Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Well I remain hopeful that this new revised service will give the people of Duddingston and Causewayside a direct link to Portobello/City on Sundays and late evenings. only downside is the poor folk of Craigleith Centre only having the 38 to resort too, once the news gets out to the public I gather it’ll not have a super positive response.

Wonder what other service changes we could expect, hopefully an improvement on the 15

I wouldn’t be hopeful of an evening and Sunday service in the outgoing 42’s section and if I’m honest they may even remove the evening and Sunday service completely on the 12 too. If the evening and Sunday service is maintained I’d say it’ll probably still run Gyle-George Street only.

I’m not sure the loss of a link from Craigleith to Stockbridge will go down well with the shoppers. I remember when the 42 was cut from Davidson’s Mains that made the local press about the loss of a link to Craigleith/Stockbridge. I can’t imagine too many will be annoyed about the loss of link from Stockbridge to Bristo Square etc as whenever I see the 42 on Frederick Street it’s usually very quiet. If I’m honest though I’m surprised the City-Craigleith section has lasted as long as it has post lockdowns. I’m guessing it’ll have to be a 24/29 to Comely Bank Cemetery, cross the road and pick up the 38 for those that need to go to Craigleith and vice versa.

Hopefully the buses freed up from this result in either a more reliable service and/or potentially increases elsewhere.

 

[Auld reekie]

I wouldn’t be hopeful of an evening and Sunday service in the outgoing 42’s section and if I’m honest they may even remove the evening and Sunday service completely on the 12 too. If the evening and Sunday service is maintained I’d say it’ll probably still run Gyle-George Street only.

I’m not sure the loss of a link from Craigleith to Stockbridge will go down well with the shoppers. I remember when the 42 was cut from Davidson’s Mains that made the local press about the loss of a link to Craigleith/Stockbridge. I can’t imagine too many will be annoyed about the loss of link from Stockbridge to Bristo Square etc as whenever I see the 42 on Frederick Street it’s usually very quiet. If I’m honest though I’m surprised the City-Craigleith section has lasted as long as it has post lockdowns. I’m guessing it’ll have to be a 24/29 to Comely Bank Cemetery, cross the road and pick up the 38 for those that need to go to Craigleith and vice versa.

Hopefully the buses freed up from this result in either a more reliable service and/or potentially increases elsewhere.

I wouldn’t be hopeful of an evening and Sunday service in the outgoing 42’s section and if I’m honest they may even remove the evening and Sunday service completely on the 12 too. If the evening and Sunday service is maintained I’d say it’ll probably still run Gyle-George Street only.

I’m not sure the loss of a link from Craigleith to Stockbridge will go down well with the shoppers. I remember when the 42 was cut from Davidson’s Mains that made the local press about the loss of a link to Craigleith/Stockbridge. I can’t imagine too many will be annoyed about the loss of link from Stockbridge to Bristo Square etc as whenever I see the 42 on Frederick Street it’s usually very quiet. If I’m honest though I’m surprised the City-Craigleith section has lasted as long as it has post lockdowns. I’m guessing it’ll have to be a 24/29 to Comely Bank Cemetery, cross the road and pick up the 38 for those that need to go to Craigleith and vice versa.

Hopefully the buses freed up from this result in either a more reliable service and/or potentially increases elsewhere.

Maybe LB are going to takeover the 20/63/68 routes.

 

[ScotRail158725]

only downside is the poor folk of Craigleith Centre only having the 38 to resort too, once the news gets out to the public I gather it’ll not have a super positive response.

The 41 & 43 pass there too

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The 41 & 43 pass there too

They do admittedly pass there but crossing all of the roads bit by bit can at times take ages if you’re on the side that the Esso garage is on, plus the 3 or so minute walk to Sainsbury’s after that. Given the 42 on either the former or now outgoing section were mostly used by older passengers I can’t imagine that’s a suitable alternative for many. I know this was one of the alternatives Lothian offered the Davidson’s Mains passengers at the time and I can’t imagine the 41 is used that well for that purpose. Admittedly you could perhaps wait a few minutes on the 13 or 38 if the walk was too far but again they’re not the most frequent of routes and it is probably pot luck if you get a connection as good as that.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Maybe LB are going to takeover the 20/63/68 routes.

I think the 68 with most companies tends to run using short length buses, the problem is lothian don't have any

"Before somebody says "oh I have seen x bus on the 68", I have ridden the 68 many times and I can confirm it is a very tight route so would probably require a short bus, 8.9m-10.8m long probably.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Maybe LB are going to takeover the 20/63/68 routes.

I've heard it's possibly in the works, just canteen talk so take it as you will.

Could see Country doing the 63 and maybe the 22 extending to Ratho and run with single decks?

 

[stevenedin]

I've heard it's possibly in the works, just canteen talk so take it as you will.

Could see Country doing the 63 and maybe the 22 extending to Ratho and run with single decks?

To solve both problems the 22 could run Ratho - Craigleith Retail Park it could run via the old 12 route to Gyle and then the 22 route to Princes Street then up Frederick Street running the 42 route.

 

[mb88]

I think the 68 with most companies tends to run using short length buses, the problem is lothian don't have any

"Before somebody says "oh I have seen x bus on the 68", I have ridden the 68 many times and I can confirm it is a very tight route so would probably require a short bus, 8.9m-10.8m long probably.

I seem to recall when First took it on there were a few issues when they tried to put a Streetlite on it and it got itself into a bit of bother on one of the tighter sections of the route.

 

[stevenedin]

I seem to recall when First took it on there were a few issues when they tried to put a Streetlite on it and it got itself into a bit of bother on one of the tighter sections of the route.

I think that the shorter StreetLites may be better for the route.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

If lothian placed an order for articulated buses would they probably be for the 30?

Going by Edinburgh's road network, it seems like an ideal city for bendy buses although I'm not familiar with the suburbs and turning circles for termini where there could be operational difficulties for such vehicles.

 

[scosutsut]

Going by Edinburgh's road network, it seems like an ideal city for bendy buses although I'm not familiar with the suburbs and turning circles for termini where there could be operational difficulties for such vehicles.

Only for routes that need capacity and don't support double deckers, which is covered a page or two back are only a small handful.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I've heard it's possibly in the works, just canteen talk so take it as you will.

Could see Country doing the 63 and maybe the 22 extending to Ratho and run with single decks?

I’m not sure about the 22 to Ratho. It certainly would give it another purpose and it certainly would offer a faster way of getting to the city. I think the council would probably rather the 20 was retained in full, even if it does mean there’s no direct route to the city. Although in my opinion with the likelihood that the 12 is reducing to every 30 minutes it does still leave a possibility of the 12 doing Ratho. For me the 20 could probably do Gyle-Chesser and it would be fine. Basically go back to how it was about 10 years ago. Having said that, with the chance that the evening and Sunday service on the 12 may go, this might actually not be possible - unless Longstone did a shuttle 12 on evenings and Sundays. Time will tell what does happen and what may be possible with the contracts.

I agree, LC doing the 63 does seem realistic. The 280 would likely have to return to double decks or perhaps LC could gain 10195-10199 (repainted/renumbered of course)? 171 I think is used as a familiarisation bus by LC and 172-173 remain VOR so they could be options too, that’s if they don’t follow 174-175 in becoming trainers.

One thing I’m not sure has been brought up (apologies if it has), is with Ratho now being in LC’s CityWEST zone might this have any impact on Lothian operating a Ratho service again? To be fair I’m not sure £2.80 from Ratho to the Gyle is value for money, but £2.80 from Ratho to the city centre probably is.

 

[stevenedin]

One thing I’m not sure has been brought up (apologies if it has), is with Ratho now being in LC’s CityWEST zone might this have any impact on Lothian operating a Ratho service again? To be fair I’m not sure £2.80 from Ratho to the Gyle is value for money, but £2.80 from Ratho to the city centre probably is.

I guess anything is possible. I find even £2.80 from Deans (X28 or 280) or Eliburn (280) to Bathgate quite expensive as well but I guess people will pay it to have a bus.

 

[mb88]

I guess anything is possible. I find even £2.80 from Deans (X28 or 280) or Eliburn (280) to Bathgate quite expensive as well but I guess people will pay it to have a bus.

Indeed. Or £2.80 to go from Blackridge to Armadale. There should just be one zone covering the whole of West Lothian in my opinion.

 

[InOban]

When in Edinburgh I stay I a flat on what is now the 42. Since it was reduced first to a 20 and now a 30 minute service I never use it, I walk through to Minto Street for frequent buses to every part of Edinburgh. In a city a 30 minute service is pointless. Now if they extended this new 12 from Gyle to the airport...., then I might to save changing buses to get there.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

One thing I’m not sure has been brought up (apologies if it has), is with Ratho now being in LC’s CityWEST zone might this have any impact on Lothian operating a Ratho service again? To be fair I’m not sure £2.80 from Ratho to the Gyle is value for money, but £2.80 from Ratho to the city centre probably is.

That’s why I kept saying if the 22 is going anywhere near Ratho it would most likely be in Green and Cream colours!

They’ll justify the fares by pushing Ridacards on residents, well anyone between 23-59 anyway that’s not eligable for free travel regardless!

But yeah besides that I highly doubt I’ll see Lothian go beyond Ingilston again unless It’s LCB coloured, and even so I think the tendered routes would be good for them, especially trying to win back Ratho and Kirkliston.

I’m not sure about the 22 to Ratho. It certainly would give it another purpose and it certainly would offer a faster way of getting to the city. I think the council would probably rather the 20 was retained in full, even if it does mean there’s no direct route to the city. Although in my opinion with the likelihood that the 12 is reducing to every 30 minutes it does still leave a possibility of the 12 doing Ratho. For me the 20 could probably do Gyle-Chesser and it would be fine. Basically go back to how it was about 10 years ago. Having said that, with the chance that the evening and Sunday service on the 12 may go, this might actually not be possible - unless Longstone did a shuttle 12 on evenings and Sundays. Time will tell what does happen and what may be possible with the contracts.

I think the 12 would be long enough as it is combining both the routes, unless Lothian say otherwise I’m sure there will be a Sunday service running out to Portobello (at least more likely than an evening service but I’m willing to be surprised)

Also

• Registration numberPM0000002/4
• Licence NumberPM0000002
• Variation number49
• StatusVariation
• Service number.15
• Service typeNormal Stopping
• Start pointPenicuik Deanburn
• Finish pointEastfield Terminus
• Via
• Date received29 Jul 2022
• Effective date11 Sep 2022
• End date
• Supported by subsidies?In Part
• Local authorities covered by routeEast Lothian Council
• The City of Edinburgh Council
• Midlothian Council
• TAOs covered by routeScotland

I’m guessing service changes will be announced soon since this is meant to take effect in 5 weeks

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Also

• Registration numberPM0000002/4
• Licence NumberPM0000002
• Variation number49
• StatusVariation
• Service number.15
• Service typeNormal Stopping
• Start pointPenicuik Deanburn
• Finish pointEastfield Terminus
• Via
• Date received29 Jul 2022
• Effective date11 Sep 2022
• End date
• Supported by subsidies?In Part
• Local authorities covered by routeEast Lothian Council
• The City of Edinburgh Council
• Midlothian Council
• TAOs covered by routeScotland

I’m guessing service changes will be announced soon since this is meant to take effect in 5 weeks

I wouldn’t be sure that this is the 15 back in full as the current registration (Variation 48) has Penicuik-Easfield on it. I could wrong be I suspect it’s more likely that this will remain as Easter Bush to the City Centre. I’m hopeful that it will revert back to the full route but I’m not sure.


So far changes have been registered to the following: 2, N3, 11, 12 (cancelled and reregistered), 14, 15, 21, 25, N25, 26, 33, X33, 34, 35, 37, X37, 38, 41, X44, 49, 200 and 400. In addition to this the 42 and 300 have been cancelled (ie withdrawn). For ECB at the minute only the 140 has a change listed. No changes have been made to LC so far.

The fact all of the Skylinks are changing will hopefully lead to some increases on the 200 or 400 given the 300’s withdrawal. If neither the 200 or 400 increases I wonder if they may even opt to paint a couple of the current ones into standard as 4 spares for a PVR of 11 seems a bit much? That or we might see the Skylinks venture onto normal routes more often again.

 

[Bus9120UK]

That’s why I kept saying if the 22 is going anywhere near Ratho it would most likely be in Green and Cream colours!

By the time they'd do it (if it happens which is obviously more than unlikely) I bet the whole Lothiancountry fleet would be in the new green and white colourscheme!

No changes have been made to ECB or LC so far.

The 140 has had a variation made to it's registration too.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I wouldn’t be sure that this is the 15 back in full as the current registration (Variation 48) has Penicuik-Easfield on it. I could wrong be I suspect it’s more likely that this will remain as Easter Bush to the City Centre. I’m hopeful that it will revert back to the full route but I’m not sure.


So far changes have been registered to the following: 2, 11, 12 (cancelled and reregistered), 14, 15, 21, 25, N25, 26, X33, 34, 35, 38, 41, X44, 200 and 400. In addition to this the 42 and 300 have been cancelled (ie withdrawn). No changes have been made to ECB or LC so far.

The fact all of the Skylinks are changing will hopefully lead to some increases on the 200 or 400 given the 300’s withdrawal. If neither the 200 or 400 increases I wonder if they may even opt to paint a couple of the current ones into standard as 4 spares for a PVR of 11 seems a bit much? That or we might see the Skylinks venture onto normal routes more often again.

I can only hope that the 15 returns to its full route, when the 124 came out of Portobello it seemed like the perfect opportunity to extend it but sadly no.

As said before I could see the 400 maybe going up to 20 minutes, it’s always super busy whenever I’m on, unless the 200/400 get extended where it requires extra buses to keep the frequency. But I don’t see them extending the 200 till at least the tram works finish in Leith, maybe to Eastfield? and the 400 could do Newcraighall

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The 140 has had a variation made to it's registration too.

So it has. Thanks for noticing that. A few others have come through so I’ll update the list accordingly.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The 140 has had a variation made to it's registration too.

Maybe the last journey withdrawn? i remember They introduced it but I don’t stay in Midlothian so I can’t comment on how busy it could be, unless its extended to Deanburn? (Poor Ladywood never gets any extra services)

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Maybe the last journey withdrawn? i remember They introduced it but I don’t stay in Midlothian so I can’t comment on how busy it could be, unless its extended to Deanburn? (Poor Ladywood never gets any extra services)

From memory variations are usually not often much changes, so I’d expect it to be something like minor retimings here and there. The registrations are typically full scale timetable changes etc/reroutings/extra journeys. A good chance that’s wrong though. Again VOSA is never the best to get the information from so it’ll only be clear once the information is released to the public.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Also

• Registration numberPM0000002/4
• Licence NumberPM0000002
• Variation number49
• StatusVariation
• Service number.15
• Service typeNormal Stopping
• Start pointPenicuik Deanburn
• Finish pointEastfield Terminus
• Via
• Date received29 Jul 2022
• Effective date11 Sep 2022
• End date
• Supported by subsidies?In Part
• Local authorities covered by routeEast Lothian Council
• The City of Edinburgh Council
• Midlothian Council
• TAOs covered by routeScotland

Eastfield is still within City Council isn't it? So shouldn't it just be Midlothian and City areas?

 

[stevenedin]

Eastfield is still within City Council isn't it? So shouldn't it just be Midlothian and City areas?

Eastfield is in Edinburgh. Maybe they forgot to change it since the 15 used to go to Tranent.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Eastfield is in Edinburgh. Maybe they forgot to change it since the 15 used to go to Tranent.

Ahh okay, thanks.

 

[InOban]

That’s why I kept saying if the 22 is going anywhere near Ratho it would most likely be in Green and Cream colours!

They’ll justify the fares by pushing Ridacards on residents, well anyone between 23-59 anyway that’s not eligable for free travel regardless!

But yeah besides that I highly doubt I’ll see Lothian go beyond Ingilston again unless It’s LCB coloured, and even so I think the tendered routes would be good for them, especially trying to win back Ratho and Kirkliston.



I think the 12 would be long enough as it is combining both the routes, unless Lothian say otherwise I’m sure there will be a Sunday service running out to Portobello (at least more likely than an evening service but I’m willing to be surprised)

Also

• Registration numberPM0000002/4
• Licence NumberPM0000002
• Variation number49
• StatusVariation
• Service number.15
• Service typeNormal Stopping
• Start pointPenicuik Deanburn
• Finish pointEastfield Terminus
• Via
• Date received29 Jul 2022
• Effective date11 Sep 2022
• End date
• Supported by subsidies?In Part
• Local authorities covered by routeEast Lothian Council
• The City of Edinburgh Council
• Midlothian Council
• TAOs covered by routeScotland

I’m guessing service changes will be announced soon since this is meant to take effect in 5 weeks

Surely since Ratho, like Kirkliston and S Queensferry, is within the City boundary, it should be LB rather than LCB?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Surely since Ratho, like Kirkliston and S Queensferry, is within the City boundary, it should be LB rather than LCB?

Yeah but as stated above Ratho lies within the CityWest zone introduced by LCB and I imagine to keep it consistent Lothian would run all of their services under the same fare scructure.

Eastfield is in Edinburgh. Maybe they forgot to change it since the 15 used to go to Tranent.

The 15 hasn’t served Tranent since.. 2009? it’s been over a decade, i‘m sure they would of updated it by then

 

[ScotRail158725]

and the 400 could do Newcraighall

This suggestion keeps coming up for some reason, extending it to Newcraighall would give an already unreliable route about a 5 minute turnaround. It wouldn’t be sustainable even if it it had its Airport turnaround shortened

 

[TheEastCoaster]

This suggestion keeps coming up for some reason, extending it to Newcraighall would give an already unreliable route about a 5 minute turnaround. It wouldn’t be sustainable even if it it had its Airport turnaround shortened

Well if the 400 goes up to every 15-20 minutes then it could work? Either that or extend it to Musselburgh via the A1 and QMU.

At the end of the day I’d rather a more frequent 400 then an extension!

 

[ScotRail158725]

Well if the 400 goes up to every 15-20 minutes then it could work? Either that or extend it to Musselburgh via the A1 and QMU.

At the end of the day I’d rather a more frequent 400 then an extension!

I can’t necessarily see an increase in frequency for the 400. The route is at its peak no more extensions are viable nor necessary