May 2021 Timetable Change

bunnahabhain

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EMR 1st Supplemental Agreement May 21 Timetable has now been approved by ORR apparently. Schedule 5 Table 2.2 seems to have additional passenger train slots York to London and London to York on Saturday and Sunday (in addition to the normal London to York, York to London on Saturday and Leicester to York, York to London on Sunday) so it seems there will be 2 each way to York if I am reading it correctly. It definitely says via Doncaster.



Can only hope that Covid doesn't ruin things.
Don't expect a Sunday train to York. Also, Pontefract Baghill is a location listed on some documentation that I have seen, but then so is Doncaster, so maybe its both!
 
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g22

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Don't expect a Sunday train to York. Also, Pontefract Baghill is a location listed on some documentation that I have seen, but then so is Doncaster, so maybe its both!
Thanks for your input. Pontefract Baghill was also mentioned in Modern Railways last Autumn as well even though track access document has Doncaster. Also as far as the York trains are concerned I was just mentioning what the track access document says and also EMR mention Sunday trains to York in their just released May 21 Consultation Results Document. Doesn't mean they will actually happen though as you say, especially in current circumstances.
 
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Kite159

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Don't expect a Sunday train to York. Also, Pontefract Baghill is a location listed on some documentation that I have seen, but then so is Doncaster, so maybe its both!

Maybe someone within the DFT decided that running via Doncaster might be more beneficial than via Pontefract in not being fresh air carriers
 

Galaxy

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The Doncaster to Scunthorpe service really has slumped to useless in recent years, especially now with the one towards Lincolnshire departing just minutes after the TPE.

It's a token effort and as much as I would love to see the Northern service extend to Cleethorpes or Grimsby, it wouldn't be beneficial in its current timings.

Whichever way you do it, there's a long layover at one end or the other. I wouldn't be surprised if this service ends up cutting out stops at Crowle and Althorpe in the future if and when it goes back to hourly.
 

HST43257

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The Doncaster to Scunthorpe service really has slumped to useless in recent years, especially now with the one towards Lincolnshire departing just minutes after the TPE.
It does seem quite silly that it doesn’t connect with the TPE at Scunthorpe, unless they do have along term plan to extend it towards Barton/Grimsby/Cleethorpes.
 
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Northern East Side changes:
09:55, 11:55 and 13:55 Newcastle Central - Morpeth and associated returns reinstated.
Carlisle - Newcastle increased from 22 to 24 services per day out of a normal 26.
Hi CM, is this info available in the public domain yet?

Thanks in advance!
 

mervyn72

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Not sure if its already been asked, but has a date been put forward for when the new timetable will be released to RTT
 

HST43257

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Not sure if its already been asked, but has a date been put forward for when the new timetable will be released to RTT
(Apologies for the unhelpful notification but) I can’t wait for the May times to come out. So many trips to plan!
 

Baxenden Bank

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Not sure if its already been asked, but has a date been put forward for when the new timetable will be released to RTT

(Apologies for the unhelpful notification but) I can’t wait for the May times to come out. So many trips to plan!

any changes coming on southeastern and/or thameslink? cheers

I can't help but think that the May timetable, whenever it comes out, will essentially be a starting point from which to make amendments, on a week by week basis, until we are certain where we are going with COVID restrictions. A new timetable, being on RTT or wherever, will mean not a lot in practice.
 

Bald Rick

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Not sure if its already been asked, but has a date been put forward for when the new timetable will be released to RTT

End of next week, I’ve been told.

I can't help but think that the May timetable, whenever it comes out, will essentially be a starting point from which to make amendments, on a week by week basis, until we are certain where we are going with COVID restrictions. A new timetable, being on RTT or wherever, will mean not a lot in practice.

I’d expect the May timetable to be relatively stable, assuming that the virus continues its downward trend.
 

Class 466

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any changes coming on southeastern and/or thameslink? cheers
On both GTR & SE it won’t be a return to any sort of pre-COVID timetable in May. Simply not the demand for that many commuter services in the weekday peaks.

Especially as the work from home advice will be one of the last things to change and even then it’s far from certain how many people will actually return 5 days a week.

I’d expect a slight increase in services but I doubt it’ll be anywhere near December 20 levels yet (which didn’t really operate on either TOC anyway) let alone the December 19 timetable.

Also worth noting that GN won’t have as much stock to play with from May (most of which is sat around in sidings currently) so there definitely is no sign of a sudden increase in services.

You can also say goodbye to GX 387s operating on the East Coastway, that’ll revert to 377 from May.
 

Joe96

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On both GTR & SE it won’t be a return to any sort of pre-COVID timetable in May. Simply not the demand for that many commuter services in the weekday peaks.

Especially as the work from home advice will be one of the last things to change and even then it’s far from certain how many people will actually return 5 days a week.

I’d expect a slight increase in services but I doubt it’ll be anywhere near December 20 levels yet (which didn’t really operate on either TOC anyway) let alone the December 19 timetable.

Also worth noting that GN won’t have as much stock to play with from May (most of which is sat around in sidings currently) so there definitely is no sign of a sudden increase in services.

You can also say goodbye to GX 387s operating on the East Coastway, that’ll revert to 377 from May.
They reducing the amount of 365s?
 

Jan Mayen

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Removing entirely. 6 387/2s from GX moving up in the short to medium term.
Shame to see the GX stock going. I appreciate I'm one of the few people to actually like it.
Hopefully they'll come back when they reinstate the Gatwick-Victoria services in a couple of years time.
 

Bald Rick

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Some might be out tomorrow / Thursday. But another couple of weeks before all of it.
 

tommy2215

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XC trains are in RTT now. Full service returns on their Turbostar routes, Voyager routes the same as now. Interestingly, all the stops which had been removed from XC services are now showing as unadvertised calls. Does that mean XC won't stop at those stations initially, but will if demand from/for them picks up?
 

Watershed

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XC trains are in RTT now. Full service returns on their Turbostar routes
Although that is still subject to alterations, in the same way as the first Covid changes were done around this time last year.

Voyager routes the same as now
That's likely to remain so for a while - perhaps a slight increase from September and/or some summer extras, but the next opportunity for a major uplift will be December.

Interestingly, all the stops which had been removed from XC services are now showing as unadvertised calls. Does that mean XC won't stop at those stations initially, but will if demand from/for them picks up?
Essentially, yes - it 'reserves' them a path with the ability to stop there, so they can resume calling at the omitted stations (Chesterfield, Winchester etc.) if they wish

Again, that doesn't mean they will - it just protects their future position from impinging freight trains and so forth.
 

Johnny Lewis

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22.02 Paddington to Exeter (via Bristol) is extended to Plymouth, albeit not arriving there until after 02.00, so a long old journey.

17.36 Paddington to Paignton is diverted to Plymouth. From December 2021, the plan is to divert the 14.36 Paddington to Plymouth to run to Paignton instead.

"The Cotswolds & Malvern Express" is a reintroduced name on the 09.50 Paddington to Hereford and corresponding return train.

No summer Saturday GWR trains to / from Pembroke Dock and no direct London - Newquay services this summer.

Paddington - South Wales remains hourly off-peak, but some of what would have been Paddington - Cardiff trains are reinstated between Paddington and Bristol Parkway.
 

Mainline421

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Still no North East to South Coast services at all (or Bristol to Manchester for that matter) and half-frequency across most sections of route, a very disapointing show from CrossCountry! At least a full timetable on the Turbos suggests these services should hopefully one day return.
 

HST43257

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Still no North East to South Coast services at all (or Bristol to Manchester for that matter) and half-frequency across most sections of route, a very disapointing show from CrossCountry! At least a full timetable on the Turbos suggests these services should hopefully one day return.
As expected really for the voyager routes. In reality, they only need Edinburgh to Plymouth and Manchester to Bournemouth. All the other services do is make less need for a change. Not a big deal. Of turbostar services are expected to have high passenger numbers, then sure they can do their thing (half hourly core route services).
 
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No summer Saturday GWR trains to / from Pembroke Dock and no direct London - Newquay services this summer.

Many of the summer Saturdays GWR additional to places like Newquay are in RTT as unadvertised paths - presumably awaiting to see if route refreshing is possible before they look to run them.
 

Watershed

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All the other services do is make less need for a change. Not a big deal.
It's more than that - it's about the frequency of service, as the services are mostly "duplicates" either side of Birmingham. I'm doubtful that 1tph will be enough for the best-case scenario of recovery, but it's set in stone for the foreseeable.
 
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It's more than that - it's about the frequency of service, as the services are mostly "duplicates" either side of Birmingham. I'm doubtful that 1tph will be enough for the best-case scenario of recovery, but it's set in stone for the foreseeable.

The loss of any direct trains between Bristol and Manchester is also not ideal.
 

daodao

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The loss of any direct trains between Bristol and Manchester is also not ideal.
The current hourly services on the Bristol-Birmingham and Birmingham-Manchester routes provide very poor northbound connections at New Street. Unless the timings change from May 2021, this issue is likely to persist.
 

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