Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Edirim]

141 is hourly Monday to Saturday daytime

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It actually looks like the 12 is going to Ocean Terminal.

Gyle-Haymarket(as current 12)-Morrison Link-Exchange-Lothian Rd-Lauriston Pl-Potterrow-(Current 42 route to Portobello High St-Wakefield Av-Lochend-Leith Links-Duke Street-North Junc St

That’s the one bus per day for Holyrood/Portobello High Schools that extends to/from Leith. Should still be terminating in Marine garage at other times.

141 is hourly Monday to Saturday daytime

If this is correct then I would expect a reduction to the 140 to hourly then.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It actually looks like the 12 is going to Ocean Terminal.

Gyle-Haymarket(as current 12)-Morrison Link-Exchange-Lothian Rd-Lauriston Pl-Potterrow-(Current 42 route to Portobello High St-Wakefield Av-Lochend-Leith Links-Duke Street-North Junc St

I think it’s doing what the 42 currently does with its school run, Cameron Toll-Leith.

Have to say it’s a very interesting choice of route, completly cuts out the mound and gives Lothian Road a direct service to Haymarket, but still no Sunday or evening service for Portobello which is disapointing.

Hopefully an actual announcement will come today or soon, at this point we’re better finding out the source ourselves!

So far changes have been registered to the following: 2, N3, 11, 12 (cancelled and reregistered), 14, 15, 21, 25, N25, 26, 33, X33, 34, 35, 37, X37, 38, 41, X44, 49, 200 and 400. In addition to this the 42 and 300 have been cancelled (ie withdrawn). For ECB at the minute only the 140 has a change listed. No changes have been made to LC so far.

I can’t work traveline to save my life, was having enough trouble figuring out the 12 bug any guess as to what these other changes could be?

 

[computerSaysNo]

141 is hourly Monday to Saturday daytime

Does the route via Bush take the same amount of time as the route via Roslin?
Just wondering if the 140 and 141 are likely to combine for a service every half hour i.e. a bus at xx00 and xx30, or if there are going to be uneven gaps e.g. a bus at xx00 and xx20 with nothing until the following xx00?

 

[Busman757]

Ah, had forgotten about the school rush.

That’s the one bus per day for Holyrood/Portobello High Schools that extends to/from Leith. Should still be terminating in Marine garage at other times.

If this is correct then I would expect a reduction to the 140 to hourly then.

Would be an interesting route though and a direct bus from Portobello to Ocean Terminal?

That’s the one bus per day for Holyrood/Portobello High Schools that extends to/from Leith. Should still be terminating in Marine garage at other times.

If this is correct then I would expect a reduction to the 140 to hourly then.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

If you open a timetable on Bus Times, then put ?date=2022-09-12 at the end of the URL (e.g. https://bustimes.org/services/12-gyle-centre-seafield?date=2022-09-12) you can view the new timetable/map. Change the date as appropriate for Saturday/Sunday

 

[Busman757]

Does the route via Bush take the same amount of time as the route via Roslin?
Just wondering if the 140 and 141 are likely to combine for a service every half hour i.e. a bus at xx00 and xx30, or if there are going to be uneven gaps e.g. a bus at xx00 and xx20 with nothing until the following xx00?

140 reduced to hourly with the 141 operating in between

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Does the route via Bush take the same amount of time as the route via Roslin?

Good point. I’d say Bush is maybe slightly longer but it won’t be much. The 140 is very unreliable anyway so worst case scenario would be give it an extra couple of mins running time and that’ll balance it out for a schedule. In all likelihood it won’t change the reliability whatsoever as it’s frequently late by around 20 mins or more.

I’d imagine the two routes will need to interwork as well, at which end I’m not sure. It could easily be both.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Good point. I’d say Bush is maybe slightly longer but it won’t be much. The 140 is very unreliable anyway so worst case scenario would be give it an extra couple of mins running time and that’ll balance it out for a schedule. In all likelihood it won’t change the reliability whatsoever as it’s frequently late by around 20 mins or more.

I’d imagine the two routes will need to interwork as well, at which end I’m not sure. It could easily be both.

Really, as much as 20 minutes? All day or just in the peak?

 

[Bus9120UK]

It actually looks like the 12 is going to Ocean Terminal.

Gyle-Haymarket(as current 12)-Morrison Link-Exchange-Lothian Rd-Lauriston Pl-Potterrow-(Current 42 route to Portobello High St-Wakefield Av-Lochend-Leith Links-Duke Street-North Junc St

North Junction St is a school variation, is it not?

 

[alexf380]

Really, as much as 20 minutes? All day or just in the peak?

Between about 2pm-5pm it can get snarled up in traffic around Dalkeith/Musselburgh, but the rest of the day its fine. Often I have to wait time in Roslin heading to Penicuik as we're early.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Between about 2pm-5pm it can get snarled up in traffic around Dalkeith/Musselburgh, but the rest of the day its fine. Often I have to wait time in Roslin heading to Penicuik as we're early.

Ah okay. Yeah I would have been very surprised if it had been running 20 minutes late all day.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I can’t work traveline to save my life, was having enough trouble figuring out the 12 but any guess as to what these other changes could be?

I’ll have a look. It may take me a little while. I only noticed the 141 and X33 this morning as I was looking for 846 which is back out today.


175 is on its way back (I think in white but not sure), if anyone is looking for it.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Looking at bustimes.org it would appear some of Lothian’s upcoming changes have been applied to its feed, which I believe comes from Traveline.

The X33 looks like it’s being rerouted via Dalkeith Heights and will likely no longer serve Old Edinburgh Road, Buccleuch Street, South Street, Newmills Road or most of Lauder Road. Instead it will likely run past the Country Park, head along to Thornybank Roundabout and then continue along Salters Road and Cowden Road and then down into Easthouses. Same in reverse I’d expect. If this is correct this change makes sense and gives Dalkeith Heights a link to the city again.

For those wondering what the variation is to the 140 is, there’s a new 141. This route unsurprisingly is pretty similar to the 140 but it will serve Easter Bush rather than Roslin. It doesn’t appear to be doing anything else. I’d imagine this is a peak extra route (so not like the 47 where it becomes a 47B for the peak) that will only run maybe once or twice in each direction. It could run all day, but I don’t think it will. Nice to see the number back after a very long time though.

And the 12, now that’s interesting. We all got this completely wrong! It appears to be going via Morrison Link, Western Approach Road, Lothian Road, Earl Grey Street and Lauriston Place in both directions. I have to say I’m not really sure what the point of this is, but I’m sure time will tell. The route either side of this looks like it’s the same as the current 12 and 42.

There’s almost certainly more so I’ll keep looking through and I’ll see what I can find.

Is the 141 like to old First Bus service?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Is the 141 like to old First Bus service?

It's the same as the 140 but it serves Easter Bush instead of Roslin, this was all mentioned in the original post you replied. The original 141 went to Fort Kinnaird which this won't.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

And does that mean the 15 is staying the same?

It's the same as the 140 but it serves Easter Bush instead of Roslin, this was all mentioned in the original post you replied. The original 141 went to Fort Kinnaird which this won't.

I misread it thanks.

 

[stevenedin]

Is the 141 like to old First Bus service?

According to this listing it was similar although they went to Wallyford

It's the same as the 140 but it serves Easter Bush instead of Roslin, this was all mentioned in the original post you replied. The original 141 went to Fort Kinnaird which this won't.

Was it not the 142 that went to Fort Kinnaird?

 

[Bus9120UK]

According to this listing it was similar although they went to Wallyford


Was it not the 142 that went to Fort Kinnaird?

This image would say otherwise: https://flickr.com/photos/lothian_b...EuZ-qXzDEM-JofpkK-KiZQgW-KeVvAB-KcBe2y-KiZRUW

(Link opens flickr image of service 141 displaying Fort Kinnaird destination, not my photo, credit goes to original author).

 

[Edirim]

From memory the 141 used to be via Auchindinny and extended to Royal at one point via Wallyford.
No first buses have ever gone via the Bush Estate.

 

[stevenedin]

This image would say otherwise: https://flickr.com/photos/lothian_b...EuZ-qXzDEM-JofpkK-KiZQgW-KeVvAB-KcBe2y-KiZRUW

(Link opens flickr image of service 141 displaying Fort Kinnaird destination, not my photo, credit goes to original author).

Thanks. I think that there was a 142 as well possibly that went to Fort Kinnaird too but i cant remember the route. Good to see the 141 coming back in some form.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Thanks. I think that there was a 142 as well possibly that went to Fort Kinnaird too but i cant remember the route. Good to see the 141 coming back in some form.

There was a 140, 141 and 142, all of which ran different routes at somepoint. I think there was even a schools 242 at one point. I have a booklet with them all listed. One route used to go to Polton Mill/Rosewell too.

 

[Edirim]

Don't forget the original 139 as well

 

[stevenedin]

Thanks. I remember the 338 and 428 that went to the Royal Infirmary but I can’t remember the exact route. There’s so many possibilities for new routes for East Coast Buses

 

[ScotRail158725]

There was a 140, 141 and 142, all of which ran different routes at somepoint. I think there was even a schools 242 at one point. I have a booklet with them all listed. One route used to go to Polton Mill/Rosewell too.

The 142 was the Polton Mill route

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Thanks. I remember the 338 and 428 that went to the Royal Infirmary but I can’t remember the exact route. There’s so many possibilities for new routes for East Coast Buses

I think those started off at Munro’s routes and then Edinburgh Coach Lines took them on and ran them as a Midlothian/East Lothian circular 328/329/330. I think it took almost 3 hours to go all the way round. They didn’t last long though, but definitely were something different.

There’s loads of places that ECB don’t serve but at this point (in East Lothian) it’s mostly areas that have only a subsidised service that they don’t go to.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It's the same as the 140 but it serves Easter Bush instead of Roslin, this was all mentioned in the original post you replied. The original 141 went to Fort Kinnaird which this won't.

Honestly I wish they did something more with this 141, yes it serves Bush like every other bus service in the area (15/37/47B) which the latter constantly reminds you that it serves the bush like we get it

But I don’t see why the 141 can’t serve Auchindinny or maybe take an alternative route via Loanhead, or even serve Wallyford and Levenhall before continuing onto Musselburgh, so many potentials to experiment with this and it falls flat on its face.

And does that mean the 15 is staying the same?

Looks like it, it’s annoying though, at this point why can’t they extend the 15 back to its old route? there is literally no excuse, the 124 is gone so a link between Portobello and Lothian Road would be nice and then the Morningside link to Penicuik would also be restored, why the hourly Bush service only? it’s sad

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I’ve attached the changes below. These are only the changes from my original post and are only route changes, with the exception of the Skylinks. There could easily be more route changes than this.


Lothian


12 - As above, to run Gyle to King’s Road/Leith. Route is current 12 Gyle to Haymarket, then via Morrison Link, Western Approach Road, Lothian Road, Earl Grey Street and Lauriston Place to Bristo Square, then via current 42 to King’s Road/Leith.

Monday to Saturday evening journeys will run from Gyle Centre to Bristo Square only. Sunday daytime buses will run from Gyle Centre to Bread Street only. Late Sunday evening buses will run from South Gyle to Bread Street only. A few late evening journeys will terminate at Princes Street.


21 - Route changed in Lochend/Restalrig.

From Sleigh Drive it now serves Restalrig Road South, Lochend Avenue, Sleigh Drive, Lochend Road South and Lochend Road to Duke Street, and the same in reverse, replacing the 34. The current section of route no longer served will instead be served by Service 49.


25 - Route changed in Lochend/Restalrig.

From Sleigh Drive it now serves Lochend Drive, Lochend Road South and Lochend Road to Easter Road junction, and the same in reverse, replacing the 49. The current section of route no longer served will instead be served by Service 49.


X33 - Rerouted via Dalkeith Heights in both directions instead of Lauder Road.


34 - Route changed in Lochend/Restalrig.

From Restalrig Road South it now serves Restalrig Road, Links Gardens, Links Place, Queen Charlotte Street, Constitution Street, Bernard Street and Commerical Street to Ocean Terminal, and the same in reverse, part replacing the 25 and also restoring a bus link to Links Gardens/Bernard Street. The current section of route no longer served will instead be served by Service 21.


42 - Withdrawn and part replaced by Service 12.


49 - Route changed in Lochend/Restalrig.

From Sleigh Drive it now serves Restalrig Road South, Restalrig Road, East Hermitage Place and Hermitage Place to Easter Road junction, and the same in reverse, replacing the 21 and 25. The current section of route no longer served will instead be served by Service 25.


ECB


140 - Reduced to hourly following introduction of new service 141.


141 - New hourly Monday to Saturday daytime service running in coordination with 140. This route serves Easter Bush instead of Roslin.


Skylink


200 - New night 0310 departure from Ocean Terminal to Airport introduced on all mornings. Special fares apply.


300 - Withdrawn and part replaced by Services 12 and 35.


400 - New 0304 departure from Gilmerton to Airport introduced on all mornings. Special fares apply.

And does that mean the 15 is staying the same?

As expected the 15 is staying as it is now in terms of route.

 

[InOban]

I would be interested in hearing from actual drivers/users, but I'm wondering whether the West End of Princes Street is still a major destination? Sending the 12 via the Morrison link serves the major development at Haymarket Yards, still leaves those heading for Princes Street only a short walk, and avoids a congested section of tram line.

Indeed I was thinking that the 47 could be sent that way, turning at Haymarket back onto Shandwick Place and then left on to Palmerston Place (a Street currently only served by an hourly contract service by a company I hadn't heard of before ) It would continue across Belford Bridge past the Art Galleries to Queensferry Road, then to Craigleith, and back to its original route at Crewe Toll past the other side of the Western General Hospital.

This would add two major traffic generators on to the route. Thoughts ?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I would be interested in hearing from actual drivers/users, but I'm wondering whether the West End of Princes Street is still a major destination? Sending the 12 via the Morrison link serves the major development at Haymarket Yards, still leaves those heading for Princes Street only a short walk, and avoids a congested section of tram line.

Indeed I was thinking that the 47 could be sent that way, turning at Haymarket back onto Shandwick Place and then left on to Palmerston Place (a Street currently only served by an hourly contract service by a company I hadn't heard of before ) It would continue across Belford Bridge past the Art Galleries to Queensferry Road, then to Craigleith, and back to its original route at Crewe Toll past the other side of the Western General Hospital.

This would add two major traffic generators on to the route. Thoughts ?

The 12 is going to be non stop from Haymarket Station to Lothian Road eastbound and non stop from The Exchange to Haymarket Station westbound. They may add in bus stops on Morrison Link later on but that’s the initial route.

The 47 for me is too well used on its current route via Queensferry Street and I’m not sure it would be a popular change if it was changed. The other routes (19 and 37) would need to be increased to make up for the loss of the 47.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I’ve attached the changes below. These are only the changes from my original post and are only route changes, with the exception of the Skylinks. There could easily be more route changes than this.


21 - Route changed in Lochend/Restalrig.

From Sleigh Drive it now serves Restalrig Road South, Lochend Avenue, Sleigh Drive, Lochend Road South and Lochend Road to Duke Street, and the same in reverse, replacing the 34. The current section of route no longer served will instead be served by Service 49.


25 - Route changed in Lochend/Restalrig.

From Sleigh Drive it now serves Lochend Drive, Lochend Road South and Lochend Road to Easter Road junction, and the same in reverse, replacing the 49. The current section of route no longer served will instead be served by Service 49.

34 - Route changed in Lochend/Restalrig.

From Restalrig Road South it now serves Restalrig Road, Links Gardens, Links Place, Queen Charlotte Street, Constitution Street, Bernard Street and Commerical Street to Ocean Terminal, and the same in reverse, part replacing the 25 and also restoring a bus link to Links Gardens/Bernard Street. The current section of route no longer served will instead be served by Service 21.

49 - Route changed in Lochend/Restalrig.

From Sleigh Drive it now serves Restalrig Road South, Restalrig Road, East Hermitage Place and Hermitage Place to Easter Road junction, and the same in reverse, replacing the 21 and 25. The current section of route no longer served will instead be served by Service 25

These changes seem a bit pointless and unnecessary.