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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

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I think we'll see the current ones carry on until what's in the works come to fruition. I'm very much of the opinion that all the current ones could do with an external refurbishment and maybe new (more modern) branding.
The current livery is fine but they could do with resprays with the current application if they do end up staying and maybe pad the interior seats again. I'm under the impression that the reason why 1128-1130 were wrapped is so when they do end up being painted they can just add the madder inside Seafield Works during a heavy refurbishment to standardise the interior.
 
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FlybeDash8Q400

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I think we'll see the current ones carry on until what's in the works come to fruition. I'm very much of the opinion that all the current ones could do with an external refurbishment and maybe new (more modern) branding.
I guess that’s the issue though. If they intend on replacing them within 2 years (I still have my doubts on 2025), then is it really worthwhile to refurbish them? Given the fact they’ll have to be changed to city spec they come off Airlink anyway, it doesn’t seem the most financially viable thing to do. I love the idea of a tri-axle BZL though and hope that it does happen. Wouldn’t it be really heavy though?
 

CN04NRJ

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I guess that’s the issue though. If they intend on replacing them within 2 years (I still have my doubts on 2025), then is it really worthwhile to refurbish them? Given the fact they’ll have to be changed to city spec they come off Airlink anyway, it doesn’t seem the most financially viable thing to do. I love the idea of a tri-axle BZL though and hope that it does happen. Wouldn’t it be really heavy though?

I was told that whatever the project is that's being worked on, weight/axle weights are an issue to be resolved.
 
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On the subject of Eve Coaches and people wanting the 120, 121, 123 & 130 to become East Coast Buses routes, it's actually impossible because of the 123. It serves Pencaitland and Haddington in a circle which would mean jumping in and out of zones which would charge the passenger more. It makes sense to keep them as Eve because they run rural routes in East Lothian compared to East Coast's more express routes.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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On the subject of Eve Coaches and people wanting the 120, 121, 123 & 130 to become East Coast Buses routes, it's actually impossible because of the 123. It serves Pencaitland and Haddington in a circle which would mean jumping in and out of zones which would charge the passenger more. It makes sense to keep them as Eve because they run rural routes in East Lothian compared to East Coast's more express routes.
There’s a quite easy solution to that. Charge a 1 or 2 zone single. A bit like what Lothian Country have recently done to the 43. If you just had a simple ‘1 or 2 zones’ set at £2 single, rather than the current ‘1 (or 2 if it is Zone A to B)’. Then the 2 or 3 zone fare simply becomes a 3 zone fare.

The plus to this is it lowers the pretty harsh fares for short distances, such as Ormiston to Tranent. Something many residents were furious about when it went up.
 

GusB

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Apologies for the brief thread closure; it was going off on a couple of different tangents and it's easier to manage things when people aren't adding to a live thread.

A couple of interesting topics have arisen, both of which have been moved to separate threads.

The hypothetical "What if Lothian was privatised?" has been moved here:

Speculation about potential franchising is here:
 
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endecotp

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Lovely story about an Australian couple living in a converted Lothian number 16 bus:

Eight months ago, the Australian couple decided to live aboard the 1960’s Leyland Atlantean after discovering it online, decaying in a garden.

It has now been reborn more than 9,500 miles from its daily route, winding its way through Edinburgh from Bonaly at the foot of the Pentland Hills to Silverknowes.
 
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VioletEclipse

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Lovely story about an Australian couple living in a converted Lothian number 16 bus:

Ah so that's where old 812 ended up!

a lovely story indeed, and what I'm most suprised by is that it's still driving, I was fully expecting it to be static.

Imagine having grown up here, moving to Australia and then seeing a Lothian Atlantean screened for the 16 drive past you!
 

CN04NRJ

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Any update on the Volvo EVs arriving?

Seems like a false start few weeks back.

Last seen at MCV Cambridgeshire having interior refits as not they're not being built to spec. I imagine it'll be a little while yet.

I heard a rumour that the 22 and possibly another route may be moving to Longstone due to reduced parking capacity at central with the electric buses.
 

Bus9120UK

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Last seen at MCV Cambridgeshire having interior refits as not built to spec, imagine it'll be a little while yet.

I heard a rumour that the 22 and possibly another route may be moving to longstone due to reduced parking capacity at central with the electric buses.
It'd be interesting as to how the timetable would be adjusted if this happened. At present, only one bus in the morning starts from the Gyle with the rest starting from Granton/Elm Row all running towards the Gyle. In the evening, buses only terminate at Elm Row and Granton, coming from the Gyle. There is also a peak journey in the morning doing a singular round trip from Granton at the moment. A transfer to Longstone may eliminate the 22A as well.

I can't see any other route options other than the 23, but I would expect that to be one of the routes operated by the BZLs.

On another note, all buses in the fleet (minus 1109, TB1-TB7 and possibly 232 and 932) should now have new AVLs fitted. Can't be long before the switch to the new system which would hopefully stop the need for control manually signing in each buses? I think they were also keen to finish them for the bus stop displays, so hopefully those go live in due course as well.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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I heard a rumour that the 22 and possibly another route may be moving to longstone due to reduced parking capacity at central with the electric buses.
I mean this would make sense, though it would leave issues for the early morning runs, particularly those runs on the 22A which may make sense to keep at Central.

By this I mean a Central bus does a 22A to the Gyle, then goes off service to East Craigs or Cammo to do a 31 or 47/47B. The Longstone 22 bus could then just start from Broomhouse towards Granton.

The only other route that could realistically move would be the 2 and I think there’s a whole different issue there with that being on the single deck rota.
 

computerSaysNo

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I heard a rumour that the 22 and possibly another route may be moving to longstone due to reduced parking capacity at central with the electric buses.
It would make sense to me to transfer all of 426-437 as the 22 currently uses those and then that keeps the batch together. To use up the rest of them in service it would need to be a fairly short route. Could the 1 transfer, go to double deckers and get a frequency reduction back to every 15 minutes?
Or the 27? As both termini are in the west of the city.
A transfer to Longstone may eliminate the 22A as well.
I thought the 22A was to serve the businesses near South Gyle Crescent in the early morning before the 12 and 400 go through that area?
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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It would make sense to me to transfer all of 426-437 as the 22 currently uses those and then that keeps the batch together. To use up the rest of them in service it would need to be a fairly short route. Could the 1 transfer, go to double deckers and get a frequency reduction back to every 15 minutes?
Or the 27? As both termini are in the west of the city.
The 1 is reportedly a high candidate for BZL operation, so the chances it moves are low. The 27 doesn’t really go anywhere near Longstone and again is potentially lined up for BZL’s.

I don’t think there’s a need to move all of 426-437 to Longstone. The 22 only needs 6 buses plus an extra in the peak. You could argue the 22 could probably get away with using the ex London B9TL’s to be honest. It’s rarely full now as it barely touches the City Centre.

Central already has a few mmc’s too many in my opinion so if you moved its 3 ex London’s (1000, 1002 and 1003) plus a few mmc’s (670-672) all to Longstone then I think that would probably work. Using ex London’s on the 34 and 35 isn’t ideal and this would likely eliminate that as it has a gain of 3 mmc’s. Central only needs 22 mmc’s for the 3 routes that primarily use them (8, 9 and 37). This would still leave Central with 4 spares. I’m sure the 8 and 9 could cope with the odd 11 plate B9TL if it came to it.
 

computerSaysNo

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The 1 is reportedly a high candidate for BZL operation.
Is it? I know it sometimes gets the BZL demonstrator, but the 1 is scheduled for single deckers.
The 27 doesn’t really go anywhere near Longstone
I know, but both ends are in that area of the city, compared to for example the 7.
and again is potentially lined up for BZL’s.
Is it? I've only noticed the E400EVs on the 8 and 9 but then I don't follow them closely.
 

Lx008

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The 8 and 9 have always been the prime candidates for the BZLs as they are quite a bit shorter than most of the other central routes.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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The 8 and 9 have always been the prime candidates for the BZLs as they are quite a bit shorter than most of the other central routes.
The 8 and 9 will probably receive the first batch when they enter service. Other candidates are the 1, 7, 10, 23, 24 and 27. However at least one, probably two of these routes will need to miss out as it’s too many. For me the 1 and 7 are the routes to miss out and the 10, 23, 24 and 27 pick up the rest, but time will tell what happens. If you add that altogether it’s just under 50 Electric buses out of 54 or 55 (depending on 997’s future) if it happens. I think 291-294 will find themselves mostly on the 9 or 24 going forward though as their capacity and range I think is slightly less favourable.
 

CN04NRJ

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The 8 and 9 will probably receive the first batch when they enter service. Other candidates are the 1, 7, 10, 23, 24 and 27. However at least one, probably two of these routes will need to miss out as it’s too many. For me the 1 and 7 are the routes to miss out and the 10, 23, 24 and 27 pick up the rest, but time will tell what happens. If you add that altogether it’s just under 50 Electric buses out of 54 or 55 (depending on 997’s future) if it happens. I think 291-294 will find themselves mostly on the 9 or 24 going forward though as their capacity and range I think is slightly less favourable.

A good use for two of them would be to put chargers in at marine and use them for the Uni shuttles, that would see off 905-6. Perhaps the other two could be used as shuttle vehicles for drivers, can't think of a better way to use a BYD!
 

Resuwen

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I know the BYD chassis is unpopular with some, but the Alexander City body is the best looking vehicle in the fleet. If they were in Lothian livery rather than Scottish Power, they’d be stunning
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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A good use for two of them would be to put chargers in at marine and use them for the Uni shuttles, that would see off 905-6. Perhaps the other two could be used as shuttle vehicles for drivers, can't think of a better way to use a BYD!
I mean, that’s not a bad idea to be fair. The Uni Shuttle could do with having a 3rd bus anyway and then just leave the 4th as a spare. The timings on it are a bit of a mess, there’s no consistent frequency from what I was told.
 

Bus9120UK

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Have we as yet got an answer as to whether 997 is just back for familiarisation or if it’s a permanent addition?
It was brought back many months ago, if not half a year ago now, for familiarization but was reintroduced to service to reach peak vehicle requirements after the addition of the West Edinburgh contract services. 929/30 and 1050 were cascaded to West Lothian with 997 and 1152/3 being put in service. Its not a permanent addition at this time.
 

paul47B

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I had a ride on the new 32 today. I boarded at Gyle Centre at 3:05 pm and got off in Cramond. 11 boarded at Gyle Centre and there were already lots of passengers on board. There were only 4 empty seats. Bus 17 did the job. Barnton and Maybury junctions are going to be a bit of a problem for this service. Good to have the link again between Gyle and Barnton.
 

stantheman

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I had a ride on the new 32 today. I boarded at Gyle Centre at 3:05 pm and got off in Cramond. 11 boarded at Gyle Centre and there were already lots of passengers on board. There were only 4 empty seats. Bus 17 did the job. Barnton and Maybury junctions are going to be a bit of a problem for this service. Good to have the link again between Gyle and Barnton.
Pretty empty in Balerno when seen ..,and always late . Is the terminus in Cramond shared with any other services ?
 

smsm1

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There is this mindset of people in Edinburgh that if it’s not a Lothian bus, it doesn’t exist and as unfortunate as that is, at least now they have a Lothian route here.
I suspect some of it comes from the pricing structure, or rather lack of cross operator ticketing, or more specifically tap tap cap style cross operator ticketing. Granted there is OneTicket and Plus bus. One ticket is hard to get and only really useful when going out of Edinburgh. Doesn't work for day tickets including trains. Plus bus needs a train ticket too.
 

stevenedin

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I suspect some of it comes from the pricing structure, or rather lack of cross operator ticketing, or more specifically tap tap cap style cross operator ticketing. Granted there is OneTicket and Plus bus. One ticket is hard to get and only really useful when going out of Edinburgh. Doesn't work for day tickets including trains. Plus bus needs a train ticket too.
One Ticket does do Day Tickets but it is slightly more expensive than a Lothian day ticket but if using different operators it can be worthwhile.
 

computerSaysNo

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How is the X5 performing at the moment with all the ScotRail cancellations on the North Berwick line? It would be good if the X5 could be improved to either run more frequently or to have a later finish in the day.
 

Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
A good use for two of them would be to put chargers in at marine and use them for the Uni shuttles, that would see off 905-6. Perhaps the other two could be used as shuttle vehicles for drivers, can't think of a better way to use a BYD!
I would personally sell them as they are non-standard but still have a good amount of value
Some people like them personally I don't
 

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