May 2021 Timetable Change

[JonathanH]

Will this be the first passenger working of a Turbo on the Devon locals?

No, that was in December on Exmouth to Paignton https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-class-165-166-turbo-diagrams.157030/page-27#post-4903631 and earlier on the Barnstaple branch

 

[berneyarms]

Back to aspects of the Timetable, GWR have an interesting one which is that 2F05 0648 Exeter St Davids starts from Bristol TM at 0525 which indicates it will be a means of moving a Turbo from Bristol onto Exmouth to Paignton services

Which ends up in Exeter if I’m correctly following its workings through the day on RTT.

 

[yorkie]

I have moved some posts to the following thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/215172/

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Back to aspects of the Timetable, GWR have an interesting one which is that 2F05 0648 Exeter St Davids starts from Bristol TM at 0525 which indicates it will be a means of moving a Turbo from Bristol onto Exmouth to Paignton services

Or cycling a Class 150 diagram through SPM

 

[PHILIPE]

Or cycling a Class 150 diagram through SPM

Timed at 90mph ? 150s don't work north of Exeter now unless out of course

 

[Bikeman78]

Although that is still subject to alterations, in the same way as the first Covid changes were done around this time last year.


That's likely to remain so for a while - perhaps a slight increase from September and/or some summer extras, but the next opportunity for a major uplift will be December.


Essentially, yes - it 'reserves' them a path with the ability to stop there, so they can resume calling at the omitted stations (Chesterfield, Winchester etc.) if they wish

Again, that doesn't mean they will - it just protects their future position from impinging freight trains and so forth.

Why wouldn't they want to resume stopping at Winchester?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Timed at 90mph ? 150s don't work north of Exeter now unless out of course

The M-F move is timed for 90mph but the Sat AM move is 75mph I think?

 

[Watershed]

Why wouldn't they want to resume stopping at Winchester?

Because it means more passengers (especially those making local journeys, e.g. Basingstoke to Winchester), and thus the risk of social distancing capacities being exceeded. Or, once that becomes a relic of the past, simply more overcrowding.

There is also the fact that omitting stops results in better timekeeping.

Of course in the past, changes such as these would have been a political hot potato. In the current environment of low passenger numbers, the dropping of these stops (and XC are by no means the only TOC at this kind of stuff) has happened quietly and without objection.

 

[Ianno87]

Why wouldn't they want to resume stopping at Winchester?

Because it means more passengers (especially those making local journeys, e.g. Basingstoke to Winchester), and thus the risk of social distancing capacities being exceeded. Or, once that becomes a relic of the past, simply more overcrowding.

There is also the fact that omitting stops results in better timekeeping.

Of course in the past, changes such as these would have been a political hot potato. In the current environment of low passenger numbers, the dropping of these stops (and XC are by no means the only TOC at this kind of stuff) has happened quietly and without objection.

And the alternative for Winchester-ites is a pretty straightforward interchange at Basingstoke.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Because it means more passengers (especially those making local journeys, e.g. Basingstoke to Winchester), and thus the risk of social distancing capacities being exceeded. Or, once that becomes a relic of the past, simply more overcrowding.

There is also the fact that omitting stops results in better timekeeping.

Of course in the past, changes such as these would have been a political hot potato. In the current environment of low passenger numbers, the dropping of these stops (and XC are by no means the only TOC at this kind of stuff) has happened quietly and without objection.

Without much objection. Social media, particularly Twitter, would partially prove otherwise.

 

[PHILIPE]

The M-F move is timed for 90mph but the Sat AM move is 75mph I think?

Yes, it is, but there shouldn't be any 150s at Bristol to work it.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Yes, it is, but there shouldn't be any 150s at Bristol to work it.

There will be if one has made its way there the previous night

 

[Watershed]

And the alternative for Winchester-ites is a pretty straightforward interchange at Basingstoke.

That could be said about almost all intermediate, secondary stations that CrossCountry serves.

For example, why should they serve Durham? You can change at Darlington or Newcastle. Why should they stop at Tiverton Parkway? Nothing wrong with changing at Taunton or Exeter. And so on.

There is an undeniable value to having direct trains, at least as far as the nearest major hub (in Winchester's case Reading, for example).

The change being easy is no consolation if you have to change trains twice to travel from Winchester to Slough, for example. That's enough to put most MOPs off considering the train.

Without much objection. Social media, particularly Twitter, would partially prove otherwise.

Oh, of course. Perhaps I should have been clearer - current low passenger numbers mean that not enough people have been inconvenienced yet for a stink to be raised.

 

[PHILIPE]

There will be if one has made its way there the previous night

GWR drivers at the northern end have now taken 150s off their Traction cards

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

GWR drivers at the northern end have now taken 150s off their Traction cards

That isn’t entirely true.

 

[Ianno87]

That could be said about almost all intermediate, secondary stations that CrossCountry serves.

For example, why should they serve Durham? You can change at Darlington or Newcastle. Why should they stop at Tiverton Parkway? Nothing wrong with changing at Taunton or Exeter. And so on.

There is an undeniable value to having direct trains, at least as far as the nearest major hub (in Winchester's case Reading, for example).

The change being easy is no consolation if you have to change trains twice to travel from Winchester to Slough, for example. That's enough to put most MOPs off considering the train.

Yes, lots of places where that could be true. And the consequence of that XC being overloaded with local journeys to the detriment of longer distance users.

 

[Bikeman78]

Because it means more passengers (especially those making local journeys, e.g. Basingstoke to Winchester), and thus the risk of social distancing capacities being exceeded. Or, once that becomes a relic of the past, simply more overcrowding.

There is also the fact that omitting stops results in better timekeeping.

Of course in the past, changes such as these would have been a political hot potato. In the current environment of low passenger numbers, the dropping of these stops (and XC are by no means the only TOC at this kind of stuff) has happened quietly and without objection.

Is there a particular problem with local journeys from Winchester being made? SWR have trains that are just as quick. Easy enough to make them pick up only to Basingstoke or Reading. Many people plan journeys on the internet so the trains would not show up.

 

[Llandudno]

That could be said about almost all intermediate, secondary stations that CrossCountry serves.

For example, why should they serve Durham? You can change at Darlington or Newcastle. Why should they stop at Tiverton Parkway? Nothing wrong with changing at Taunton or Exeter. And so on.

There is an undeniable value to having direct trains, at least as far as the nearest major hub (in Winchester's case Reading, for example).

The change being easy is no consolation if you have to change trains twice to travel from Winchester to Slough, for example. That's enough to put most MOPs off considering the train.


Oh, of course. Perhaps I should have been clearer - current low passenger numbers mean that not enough people have been inconvenienced yet for a stink to be raised.

The other issue if some intermediate stations are omitted is that passengers travelling from those stations are unable to buy cheaper advance tickets.

They either have to pay the standard fare, or buy a ticket to the interchange station and then a XC advance. So, not only is a change of train an inconvenience the cost of buying two tickets instead of one may deter people from travelling by train and taking the car instead.

 

[Watershed]

Yes, lots of places where that could be true. And the consequence of that XC being overloaded with local journeys to the detriment of longer distance users.

Indeed. And perhaps, in the round, this is the 'least worst' option until XC can get hold of Avanti's Super Voyagers.

But at the very least there should have been a public consultation about it - not a cloak-and-dagger change done under the pretend justification of Covid.

 

[Bikeman78]

And the alternative for Winchester-ites is a pretty straightforward interchange at Basingstoke.

Last time I checked it was a 25 to 30 minute wait. Pretty poor.

 

[Watershed]

Is there a particular problem with local journeys from Winchester being made? SWR have trains that are just as quick. Easy enough to make them pick up only to Basingstoke or Reading. Many people plan journeys on the internet so the trains would not show up.

Eminently XC thought it was a problem.

In a pre-Covid world, such changes would have been unthinkable. Think of the ORCATS revenue XC must be losing!

The other issue if some intermediate stations are omitted is that passengers travelling from those stations are unable to buy cheaper advance tickets.

They either have to pay the standard fare, or buy a ticket to the interchange station and then a XC advance. So, not only is a change of train an inconvenience the cost of buying two tickets instead of one may deter people from travelling by train and taking the car instead.

Exactly, this is just one of many unintended consequences.

 

[PHILIPE]

That isn’t entirely true.

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/different-driver-depots-route-and-traction-cards.205085/page-10

See Post #285 from a poster involved with Resources

There are no trains booked to run up Friday evening that are not 90 + mph timings at some point. Error ?

 

[Ianno87]

The other issue if some intermediate stations are omitted is that passengers travelling from those stations are unable to buy cheaper advance tickets.

They either have to pay the standard fare, or buy a ticket to the interchange station and then a XC advance. So, not only is a change of train an inconvenience the cost of buying two tickets instead of one may deter people from travelling by train and taking the car instead.

Not necessarily, if an "..& Connections" ticket is available.

 

[JonathanH]

Not necessarily, if an "..& Connections" ticket is available.

There is a substantial difference between most 'XC only' and 'XC & Connections' fares ever since Arriva took over.

 

[Ianno87]

In a pre-Covid world, such changes would have been unthinkable. Think of the ORCATS revenue XC must be losing!

Less relevant when every TOCs bottom line is ultimately the same one - DfT.

There is a substantial difference between most 'XC only' and 'XC & Connections' fares ever since Arriva took over.

Granted, XC do seem particularly "extreme" in this respect. Not that that's unfixable if the will is there.

 

[Watershed]

Granted, XC do seem particularly "extreme" in this respect. Not that that's unfixable if the will is there.

Fine to say - but we all know it's not going to change.

There is an unbelievable lack of accountability in the rail industry at the moment. No-one is looking at the whole picture and saying "wait a minute, why on earth are we doing X?".

 

[Ianno87]

Fine to say - but we all know it's not going to change.

There is an unbelievable lack of accountability in the rail industry at the moment. No-one is looking at the whole picture and saying "wait a minute, why on earth are we doing X?".

Agree. There's a massive opportunity to "reshape" service patterns and fares structures without the usual political backlash for the long term good, which I fear will be squandered.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/different-driver-depots-route-and-traction-cards.205085/page-10

See Post #285 from a poster involved with Resources

There are no trains booked to run up Friday evening that are not 90 + mph timings at some point. Error ?

Nope - WIP. Take my word for it

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The wheel lathe at SPM is far more suited to 150s than the one at Laira where sets have to be split to use the lathe.

 

[pompeyfan]

One thing I have noticed is there are a lot of day time Victoria - Portsmouth services than now terminate at Portsmouth & Southsea vice Portsmouth Harbour, but there doesn’t seem to be much of a pattern to it.