workable timetable of two trains an hour each way on the full route between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin with the trains passing each other at Brading. They should restore the December 2019 timetable.
 

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TT-ONR-NRN

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The gap around 2pm is due to the fact there is no 2pm sailing from Portsmouth. I know this because it irritated me a few weeks ago when I had wanted to sail at this time.

I took the Hovercraft instead, which was delayed on the outbound and cancelled on the return, and so they bundled us onto the fast cat anyway. Now that is when I could have done with additional trains to the Pier Head, as dragging three large suitcases down the gappy Pier was not fun.
 

AlbertBeale

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In the December 2019 timetable there were two trains an hour Shanklin to Ryde Pier Head 0618 (0818 Sundays with one earlier train at 0718) to 2018 inclusive seven days a week with the last two services at 2118 and 2238. The timetable with two trains an hour each way on the full route between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin was achieved with the trains passing each other alternately at Ryde St Johns and Sandown at 30 minute intervals. The 20 minute and 40 minute intervals between successive train calls at each station were fine. It is clear from the new timetable at
which is one train per hour on the entire line Sundays and one train an hour at Ryde Pier Head Monday to Saturday with two hour gaps at Ryde Pier Head 1040 to 1240 and 1340 to 1540 Monday to Friday
that it is not possible to have a workable timetable of two trains an hour each way on the full route between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin with the trains passing each other at Brading. They should restore the December 2019 timetable.

I thought the whole idea of the revised passing loop with the new rolling stock was that the twice an hour service could be more even than the 20mins/40mins previously? Given the ferry connection is currently only hourly, then going back to the 20/40 service with the old passing places presumably makes sense, as long as one of the two links well with the ferry.

But assuming the ferry goes back to its previous frequency, then surely something has to be done to speed up the journey so that a 30/30 service can work with the ferries? [Why isn't the ferry back to twice an hour again??]

Did someone get their sums wrong? And/or is there a problem with the rolling stock and/or track which is causing a slower service than was planned? I assumed the initial service was just teething problems after the revamp - but it seems ongoing. What a disaster!

The previously pretty slick ferry-train connection at each end was what made the (eastern) IoW so attractive as a destination to visit from the London area. I'm sure I'm not the only bit of the tourist trade that will be duiscouraged if this isn't sorted out.
 
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I thought the whole idea of the revised passing loop with the new rolling stock was that the twice an hour service could be more even than the 20mins/40mins previously? Given the ferry connection is currently only hourly, then going back to the 20/40 service with the old passing places presumably makes sense, as long as one of the two links well with the ferry.

But assuming the ferry goes back to its previous frequency, then surely something has to be done to speed up the journey so that a 30/30 service can work with the ferries? [Why isn't the ferry back to twice an hour again??]

Did someone get their sums wrong? And/or is there a problem with the rolling stock and/or track which is causing a slower service than was planned? I assumed the initial service was just teething problems after the revamp - but it seems ongoing. What a disaster!

The previously pretty slick ferry-train connection at each end was what made the (eastern) IoW so attractive as a destination to visit from the London area. I'm sure I'm not the only bit of the tourist trade that will be duiscouraged if this isn't sorted out.
The point of the Brading Loop was to enable the Island Line trains to run at 30 minute intervals but the new timetable shows it was never going to work. There were warnings that it would not work as Brading Station is too close to Shanklin, it is not at the halfway point between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin for the timetable. The parts of the new timetable that run two trains an hour show them passing at Brading with 33 minutes and 27 minute intervals with alternate trains turning around at Ryde Esplanade or Ryde St Johns Road. Unless something can be done to reduce the time taken for the trains to travel between Ryde Pier Head and Brading by at least two minutes the only way to get two trains an hour on the full route between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin is to restore the December 2019 timetable.
 

bramling

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The point of the Brading Loop was to enable the Island Line trains to run at 30 minute intervals but the new timetable shows it was never going to work. There were warnings that it would not work as Brading Station is too close to Shanklin, it is not at the halfway point between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin for the timetable. The parts of the new timetable that run two trains an hour show them passing at Brading with 33 minutes and 27 minute intervals with alternate trains turning around at Ryde Esplanade or Ryde St Johns Road. Unless something can be done to reduce the time taken for the trains to travel between Ryde Pier Head and Brading by at least two minutes the only way to get two trains an hour on the full route between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin is to restore the December 2019 timetable.

The only quick wins that I can see are removing the speed restriction which applies for a footpath crossing south of Ryde St John's Road, and possibly ditching Smallbrook Junction calls.

I was on the island last week and usage of the service was pitiful, so clearly some level of re-think is necessary.
 

Bletchleyite

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Why are we so absolutely terrible at this sort of stuff in this country? It's depressing.

It is an almighty screw-up that a load of highly expensive infrastructure was installed which is clearly incapable of delivering the publicised aim, i.e. a fully consistent half-hourly clockface service from start to end of service.

Questions should be asked as to how this happened. It seems to me that the Brading loop is another Ordsall Chord - it has made things worse, not better, and consideration should be given to mothballing it, unless there are other ways to speed up running to allow the proposed timetable to operate. I'd have to have a ride to see if I could see any such improvements.

Based on Marston Vale experience of these units and their foibles, a few that might help are:
1. Driver door operation (but retain safety-critical guards, they're important for revenue on this sort of line anyway)
2. Replace the doors with faster-moving, two-leaf plug doors. These are widely available on the bus market
3. Remove passenger door control
4. All intermediate stations to be request stops, with bus style stop buttons fitted to the units

Those four together should get a few minutes off a run - is that enough, or would we need linespeed improvements too?

I have created a speculative thread to pursue this line of discussion: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...anned-half-hourly-clockface-timetable.229936/
 
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hermit

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The point of the Brading Loop was to enable the Island Line trains to run at 30 minute intervals but the new timetable shows it was never going to work. There were warnings that it would not work as Brading Station is too close to Shanklin, it is not at the halfway point between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin for the timetable. The parts of the new timetable that run two trains an hour show them passing at Brading with 33 minutes and 27 minute intervals with alternate trains turning around at Ryde Esplanade or Ryde St Johns Road. Unless something can be done to reduce the time taken for the trains to travel between Ryde Pier Head and Brading by at least two minutes the only way to get two trains an hour on the full route between Ryde Pier Head and Shanklin is to restore the December 2019 timetable.

It does appear to be the case that moving the passing place much closer to the halfway point of the line (from Sandown to Brading) at great expense has actually resulted in a less satisfactory service than we had before, with connections at Pierhead slightly tighter than they were.

At the moment Island Line are being let off the hook by the fact that the 30 minute interval ferry service on which the improvements were predicated hardly ever exists. Wightlink‘s timetable for the rest of the year shows a second boat in use only on a few days around bank holidays, on Saturdays in Easter Week and August and on Sundays in July and August. The half-hourly services that used to run in rush- hours and throughout much of the summer no longer exist and there seems little prospect of them being restored. Wightlink point to lack of demand, though there is always the suspicion that there’s an element of self-fulfilling prophesy in that.

The reduced service is not just a concern for actual and potential tourists, but there are also a lot of residents on the East Wight who have relied on being able to travel easily to the mainland, whether as commuters or for other reasons. Short of the imposition of a public service obligation on the ferries we may have to get used to the new normal.
 

Gloster

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And you have a private company given free reign to do want it wants, even if it means that the publicly funded work is not fully utilised/largely wasted. There should have been an agreement with Wightlink that it would run an hourly service (*) throughout the day, with a second cat for much of it.

However, the upgrading work did achieve its main purpose: it shovelled large amounts of public cash into pockets of consultants and private companies. Hurrah for British entrepreneurs!

(*) Service is a terribly old-fashioned, not to say dirty, word. Nowadays it is all about each company making a profit: if they can’t, then who cares. The idea of providing a functioning transport service to the advantage of all is just so twentieth century.
 

Bletchleyite

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I must admit I find it very strange that Wightlink's foot passenger services are not a subsidised contract and part of the SWR operation (even if subcontracted), as they are basically a TOC, and previously were BR operated.
 

hermit

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I must admit I find it very strange that Wightlink's foot passenger services are not a subsidised contract and part of the SWR operation (even if subcontracted), as they are basically a TOC, and previously were BR operated.
Welcome to our world! Unfortunately since its management sell-out, Wightlink have been owned by a series of financial outfits (including Macquarie, the notorious vampire kangaroo) whose priorities have been maximising the financial return via price increases and service reductions. It seems obvious that such a lifeline service should be subject to a public service obligation with appropriate subsidy if necessary, as with for example the Scottish islands served by Calmac and Northlink. But the idea has got nowhere with government. If only we were a marginal seat!
 

bramling

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It is an almighty screw-up that a load of highly expensive infrastructure was installed which is clearly incapable of delivering the publicised aim, i.e. a fully consistent half-hourly clockface service from start to end of service.

Questions should be asked as to how this happened. It seems to me that the Brading loop is another Ordsall Chord - it has made things worse, not better, and consideration should be given to mothballing it, unless there are other ways to speed up running to allow the proposed timetable to operate. I'd have to have a ride to see if I could see any such improvements.

Based on Marston Vale experience of these units and their foibles, a few that might help are:
1. Driver door operation (but retain safety-critical guards, they're important for revenue on this sort of line anyway)
2. Replace the doors with faster-moving, two-leaf plug doors. These are widely available on the bus market
3. Remove passenger door control
4. All intermediate stations to be request stops, with bus style stop buttons fitted to the units

Those four together should get a few minutes off a run - is that enough, or would we need linespeed improvements too?

I have created a speculative thread to pursue this line of discussion: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...anned-half-hourly-clockface-timetable.229936/

For sure the whole thing is a bit of a mess at the moment. Passenger numbers on the Island Line are a trickle, and I’m not sure how much Covid can be blamed for that as the island seems to be pretty much back to normal life.

Can’t help but wonder whether the money could have been spent on a properly thorough overhaul of the 38 stock. Apart from a smoother ride (and to be honest the former boneshaking 38 stock ride may well have been part of the attraction for tourists) the D stock doesn’t seem to be offering much else. I overheard that three of the four commissioned trains were defective all this week, not exactly a great shout for an essentially “new” fleet.

Maybe I’m a bit jaundiced, however it does seem to be a case of spending quite a bit of money to get the Island Line almost as good as it was before…
 

Gloster

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To be honest, I think the ‘38 stock had reached the point where it was no longer possible to bring it back to the level required to run a regular daily service. Maybe it would have been better to have gone for a new build, possibly a modified version of 2009 stock (if they had not kept putting replacement off on the grounds that old trains are an attraction) or S Stock, if they are technically suitable. But saving money has turned out more expensive, as usual.
 

P Binnersley

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Can't they go back to the 20/40 timetable they had before?
Its embarrassing. But having to wait 60 minutes if you miss a train seems to be killing traffic.
 

Taunton

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It is an almighty screw-up that a load of highly expensive infrastructure was installed which is clearly incapable of delivering the publicised aim, i.e. a fully consistent half-hourly clockface service from start to end of service.
I just wish to point out that when the line was first electrified, with the first lot of tube trains, it ran every 12 minutes, 5 trains per hour each way, all day long. With 7-car trains.
 

Peter Sarf

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Can't they go back to the 20/40 timetable they had before?
Its embarrassing. But having to wait 60 minutes if you miss a train seems to be killing traffic.
I was trying to work out if a 00/20/40 timetable could work ?. If two trains can be 20 minutes apart in the old timetable it occurs to me the OLD passing places must be suitable for an extra train 20 minutes before/after the 20/40 pair. Obviously this adds cost But this would make the service more attractive so demand might fill that 50% increase in service.

Currently it looks a dead loss. Especially considering that the pier is the worst served part of the route, having the lowest frequency and yet has no alternatives - what service ?.

I just wish to point out that when the line was first electrified, with the first lot of tube trains, it ran every 12 minutes, 5 trains per hour each way, all day long. With 7-car trains.
Blimay - was there more double track or more passing places in those days ?.
 

Gloster

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I just wish to point out that when the line was first electrified, with the first lot of tube trains, it ran every 12 minutes, 5 trains per hour each way, all day long. With 7-car trains.
I think that was the summer Saturday service. On winter weekdays it was hourly with morning and evening peak extras.

Until 1988 it was double track from Brading to Sandown. Until 1979 there was a signal box at Shanklin, which I think could be switched out.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Until 1988 it was double track from Brading to Sandown.

Which was perversely singled to allow the closure of Sandown box and thus reduce operation costs to allow for funding of the then ‘new’ 1938 stock.

Can't they go back to the 20/40 timetable they had before?

I understand the new trains have TPWS which require different (and in some cases more cautious) driving techniques than previously was required.
 

Chris125

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I overheard that three of the four commissioned trains were defective all this week, not exactly a great shout for an essentially “new” fleet.

001/003/004 have all been used in the last week and nothing I've heard or seen suggests availability is proving an issue.
 
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bramling

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001/003/004 have all been used in the last week and nothing I've heard or seen suggests availability is proving an issue.

I’m only passing on what I heard, which did come from train crew so has all the usual caveats. It’s not inconsistent with 484001 running for six days solid whilst I was on the island, though to be fair it’s not unusual on the Island Line for the same units to run for days in a row.
 

Chris125

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I’m only passing on what I heard, which did come from train crew so has all the usual caveats. It’s not inconsistent with 484001 running for six days solid whilst I was on the island, though to be fair it’s not unusual on the Island Line for the same units to run for days in a row.

Not a reliable source of information sadly, last year proved that beyond doubt - being generous perhaps there's some Chinese whispers going on among the staff but if this was a genuine issue you'd see it impacting services and it simply hasn't, even when two units are running.
 

AB93

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Yes, the timetable has actually worsened since February, in that when there are gaps in the hourly Wightlink catamaran service - one in mid-morning and one in the afternoon- the relevant train does not now go up the pier, terminating at Esplanade, leaving 2 hour gaps at Pierhead. There is some logic to this, in that the only point of Pierhead station is as an interchange with the ferry, but it does assume that things will run smoothly. As discussed upthread, people are going to be stranded for long periods if the catamaran is late.
Reading elsewhere that this has indeed happened this week.
 

Big Jumby 74

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I was trying to work out if a 00/20/40 timetable could work ?. If two trains can be 20 minutes apart in the old timetable it occurs to me the OLD passing places must be suitable for an extra train 20 minutes before/after the 20/40 pair. Obviously this adds cost But this would make the service more attractive so demand might fill that 50% increase in service.
Haven't looked at that, but an exact half hourly service won't work now. The passing place (Brading) is in the wrong place. For a half hourly service to work properly the 'loop', or should I say the place trains need to cross, is between Brading and Smallbrook Jn (Rowborough Bridge area) which ironically was built, at least overbridge wise, in the 19th century for double track. But as double track was never laid, the associated works, drainage etc, would have probably cost far more today than just reinstating the double track through Brading platforms.

The point of the Brading Loop was to enable the Island Line trains to run at 30 minute intervals but the new timetable shows it was never going to work. There were warnings that it would not work as Brading Station is too close to Shanklin
PS: with apologies to Weeklycommuter, who already mentioned this. Only did a very brief scan of previous posts before putting my halfpenny worth in.....:oops:
 
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Deafdoggie

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We arrived on the island today, and is normal, the ferry missed the train. I'm told this is fairly normal, but it's loosing custom rapidly. Certainly I'd drive if I came again, it's utterly ridiculous. And, of course, you can't claim delay repay.
 

pompeyfan

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We arrived on the island today, and is normal, the ferry missed the train. I'm told this is fairly normal, but it's loosing custom rapidly. Certainly I'd drive if I came again, it's utterly ridiculous. And, of course, you can't claim delay repay.

Is it due to the temporary berthing arrangements at the Harbour? I’ve noticed a lot of boats not getting away until closer to xx:20, and even then the captains don’t seem in a rush to open them up, even when in line with the hovercraft terminal.

Sadly you can’t hold the train for the boat without jeopardising passengers heading to the mainland
 
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