May 2021 Timetable Change

[Peter0124]

Depends on what you mean by publish? It won't appear on their website's timetable section for a while yet.

Anyway, they are moving back to the 3tph Birmingham/Manchester of yonder days - though I would not be surprised if only 2 of those end up running (at least to begin with).

I mean publish as in the services appear on RTT. Do you know if London - Chester and London - Glasgow via BHM are coming back?

And on an unrelated note, I've just seen a tweet saying that from December 2021: LNER are planning to remove the 1tpd between Glasgow and Kings Cross. Would be sad to see this go if true.

https://twitter.com/EuanSteuart/status/1367090524339986432

 

[The Planner]

Depends on what you mean by publish? It won't appear on their website's timetable section for a while yet.

Anyway, they are moving back to the 3tph Birmingham/Manchester of yonder days - though I would not be surprised if only 2 of those end up running (at least to begin with).

September at the earliest for 3tph from what I've heard.

 

[HST43257]

Do we know if the Okehampton service will start straight away Or will it be route refresh at first?

 

[TheBigD]

Weekday times, taken from 28 July

1S91 0545 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh 1010 4h 25m
1S93 1045 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh 1517 4h 32m
1S95 1218 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh 1641 4h 23m
1S97 1436 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh 1915 4h 39m
1S99 2018 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh 0046 4h 28m

1E80 0614 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross 1051 4h 37m
1E82 0911 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross 1348 4h 37m
1E84 1114 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross 1546 4h 32m
1E86 1612 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross 2047 4h 35m
1E88 1958 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross 0105 5h 7m

Clearly the last one is going to be pathed for engineering work running that late into Kings Cross. The southbound trains seem to variously have pathing allowances around Darlington and Peterborough. The slower northbound trains seem to have pathing issues around Doncaster and York.

It will be interesting to see if LNER respond with earlier/later departures from Kings Cross in response...

 

[PHILIPE]

Do we know if the Okehampton service will start straight away Or will it be route refresh at first?

The answer and discussion can be found here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/exeter-to-okehampton-services-from-may-2021-timetable.214677/#post-5023596

 

[irish_rail]

Surely this summer XC should be looking at additional trains to South Coast and South west. Stay cations this year will be even more popular than last year with vaccinated folk confident enough to travel this year unlike last. No uplift in service isbvery disappointing.

Similarly no direct paddington to Newquay trains is also a kick in the teeth if true for one of Cornwalls main resorts, and i do hope there will be some uplift in capacity from London to Cornwall, not 5 car splits at Plymouth!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Similarly no direct paddington to Newquay trains is also a kick in the teeth if true for one of Cornwalls main resorts, and i do hope there will be some uplift in capacity from London to Cornwall, not 5 car splits at Plymouth!

As you know Capacity as already been increased west of Plymouth since 2020 with most services no longer splitting at Plymouth. RTT will show if a train divides at Plymouth which there don’t seem to be many in May 2021 just late evenings.

As mentioned up thread the Newquay services are in RTT as unadvertised (you need to click on details for them to show up) - the operation (or not) will presumably depend on nothing other than the ability to be able to get sufficient train crew route refreshed.

 

[Ianno87]

Surely this summer XC should be looking at additional trains to South Coast and South west. Stay cations this year will be even more popular than last year with vaccinated folk confident enough to travel this year unlike last. No uplift in service isbvery disappointing.

With what rolling stock? Doubled up Voyagers seems the way to go on the existing Covid pattern, which have loads of capacity.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I understand Leeds is now simply one evening service from St Pancras only, which returns to Derby.

1F56 - 1632 St Pancras to Leeds, arr 1941, calling Leicester (1739-1741), Loughborough (1751), East Midlands Parkway (1757), Long Eaton (1802), Derby (1812-1818), Chesterfield (1835), Sheffield (1852-1854), Wakefield Westgate (1919).
1C92 - 2035 Leeds to Derby, arr 2207, calling Wakefield Westgate (2053), Sheffield (2132-2137), Chesterfield (2149).
Booked to be a 7 car 222.

 

[Ianno87]

1F56 - 1632 St Pancras to Leeds, arr 1941, calling Leicester (1739-1741), Loughborough (1751), East Midlands Parkway (1757), Long Eaton (1802), Derby (1812-1818), Chesterfield (1835), Sheffield (1852-1854), Wakefield Westgate (1919).
1C92 - 2035 Leeds to Derby, arr 2207, calling Wakefield Westgate (2053), Sheffield (2132-2137), Chesterfield (2149).
Booked to be a 7 car 222.

Is this the first regular booked 222 to Leeds, or has it happened before?

 

[Adam0984]

Is this the first regular booked 222 to Leeds, or has it happened before?

I believe its the first booked 222. Its happened short term set swap a couple of times. And I think the weekend York was diverted via Leeds previously

 

[sufian123]

EMR ones showing no weekend services to York showing?

 

[Starmill]

The restored through trains between Crewe and Nottingham are shown, with most continuing to Newark Castle. A new 2142 from Derby, which comes from Nottingham, runs to Crewe. Very impressive.

 

[Llandudno]

Great to see EMR introducing a later last southbound train.

2147 Ex Sheffield calling at principal stations to London

This should improve mid/late evening travel opportunities from the north and the Midlands to Leicester, Market Harborough and Kettering etc.

 

[Kite159]

I see Spondon goes hourly as well

 

[Peter0124]

LNER, London Overground, Greater Anglia and TfL Rail now showing.

 

[anthony263]

Any tfw services yet ?

 

[g22]

Great to see EMR introducing a later last southbound train.

2147 Ex Sheffield calling at principal stations to London

This should improve mid/late evening travel opportunities from the north and the Midlands to Leicester, Market Harborough and Kettering etc.

Yes, pleased to see the last trains from Sheffield to Leicester & South MML at 21:01 and 21:47 with the last train connecting from the EMR trains from Leeds and Manchester.

And a Leicester to Leeds train that I might actually use!

I am sure there will be other interesting stuff to look at tomorrow.

 

[Mariner16]

First three Derby to London trains go via Nottingham, all before 0600.

Personally happy I can travel from Nottingham to my home town of Grimsby without having to change, even got a 2200 from Cleethorpes as a return which is some 45 minutes later than it is now.

 

[DanNCL]

LNER, London Overground, Greater Anglia and TfL Rail now showing.

Not all of the LNER services yet, none of the northbound services to Leeds are showing (or at least they weren't 5 minutes ago), Edinburgh ones seem to all be showing though.

 

[Starmill]

Yes, pleased to see the last trains from Sheffield to Leicester & South MML at 21:01 and 21:47 with the last train connecting from the EMR trains from Leeds and Manchester.

And a Leicester to Leeds train that I might actually use!

I am sure there will be other interesting stuff to look at tomorrow.

Indeed. There are two new early morning services from Sheffield to Nottingham, both of which call at Ilkeston and one of which calls at Dronfield, which is a big improvement over the HST operated current service which doesn't call at either. There is no need to replace the former HST operated service northbound as long as the 2112 Nottingham to Leeds Northern service is running.

A new 2140 from Manchester Piccadilly to Nottingham via Sheffield is also an excellent improvement over that service being empty stock, as it fills a 60 minute gap in Manchester to Sheffield services and a 90 minute gap in Sheffield to Nottingham services. Very impressive. Sheffield to London journey times are much more consistent, no longer being so slow in the morning peak, and the first service is earlier at 0458 and the return at 2305 is later. I also note that there's a 0356 from Derby and 0421 from Nottingham to London (the same train), and that the 0015 from London to Leicester extends to Derby. The other changes revolving around half-hourly Corby services are well documented, so I shall not repeat them here.

The new timetable really does seem to be considerably more useful for almost everyone except possibly for people travelling between Luton Airport Parkway, Luton , Bedford or Wellingborough and Market Harborough, Leicester, Loughborough or Nottingham who must change once; also people travelling between those stations at the southern end of the route and Long Eaton, Derby, Chesterfield or Sheffield who must change twice. I could perhaps add that I feel that it has been a bit overlooked that 2tph from Kettering to nearby Market Harborough and also to Leicester is actually quite good.

I will leave it to others to investigate or draw a contrast between end-to-end timings on current fast Nottingham to London trains and the new timetable for this flow, and also to describe any important things that may be happening on Sundays.

 

[HST43257]

So glad the MML has a simple 30 min pattern south of Leicester. So much more simple and it’d good to see a second fast service for Nottingham.

 

[Mariner16]

Cleethorpes to Barton upon Humber is listed on RTT as under EMR, is this the official confirmation of the transfer as I've not seen anything yet?

 

[Starmill]

I see Spondon goes hourly as well

I always thought that Spondon had great growth potential. The station has a large residential catchment area, albeit that the town is sadly cut in two by an unpleasant dual carriageway and that the immediate station environs could perhaps be a little more appealing.

 

[RHolmes]

Cleethorpes to Barton upon Humber is listed on RTT as under EMR, is this the official confirmation of the transfer as I've not seen anything yet?

It’s due to transfer in May but both EMR/TPE are in discussions about how the route will be crewed as due to the pandemic EMR haven’t yet trained traincrew over it

Currently it’s likely to be an EMR service utilising some element of TPE crew (wether that be drivers/conductors or both) for the first few weeks/months of transfer, as is currently the case with Northern, and then transfer to full EMR trains and crew.

 

[DDB]

I always thought that Spondon had great growth potential. The station has a large residential catchment area, albeit that the town is sadly cut in two by an unpleasant dual carriageway and that the immediate station environs could perhaps be a little more appealing.

The extra Spondon calls are a pleasant surprise and must be a very late edition as the very recently published results of the timetable consultation included in the question and answer section.

Will you call additional services at Spondon?

We will continue to provide a limited service to/from Spondon and we will assess if there is sufficient demand for more frequent calls in future timetable changes.

Then they go and pull a throughout the day hourly service out the bag!

There is a big new science/industral park being built on the old factory site that is adjacent to Spondon station so there is scope for new inwards commuter and construction worker traffic which they might be making an early play for.

Another surprise to me in the EMR timetable is I had assumed that the extra train an hour for Attenborough was going to be in the extention to Nottingham of the Crewe service as they were both due to be introduced in the same timetable change.

In fact the new Attenborough stop is in the Lincoln to Leicester service. This doesn't give a very even service to Nottingham but I wonder if offers better options for travelling to London without having to double back to Nottingham by changing at East Midlands Parkway or Leicester?

 

[James90012]

I was wondering how EMR would integrate the 1tpd to Melton Mowbray and it seems like a very sensible solution has been found to portion work the 18:35 St Pan to Nottingham / Melton Mowbray splitting at Kettering. In the Up direction there is a 08:15 from Melton Mowbray which joins to the 08:13 from Nottingham at Kettering. It does push this one Nottingham into a slightly different path and extends journey times but has the benefits of providing Corby with that Intercity train at key times as well as a well timed direct London train for Oakham and Melton Mowbray.

There is still a spread of pathing time south of Leicester - but I see this as an opportunity once the timetable is settled and proven to work for EMR to look at providing tactical calls particularly in the Sheffield service at key times without affecting journey times, e.g. northbound in the AM and southbound in the PM - similar to what Avanti do on the West Coast for Glasgow and other long distance services to retain at least some direct connectivity at the busiest times.

 

[tommy2215]

Derby-Nottingham, which was 3tph before COVID now becomes 4tph, a very useful boost. And as mentioned above, very pleased about Spondon getting an hourly service. Does anyone know the last time Spondon had one? Conversely though, Peartree gets one less train a day.

 

[Ianno87]

The restored through trains between Crewe and Nottingham are shown, with most continuing to Newark Castle. A new 2142 from Derby, which comes from Nottingham, runs to Crewe. Very impressive.

Runs with a 1Kxx headcode in one direction and a 2Nxx in the other! That must be pretty unusual....

 

[HST43257]

Are we expecting more additions to the system tonight or will it be spaced out now for a couple of weeks?