Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[TheEastCoaster]

I can’t necessarily see an increase in frequency for the 400. The route is at its peak no more extensions are viable nor necessary

Never say never! The 400 is always busy whenever I’m on it, and with the 300 being withdrawn it could be an opportunity to trial a frequency increase on the 200 or 400!

 

[Mickcloud9]

Hoping to see increased frequency on the X18, an introduction of an N18 and also an increase to the 43’s which are at capacity most journeys throughout the day.

 

[stevenedin]

Hoping to see increased frequency on the X18, an introduction of an N18 and also an increase to the 43’s which are at capacity most journeys throughout the day.

You never know, the withdrawal of the 300 could free up some more buses for Lothian Country

 

[Mickcloud9]

You never know, the withdrawal of the 300 could free up some more buses for Lothian Country

Hopefully. Some of the buses at country are starting to look and drive tired. Maybe some of the reserve fleet could get the green white and gold makeover…

 

[Graeme Duncan]

If the 15 is going to be extended to Eastfield I suspect that they will be returning to Mari

 

[stevenedin]

Hopefully. Some of the buses at country are starting to look and drive tired. Maybe some of the reserve fleet could get the green white and gold makeover…

I can only imagine the amount of mileage those B9TL ex London Geminis are doing. I also noticed the front screen on 932 recently has started to look very worn out and the LEDs not so bright.

 

[mb88]

I can only imagine the amount of mileage those B9TL ex London Geminis are doing. I also noticed the front screen on 932 recently has started to look very worn out and the LEDs not so bright.

Even the interiors of the London Geminis are starting to look tatty now unfortunately.

Hoping to see increased frequency on the X18, an introduction of an N18 and also an increase to the 43’s which are at capacity most journeys throughout the day.

The 43 should become a City route and be transferred back to Central in my view. It is a city route, let’s face it. And it’s about time Lothian realised they can’t just put a green bus on a route and charge £1 more on the fares whilst paying the drivers £2 an hour less.

 

[stevenedin]

The 43 should become a City route and be transferred back to Central in my view. It is a city route, let’s face it. And it’s about time Lothian realised they can’t just put a green bus on a route and charge £1 more on the fares whilst paying the drivers £2 an hour less.

Agreed 100%

 

[Mickcloud9]

Yeah some of them are struggling… 1013 is a prime example. Hardly any power. It’s a nightmare trying to keep to a running board if you are unfortunate to be allocated this bus.

Even the interiors of the London Geminis are starting to look tatty now unfortunately.


The 43 should become a City route and be transferred back to Central in my view. It is a city route, let’s face it. And it’s about time Lothian realised they can’t just put a green bus on a route and charge £1 more on the fares whilst paying the drivers £2 an hour less.

The interiors are badly maintained. They aren’t up to the ‘LOTHIAN’ standard. If any city buses were in the state some of them are, they wouldn’t be allowed past the gate.

While I agree that the charge of £1 extra whilst paying drivers £2.78 per hour less, I would air on a side of caution to letting the 43 go back to a City route. It’s part of the CITYwest zone and an increased frequency is all thats required. Also if LCB do take on any of the 20/63/68 routes, these could be worked into the shifts. Although as we have heard First are yet to table their emergency timetable, there’s no guarantee that City of Edinburgh Council will find the provision offered to be adequate and may put the services up for re-tender.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Hoping to see increased frequency on the X18, an introduction of an N18 and also an increase to the 43’s which are at capacity most journeys throughout the day.

Im sure LCB will consider an N18 somepoint in the future, lord knows it’s overdue at this point.

If the 15 is going to be extended to Eastfield I suspect that they will be returning to Mari

I was under the impression Marine still ran the 15!

While I agree that the charge of £1 extra whilst paying drivers £2.78 per hour less, I would air on a side of caution to letting the 43 go back to a City route. It’s part of the CITYwest zone and an increased frequency is all thats required. Also if LCB do take on any of the 20/63/68 routes, these could be worked into the shifts. Although as we have heard First are yet to table their emergency timetable, there’s no guarantee that City of Edinburgh Council will find the provision offered to be adequate and may put the services up for re-tender.

I agree with that, plus if the 43 was to go back to city route then the entire LCB network will need redone and the city west zone scrapped which I doubt they’ll do at this stage, honestly I think the 43 is fine as it is for LCB and ridacards solve the problem for the extra fare anyway!

if LCB did take on the 20/63, (I’m sure the 68 could be covered by Longstone) I’m sure they would be able to free up some space, perhaps run a few buses from Newbridge to save time on milage.

 

[ScotRail158725]

174 now bearing a new full white paintjob. Also has had the wright symbol on the rear grill like the ex London B9s have

 

[Mickcloud9]

174 now bearing a new full white paintjob. Also has had the wright symbol on the rear grill like the ex London B9s have

Full white? Maybe awaiting decals for the training school?

 

[ScotRail158725]

I can only imagine the amount of mileage those B9TL ex London Geminis are doing. I also noticed the front screen on 932 recently has started to look very worn out and the LEDs not so bright.

932s screens have always been worn almost since it got them. The window laminate coming away doesn’t help its matters

 

[TheEastCoaster]

In all fairness, if the old 300 that ran to Cameron Toll can maintain a 20 minute frequency then the 200/400 has just as much of a right

 

[CN04NRJ]

I can only imagine the amount of mileage those B9TL ex London Geminis are doing. I also noticed the front screen on 932 recently has started to look very worn out and the LEDs not so bright.

If anything it should be 1-10 done away with, the 1 should really be operated by double decks as I see it with standing loads regularly (especially with the 22 cutback now). 1141-53 (minus 43) parked up and 201-215, seems a waste to have those parked while 1-10 are as reliable as ever.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

If anything it should be 1-10 done away with, the 1 should really be operated by double decks as I see it with standing loads regularly (especially with the 22 cutback now). 1141-53 (minus 43) parked up and 201-215, seems a waste to have those parked while 1-10 are as reliable as ever.

Completely agree with this. Ideally, with the 12 potentially heading to Marine, Central could use all of 1141-1153 for the 1 and 15. Then possibly 1001-1002 could go elsewhere, perhaps Marine? Then preferably sell off 1-10 which are just awful buses.

 

[InOban]

I can’t necessarily see an increase in frequency for the 400. The route is at its peak no more extensions are viable nor necessary

Actually there ought to be a direct bus service from East Lothian to the airport, After all there are frequent buses from North Edinburgh (200), South Edinburgh (400), Central (100 or tram ), Fife, and Glasgow with less frequent services from Dundee and Stirling. But no through services from beyond Kinnaird Park.

 

[Andyh82]

Have Gemini 2's 1143-1153 been withdrawn? They don't seem to have been used for a number of weeks

 

[Bus9120UK]

Have Gemini 2's 1143-1153 been withdrawn? They don't seem to have been used for a number of weeks

No, 1141/2 & 1144-1153 are in reserve. 1143 still being out is a clue, they wouldn't withdraw all but one that's in the middle of the batch.

 

[Andyh82]

What other buses are in reserve?

 

[Scotrail88]

Lothian usually announce changes as they appear on the TC website. Makes it sound like some big cuts that they want to keep under wraps until last minute.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Actually there ought to be a direct bus service from East Lothian to the airport, After all there are frequent buses from North Edinburgh (200), South Edinburgh (400), Central (100 or tram ), Fife, and Glasgow with less frequent services from Dundee and Stirling. But no through services from beyond Kinnaird Park.

And where have we heard that one before? Perhaps via the City bypass too…

 

[Darklord8899]

And where have we heard that one before? Perhaps via the City bypass too…

Oh yes, via the bypass to the Airport and extended to Ratho - a joint ECB Lothian city LCB venture starting Dunbar and operating via Haddington and Musselburgh

 

[computerSaysNo]

Hoping to see increased frequency on the X18

Did it ever have a frequency greater than half-hourly?

and also an increase to the 43’s which are at capacity most journeys throughout the day

Isn't it already at every 20 minutes? So they'd need to increase it to every 15.

Maybe some of the reserve fleet could get the green white and gold makeover…

I think it's more likely the reserve would go back to Lothian and some of Lothian's 1000-1050 be transferred to Country/East Coast.

I can only imagine the amount of mileage those B9TL ex London Geminis are doing.

As in they're doing a lot?
Are they particularly doing more than e.g. the vehicles with East Coast? Or the E400s at Stagecoach?

Even the interiors of the London Geminis are starting to look tatty now unfortunately.

Are they? The ones I've been on have all been fine but then I don't travel on them often.

I was under the impression Marine still ran the 15!

The 15 has been with Central since at least August 2021; it was probably there before that but I had a job that summer which I travelled to using the 15 so I only know for definite that it was with Central from then.
(and if you're interested at that point it used the 2011 Gemini 2s the majority of the time. My evaluation of them would be "comfortable but could do with the gearboxes being set to 'racing' rather than 'plodding'"! )

Actually there ought to be a direct bus service from East Lothian to the airport, After all there are frequent buses from North Edinburgh (200), South Edinburgh (400), Central (100 or tram ), Fife, and Glasgow with less frequent services from Dundee and Stirling. But no through services from beyond Kinnaird Park.

In an ideal world yes, but there are so many places in East Lothian such that you couldn't give them all a direct service using a single route, and there wouldn't be a demand for a dedicated bus from each of North Berwick, Dunbar, Musselburgh, Tranent, etc. to the airport. I think so long as the X5/X6/X7 exist, it would be fairly easy to get from East Lothian to the airport as you just do a same-stop change at Shandwick Place.

 

[Mickcloud9]

Did it ever have a frequency greater than half-hourly?

Isn't it already at every 20 minutes? So they'd need to increase it to every 15.

I think it's more likely the reserve would go back to Lothian and some of Lothian's 1000-1050 be transferred to Country/East Coast.

Not sure if the X18 has had a higher frequency than half hourly, but it is extremely busy, especially at peak times and the extra peak services aren’t helping much.

The 43 is every 20 mins, however with the gap given the re-route of the 41, the demand on the service is much higher than provision currently provides.

Given the condition of the ex-London B9’s and the B7RLE’s at LCB, there is a good chance the 1000-1050’s are in better condition. The 1000’s at LCB are doing far more mileage now than they ever did.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Did it ever have a frequency greater than half-hourly?

X18 was always half hourly

The 15 has been with Central since at least August 2021;

Been Central since it return after the first Lockdown

As in they're doing a lot?
Are they particularly doing more than e.g. the vehicles with East Coast? Or the E400s at Stagecoach?

One end to end trip on the X18/27/28 is nearly 30 miles, a good 8 or 9 of those journeys a day is way more than what vehicles on more urban based routes do. And take into consideration they were used on the 18 in London for their first 7 years, which is a high frequency 24 hour route where most of the batch were out 19-21 hours a day being rattled around London

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Lothian is a more relaxed operator compared to the London operators, I think such a big fleet is good for a company because buses won't do as big shifts as the Londoners. Don't get me wrong, they will still do a lot of hours and miles!

 

[ScotRail158725]

Lothian is a more relaxed operator compared to the London operators, I think such a big fleet is good for a company because buses won't do as big shifts as the Londoners. Don't get me wrong, they will still do a lot of hours and miles!

Lothian will obviously be more relaxed as Edinburgh is nowhere near as big as London and the population density in London is what causes routes to require 56 buses. They cover 6 routes here in Edinburgh when in London they were on a route that ran less that every 5 minutes and the whole batch was required for it

 

[computerSaysNo]

One end to end trip on the X18/27/28 is nearly 30 miles, a good 8 or 9 of those journeys a day is way more than what vehicles on more urban based routes do. And take into consideration they were used on the 18 in London for their first 7 years, which is a high frequency 24 hour route where most of the batch were out 19-21 hours a day being rattled around London

I get that, but B9s and similar are used on rural services in places in England are they not? So it's hardly unusual for them to be doing that sort of milage.
Arriva Northumberland run E400Classics between Newcastle and Berwick don't they? So that'll be rural work. I know Stagecoach Perth have/had E400Classics to use on the Crieff and Stirling runs which are rural. I imagine Stagecoach in England will have many rural routes operating with E400Classics purchased between 2007 and 2012.

I always thought vehicles in London would be relatively low mileage as I can't imagine they ever get above about 30mph.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Is there any news about the service update?