Kings Cross ‘uncrossed’ Layout/Remodelling - Information and Updates

[Brissle Girl]

I only ever remember the Kings Cross line to Moorgate services being just in the rush hour (when I was first in the Kings Cross area regularly and first became aware of them, seeing a train emerging across the other side of the station on the Hotel Curve one day). When did it stop being an all-day service? Indeed, when did the St Pancras route to Moorgate ones stop being all-day?

For clarity, the southbound service I described was indeed morning rush hour only

 

[Railwaysceptic]

For clarity, the southbound service I described was indeed morning rush hour only

My first office job meant using that service. I lived in Palmers Green and worked in Farringdon Road. Later I got a job in Finsbury Square and went to work via Broad Street.

 

[Mag_seven]

Whilst memories of commuting into and out of Kings Cross etc are interesting they do not belong in this thread so can we please keep this thread for updates etc for the Kings Cross remodelling project.

Thanks.

 

[Mcq]

Contributions to this thread regarding progress are remarkably thin for such a major project.
I wish there was more news from those closer to the project - there's possessions of KX platforms most nights

 

[crablab]

If it's any use, they're currently in the process of digging a trench and putting these hollow precast concrete rectangles in, as part of the diversion of a sewer (I think?). That's at the South end of Gasworks Tunnel.

 

[Mcq]

Thanks very much - very helpful

 

[malc-c]

Contributions to this thread regarding progress are remarkably thin for such a major project.
I wish there was more news from those closer to the project - there's possessions of KX platforms most nights

Having spent 18 months documenting the Stevenage Turnback project and the installation of new point / track work for the siding to the aggregate plant and Hertford loop it does strike me as odd that no one has been out with the cameras documenting this project in a similar way.

Granted things may be moving at a slower pace at KX, but the big events could be covered

 

[Bald Rick]

Having spent 18 months documenting the Stevenage Turnback project and the installation of new point / track work for the siding to the aggregate plant and Hertford loop it does strike me as odd that no one has been out with the cameras documenting this project in a similar way.

Granted things may be moving at a slower pace at KX, but the big events could be covered

There’s not that much obvious happening, at least not in public areas.

There will be from next month though.

 

[nmbenson]

Have I missed the point completely or will the net result of all this work be to just push the congestion issue back from Gasworks to Holloway tunnel?

 

[Bald Rick]

Have I missed the point completely or will the net result of all this work be to just push the congestion issue back from Gasworks to Holloway tunnel?

Yes, you’ve missed the point completely.

 

[Mcq]

There’s not that much obvious happening, at least not in public areas.

There will be from next month though.

That's a bit bit more interesting Bald Rick - can you give a heads up as to what will be happening in the next month - even if our excellent malc-c can't be there with camera in hand!
Malc-c set an incredibly high standard for the Stevenage P5 thread - it would be good if anyone is able to pep this one up a bit, given the enormity and strategic importance of this project.

 

[takno]

Have I missed the point completely or will the net result of all this work be to just push the congestion issue back from Gasworks to Holloway tunnel?

I would guess it allows a significant distance where a departure can happen at the same time as an arrival. At the very least that might eliminate a couple of minutes wait for a path into the station, and if there are a couple of arrivals and departures bunched up could save a 6 or 7 minute wait. Also gives two places where the crossing moves can take place, meaning that you are more likely to be able to cross onto the correct line without blocking the path for an oncoming train. It also simplifies the track layout overall, which allows a higher maximum speed across the approaches, reduces maintenance cost, and should reduce the number of points failures.

 

[nmbenson]

I would guess it allows a significant distance where a departure can happen at the same time as an arrival. At the very least that might eliminate a couple of minutes wait for a path into the station, and if there are a couple of arrivals and departures bunched up could save a 6 or 7 minute wait. Also gives two places where the crossing moves can take place, meaning that you are more likely to be able to cross onto the correct line without blocking the path for an oncoming train. It also simplifies the track layout overall, which allows a higher maximum speed across the approaches, reduces maintenance cost, and should reduce the number of points failures.

Ah, thank you that’s helped my understanding

 

[Brissle Girl]

Having spent 18 months documenting the Stevenage Turnback project and the installation of new point / track work for the siding to the aggregate plant and Hertford loop it does strike me as odd that no one has been out with the cameras documenting this project in a similar way.

Granted things may be moving at a slower pace at KX, but the big events could be covered

Your updates on the Stevenage Turnback were second to none, and I'm not sure anyone could match them for content and frequency. I do wonder whether the site at KX is less accessible to unofficial observers, which along with less regular travel into London may have made anyone thinking of trying to document the project decide that they wouldn't be able to provide anything meaningful to post.

 

[Bayum]

What sort of capacity improvements are we looking at for long distance journeys? Particularly as much of the ECML south of Doncaster seems pretty busy with LNER and then the Great Northern and Thameslink services from Peterborough onwards.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

What sort of capacity improvements are we looking at for long distance journeys? Particularly as much of the ECML south of Doncaster seems pretty busy with LNER and then the Great Northern and Thameslink services from Peterborough onwards.

I think it all adds up to an additional 2 tph when taken in combination with recent improvements at Stevenage plus the Werrington work.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Have I missed the point completely or will the net result of all this work be to just push the congestion issue back from Gasworks to Holloway tunnel?

One point you may have missed is that by bringing back into use the eastern bore of Gasworks Tunnel - through which I travelled frequently as a child and as an adolescent - it enables them to avoid conflict between trains on the down slow and the Thameslink trains proceeding to and from St. Pancras low-level.

 

[tasky]

I think it all adds up to an additional 2 tph when taken in combination with recent improvements at Stevenage plus the Werrington work.

Any idea what LNER or others plan to do with these slots?

 

[Brissle Girl]

Any idea what LNER or others plan to do with these slots?

A good question but probably better for another thread, as this one is to discuss the infrastructure work in progress.

 

[swt_passenger]

Any idea what LNER or others plan to do with these slots?

It allows for the eventual timetable discussed at length in an earlier thread, but basically an 8tph long distance capacity, which consists of 6.5 tph for LNER, and 0.5 tph for each of HT, GC, and First group open access. For ECML/LNER it allows for 2 tph to Edinburgh all day, an extra Newcastle, and a Middlesbrough service.
Please see thread here:

Future ECML & LNER Services

In the LNER Azuma thread this document was posted. It lists the service asperations (now) LNER planned for various timetables once the new Azumas are up and running. Although the timescales will have slipped, the base LNER service for May 2019 would have seen the following... Hourly Kings...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bald Rick]

I think it all adds up to an additional 2 tph when taken in combination with recent improvements at Stevenage plus the Werrington work.

Plus the power supply upgrades (multiple).

 

[swt_passenger]

One point you may have missed is that by bringing back into use the eastern bore of Gasworks Tunnel - through which I travelled frequently as a child and as an adolescent - it enables them to avoid conflict between trains on the down slow and the Thameslink trains proceeding to and from St. Pancras low-level.

Yes, that feature is effectively providing the grade separation of Belle Isle Junction that a lot of people had on their original wish list. (That is, they wondered why it wasn’t provided by the Thameslink project anyway.)

Someone did highlight it in the previous iteration of this discussion, but I think it flies under the radar normally.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Plus the power supply upgrades (multiple).

Blushes.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Yes, that feature is effectively providing the grade separation of Belle Isle Junction that a lot of people had on their original wish list. (That is, they wondered why it wasn’t provided by the Thameslink project anyway.)

Someone did highlight it in the previous iteration of this discussion, but I think it flies under the radar normally.

I don't really understand how that conflict is avoided. Do you mean services leaving the station from the high-number platforms can now wiggle across the throat, to get out of the way of a Thameslink bound for St P, because the reopened tunnel leaves somewhere else for inbound trans to get past them? But surely it's the new extra crossovers between existing tracks in, and just north of, the Gasworks Tunnel that allows for that, not the reopened tunnel? And in any case, presumably it all only helps in the case of certain combinations of platform use?

 

[30907]

I don't really understand how that conflict is avoided. Do you mean services leaving the station from the high-number platforms can now wiggle across the throat, to get out of the way of a Thameslink bound for St P, because the reopened tunnel leaves somewhere else for inbound trans to get past them? But surely it's the new extra crossovers between existing tracks in, and just north of, the Gasworks Tunnel that allows for that, not the reopened tunnel? And in any case, presumably it all only helps in the case of certain combinations of platform use?

I think you've interpreted it correctly. Suburban side to Down Slow via Down Fast.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I think you've interpreted it correctly. Suburban side to Down Slow via Down Fast.

In which case, where do the new tunnel tracks come into it? This move wouldn't block up fast line access to the low-number platforms with or without the new tunnel tracks.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't really understand how that conflict is avoided. Do you mean services leaving the station from the high-number platforms can now wiggle across the throat, to get out of the way of a Thameslink bound for St P, because the reopened tunnel leaves somewhere else for inbound trans to get past them? But surely it's the new extra crossovers between existing tracks in, and just north of, the Gasworks Tunnel that allows for that, not the reopened tunnel? And in any case, presumably it all only helps in the case of certain combinations of platform use?

Yes, it’s the overall work including the various crossover repositioning that allows for it, rather than the additional tunnel itself.

 

[Mcq]

I find the best way to envision the works is by printing off @MarkyT's most excellent pdf of both existing and proposed - I always have a copy to hand - see #3 above.

 

[crablab]

A picture of some trackslab

https://twitter.com/RickyBarsby/status/1308671461205438464?s=19

 

[Mcq]

Nice picture - thanks crablab.
If I'm not mistaken, looking at the full picture, where CEMEX is was almost exactly where the KX Cemetery station was - and of course track was there then for it's run to New Southgate