Masks again

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Darandio

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Well the vaccine significantly reduces the chance of being severely affected by Coronavirus. You sound a bit like an anti-vaxxer here.

Bit it was our way out of this, remember? And how on earth can you have both of your vaccines and be an anti-vaxxer? You people make no sense.
 
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yorkie

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But authoritarians enjoy seeing symbols of compliance, that’s the reality here.
That is true which is why I won't be wearing a face covering. I hope as many people as possible make the same choice.
Maybe, maybe not.

Either way, the post I replied to stated it was an either / or scenario - wear a mask in a shop or wear a mask in ICU - which is absolutely inaccurate and incorrect.
Indeed; It's a false dichotomy.
 

adc82140

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Where have I said they have no right to go out? All I've said is effectively mask up.

What would you rather do: wear a mask to go to a shop or end up having to wear a mask in ICU
You have said that they should "mask up", which some disabled people cannot do.

Please don't patronise me with the "mask on ICU" nonsense. I'm a healthcare professional. I know my way round an ITU. There is absolutely no equivalence between wearing a manky bit of cloth and your chances, which are infinitesimally small if you have no underlying health conditions, of ending up in there.
 

4-SUB 4732

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I appear to be in good company here.

I have absolutely no interest in listening to any of this. But to take it from, say, Monday (?), 3 weeks means it’s just in time to do what they did last year and last-minute destroy Christmas. Absolutely no chance of that either.

These idiots are now on a hiding to nothing and really need to sit down. The documentation from Botswana and South Africa is clear enough - it’s a variant but it’s not evidentially worse than Delta or anything else.

But the usual suspects will say it’s all about protecting the NHS when the Government have done nothing in the last 9 months.
 

alex397

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If you want to be protected against transmission, and distrust the vaccines for some reason, you can choose to wear a highly effective, tight fitting, FFP3 mask which provides pretty much 100% protection, or an FFP2 which is almost as good.
I do wear an FFP2 mask.
I also hope you’re aware that having the vaccine doesn’t make you immune from catching the virus or passing it on.
 

bramling

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At least he did say it was temporary (review in 3 weeks). Even if it does go beyond 3 weeks, I don't think there is any danger of it becoming permanent. I was worried it would end up being permanent, before they dropped it in July.

It seems to be doing a fairly good job of being permanent each winter, at least.
 

DustyBin

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It reduces the risk.

Any reduction is demonstrably vanishingly small.

I try and avoid analogies but think of it as being similar to lowering all speed limits by 1mph. I’ll accept that at some point, somebody, somewhere, may benefit in the event of an accident. It would require a very specific, highly unlikely set of circumstances however. The potential benefit is beyond statistically insignificant and of absolutely no benefit at population level so it’s deemed pointless. Just like masks.
 

yorkie

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Maybe, maybe not.

Either way, the post I replied to stated it was an either / or scenario - wear a mask in a shop or wear a mask in ICU - which is absolutely inaccurate and incorrect.
Indeed; It's a false dichotomy.
Well the vaccine significantly reduces the chance of being severely affected by Coronavirus. You sound a bit like an anti-vaxxer here.
People who advocate the wearing of flimsy masks by vaccinated individuals are the ones who are denying the effectiveness of vaccines as far as I can see.
 

Dave91131

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Well the vaccine significantly reduces the chance of being severely affected by Coronavirus. You sound a bit like an anti-vaxxer here.

I think the frustration for many will be the fact that it was said on several occasions at previous press conferences (a quick Google should find a few) "these vaccines are our way back to a normal life".

That doesn't tie in with this evening's press conference.
 

4-SUB 4732

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So what the **** was the point of getting vaccinated then? I shouldn't have wasted my ****ing time. And I definitely won't go going for the so-called booster.
And if you’re like me and read between the lines, the chatter about 100 days to an Omicron booster suggests what we should expect: a 3 month lockdown until it rolls out.
 

Bungle73

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Well the vaccine significantly reduces the chance of being severely affected by Coronavirus. You sound a bit like an anti-vaxxer here.
You know what I don't even care I'm sick of being lied to. I won't be complying this time.
 

HSTEd

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Masks until at least next summer.

When they achieve nothing they will get to the next thing in their toolbox, and then rinse and repeat until lockdown before Christmas.
 

brad465

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I think in that case he'll be very disappointed. He's just destroyed one of his few selling points - that he'd managed to negotiate over the course of 2021, via an 'irreversible' but slow roadmap, our way out of this. Instead we see all too clearly that restrictions can be reintroduced at the drop of a hat at any time.
That is possible and I would hope so, and "Peppa Pig world" was a dead cat speech that seemed to backfire in some ways so wouldn't be the first. We'll have to wait a few more days though to see the fallout, but I think it's safe to say anyone who praised Johnson for removing all restrictions will immediately be disappointed with him as you allude to.

At least he did say it was temporary (review in 3 weeks). Even if it does go beyond 3 weeks, I don't think there is any danger of it becoming permanent. I was worried it would end up being permanent, before they dropped it in July.
If the daily covid stats improve he'll struggle to retain justification, especially if this variant turns out to not be so bad as is being made out in the press. Interestingly while daily cases are still going up, deaths and hospital admissions are still declining and have been longer than usual, which makes me wonder if the booster programme effects are starting to show?
 

yorkie

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So why were places such as Wales and Scotland where masks were still mandatory doing worse than England?
The pro mask brigade refuse to answer this question. I would like to see them give it a go, so I can debunk their false claims.
That is possible and I would hope so, and "Peppa Pig world" was a dead cat speech that seemed to backfire in some ways so wouldn't be the first. We'll have to wait a few more days though to see the fallout, but I think it's safe to say anyone who praised Johnson for removing all restrictions will immediately be disappointed with him as you allude to.


If the daily covid stats improve he'll struggle to retain justification, especially if this variant turns out to not be so bad as is being made out in the press. Interestingly while daily cases are still going up, deaths and hospital admissions are still declining and have been longer than usual, which makes me wonder if the booster programme effects are starting to show?
Indeed the stats are all heading in the right direction before this ludicrous change. The pro mask, vaccine efficacy deniers will try to get masks to take the credit, rather than our increasing levels of population immunity, which is absurd.
 

4-SUB 4732

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I do wear an FFP2 mask.
I also hope you’re aware that having the vaccine doesn’t make you immune from catching the virus or passing it on.
Quite. So in reality, if this is vaccine-resistant, it makes the whole thing pointless as we worked for nothing. That will probably be enough for people to say “Oh balls to it” this time and just ignore it. I hope the 1922 Committee get their signatures, and the Tory big names get the message. It’s over, the public have told them it’s over.
 

Berliner

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The UK. Where face masks are mandatory, unless you're in some settings indoors with crowds, you can buy a lanyard or just say you're exempt because no one has the power to tell you otherwise or even ask for proof. What a country!

On the other hand, if masks were so effective then they would be actually mandatory, no exemptions, no excuses, like they are in some countries. I don't even mind wearing one, doesn't bother me one bit, but it is completely pointless here when so many can just get out of it.

Anyway, are people still adamant vaccine passports won't make an appearance in England?
 

Jonny

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I think there should be a minimum standard of mask.
Some are nothing more than a hanky, which makes it pointless.
Same too for those who wear the same dogeared mask for weeks on end.

Some of those are breathing their own bacteria back in, which does not help. Doubly so if fungal spores build up.
Personally, I have a lot more faith in the vaccines, and a lot less faith in the efficacy of face coverings.

My view is that in the unlikely (but not impossible) event that I do end up in ICU as a result of COVID, face coverings will have made little difference to that outcome.
Personally I do not trust either masks or vaccines. Yes there is a real virus, but its dangers are vastly exaggerated.

But authoritarians enjoy seeing symbols of compliance, that’s the reality here.
I think that is a lot of the problem.

So what the **** was the point of getting vaccinated then? I shouldn't have wasted my ****ing time. And I definitely won't go going for the so-called booster.
Good point. It's just my personal opinion, but I call them the vacc-ebo (vaccine placebo). I'm passing on the jab and I don't ask anyone else to protect me. The deaths as a percentage of population are extremely low, bearing in mind a <100 year lifespan then survival odds of 99.9%+ based on the death rate as a portion of population and allowing for age, the statistics sound pretty good without a vaccine.
The pro mask brigade refuse to answer this question. I would like to see them give it a go, so I can debunk their false claims.
Perhaps because ^in the field^, they don't work. Leakage through and around the sides makes them almost (if not) useless anyway.
 

DustyBin

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Well the vaccine significantly reduces the chance of being severely affected by Coronavirus. You sound a bit like an anti-vaxxer here.

He sounds more like somebody who got vaccinated on the basis it would lead to permanent freedom from restrictions, the same as a lot of other people did. Clearly they were lied to and have every right to be angry.
 

WM Bus

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Not tough enough. Exemptions need to be removed, remember we're all I this together.
Shouldn't happen and the equalities act would prevent it presumably.
Nobody should be discriminated against due to a protected characteristic.

The statement "all in it together" completely contrasts the earlier statement you made in regards to disabled people.
 
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alex397

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He sounds more like somebody who got vaccinated on the basis it would lead to permanent freedom from restrictions, the same as a lot of other people did. Clearly they were lied to and have every right to be angry.
The point of the vaccine is to protect you from the virus.
 

brad465

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That is true which is why I won't be wearing a face covering. I hope as many people as possible make the same choice.

Indeed; It's a false dichotomy.
I wouldn't be surprised if, despite the mandate returning, enforcement is low. Mask use was already declining before mid-July this year and not often enforced, and we know TfL enforcement and compliance has been low to the point of a pointless mandate/requirement, and I reckon several months of no mandate will make would-be enforcers fearful to trying to intervene, but we'll have to see.
 

4-SUB 4732

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The pro mask brigade refuse to answer this question. I would like to see them give it a go, so I can debunk their false claims.
Mask mandates, vaccine passports and such are working sooooo well in Austria, Germany and France. It’s almost as if the thing will spread whatever you do so you might as well just hope for the best?
 

bramling

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I wouldn't be surprised if, despite the mandate returning, enforcement is low. Mask use was already declining before mid-July this year and not often enforced, and we know TfL enforcement and compliance has been low to the point of a pointless mandate/requirement, and I reckon several months of no mandate will make would-be enforcers fearful to trying to intervene, but we'll have to see.

I can’t see BTP being particularly enthusiastic. In the main they weren’t that interested last time round, with the odd exception.

We’ll simply be back to the usual passive aggressive stuff, and perhaps I’ll get shrieked at again!
 

TheBeard

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It is sobering to think the leading cause of death in men aged 18 to 44 who havent had a vaccine is now Covid (USA figures)
Get a vaccine, and get us out of this mess
 

Dave91131

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Mask mandates, vaccine passports and such are working sooooo well in Austria, Germany and France. It’s almost as if the thing will spread whatever you do so you might as well just hope for the best?

Couldn't agree more.

It's here. Stay at home if you want to. Wear a mask if you want to. Cross the road to avoid others if you want to. Or get on with a normal life if you want to.

That'd be my press conference.
 

4-SUB 4732

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It is sobering to think the leading cause of death in men aged 18 to 44 who havent had a vaccine is now Covid (USA figures)
Get a vaccine, and get us out of this mess
I’m sorry but the fact is that’s in the US. I’m going to go on a limb and say less vaccinated and, critically, more co-morbidities and less access to healthcare.

In any event, I’m prepared to take the hit and die at home of Covid if it means someone gets their cancer diagnosis and treatment. If I am somehow able to die from Covid, I probably wouldn’t have had a long life anyway.
 

Darandio

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Mask mandates, vaccine passports and such are working sooooo well in Austria, Germany and France. It’s almost as if the thing will spread whatever you do so you might as well just hope for the best?

Of course. But that would mean they haven't got some element of control and they cannot do without it. All of those who absolutely loved trying to enforce masks mandates before the summer are wetting themselves with glee tonight.
 

Dave91131

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It is sobering to think the leading cause of death in men aged 18 to 44 who havent had a vaccine is now Covid (USA figures)
Get a vaccine, and get us out of this mess

Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be as simple as that.

It appears to be something like; get a vaccine to protect to a certain degree against variants A-G for a certain length of time, repeat a few weeks later, repeat again with a booster a few months later.. A few days or weeks after that, get a vaccine to protect to a certain degree against variants H-M for a certain length of time, repeat a few weeks later, repeat again with a booster a few months later.. You get my drift.

And we're still not out of this mess, and are a long way from being so according to Sajid Javid.
 

DustyBin

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The point of the vaccine is to protect you from the virus.

Yes, but for the majority of people the risk is tiny and well below what they consider worth mitigating. Being vaccinated was simply the path of least resistance, but hasn’t lead to where they were told it would lead.
 
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