May 2023 changes

[PGAT]

It used to be scheduled for 2tph, which did run pre-pandemic.

Pre-pandemic there were 2 trains a day leaving Littlehampton to Bedford, leaving Littlehampton at 0552 and 0652 so once an hour. The return journey had three trains leaving Bedford at 0722, 1544 and 1645.

 

[swt_passenger]

It used to be scheduled for 2tph, which did run pre-pandemic. But ever since the pandemic, you're lucky to see it run more than once or twice a week on its 1 run a day, even with the curtailment to LBG. Hopefully this curtailment and SN handover is just a temporary arrangement, as it was a great benefit to Coastway commuters which have returned in numbers, but something tells me it won't be.

Yes, I wasn’t sure from memory if it was 1 or 2 each way. I’ve since searched the forum and when it was being discussed in early 2019 they were running 2 each way, with the third of the three yet to be added. I got the impression people had expected a lot more services.

 

[Halish Railway]

Re. CrossCountry, I have a few observations to add
- Plymouth will be served hourly again, rather than every other train being curtailed at Bristol Temple Meads.
- Leeds will receive an extra train per day in the form of the 14:45 Reading to Newcastle.
- Edinburgh will be served hourly again, with the occasional curtailments at Newcastle removed.
- A lot, if not most trains still skip Brockenhurst and Chesterfield.

I do hope that there will be three HST diagrams per day and that a lease can be quickly arranged for the two Voyagers released by Avanti West Coast. With most services being single Voyagers and still down on pre-Covid frequencies, I fear that the Birmingham to Newcastle and Reading sections may become very overcrowded. Otherwise this timetable change marks a step in the right direction.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I got the impression people had expected a lot more services.

More than 2 peak time trains, one of which being completely useless for City workers, would have helped.

 

[PGAT]

Yes, I wasn’t sure from memory if it was 1 or 2 each way. I’ve since searched the forum and when it was being discussed in early 2019 they were running 2 each way, with the third of the three yet to be added. I got the impression people had expected a lot more services.

If there were to be more Thameslink services they would all have terminated at London Bridge. Littlehampton to Bedford is the longest Thameslink route and the most intensive in terms of staffing and rolling stock. You can't realistically turn round trains anywhere else.

 

[The Planner]

Any idea when we will know for sure? On the face of it the XC improvements actually look pretty decent albeit from a low base. This is assuming of course that the HSTs stay until replacements of whatever type (more 22x's presumably) can be brought in.

Nope. They may just suddenly disappear, or they may end up staying.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Connects at Swindon out if the 05.23 Paddington to Swansea, was probably overkill to have this starting from Paddington just 12 minutes later at 05.35!



I understand there will be a DMU connection (still to be uploaded) in a similar time to this service as far as Swindon - not quite everything is uploaded yet.

I hope that’s the case. An early train used to go to Southampton IIRC, the last few years it has been London instead but it’s always been there. Popular with night shift workers heading home to Stonehouse and Stroud.

I also hope that the early and late Hereford will reappear at some point.

 

[OliverH68]

Lumo, Hull Trains & Chiltern are also up.

Personally I'm pleased to see that Chiltern have brought back 2tph to Birmingham.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Re. CrossCountry, I have a few observations to add
- Plymouth will be served hourly again, rather than every other train being curtailed at Bristol Temple Meads.
- Leeds will receive an extra train per day in the form of the 14:45 Reading to Newcastle.
- Edinburgh will be served hourly again, with the occasional curtailments at Newcastle removed.
- A lot, if not most trains still skip Brockenhurst and Chesterfield.

I do hope that there will be three HST diagrams per day and that a lease can be quickly arranged for the two Voyagers released by Avanti West Coast. With most services being single Voyagers and still down on pre-Covid frequencies, I fear that the Birmingham to Newcastle and Reading sections may become very overcrowded. Otherwise this timetable change marks a step in the right direction.

Just to clarify - here are the following diagrams for weekdays...

06:24 Newcastle - Reading 11:09
11:45 Reading - York 15:39
16:37 York - Birmingham New Street 18:28

08:35 Newcastle - Reading 13:07
14:45 Reading - Newcastle 20:01

06:45 Reading - Newcastle 11:45
12:35 Newcastle - Reading 17:07
17:43 Reading - Newcastle 22:15

10:35 Newcastle - Reading 15:05
15:43 Reading - York 19:42

Also, the 09:25 Penzance - Edinburgh starts at Plymouth at 11:27 and after Newcastle calls at Berwick-upon-Tweed then Edinburgh 20:04. Interestingly, its pathed as an HST. I know it doesn't mean allocated but it's an interesting one!

Instead,

Re. CrossCountry, I have a few observations to add
- Plymouth will be served hourly again, rather than every other train being curtailed at Bristol Temple Meads.
- Leeds will receive an extra train per day in the form of the 14:45 Reading to Newcastle.
- Edinburgh will be served hourly again, with the occasional curtailments at Newcastle removed.
- A lot, if not most trains still skip Brockenhurst and Chesterfield.

I do hope that there will be three HST diagrams per day and that a lease can be quickly arranged for the two Voyagers released by Avanti West Coast. With most services being single Voyagers and still down on pre-Covid frequencies, I fear that the Birmingham to Newcastle and Reading sections may become very overcrowded. Otherwise this timetable change marks a step in the right direction.

Just to clarify - here are the following diagrams for weekdays...

06:24 Newcastle - Reading 11:09
11:45 Reading - York 15:39
16:37 York - Birmingham New Street 18:28

08:35 Newcastle - Reading 13:07
14:45 Reading - Newcastle 20:01

06:45 Reading - Newcastle 11:45
12:35 Newcastle - Reading 17:07
17:43 Reading - Newcastle 22:15

10:35 Newcastle - Reading 15:05
15:43 Reading - York 19:42

Extra calls at Tamworth and Burton-on-Trent on the Northbound workings.

The 09:25 Penzance - Edinburgh starts at Plymouth at 11:27. After Newcastle it calls at Berwick-upon-Tweed then Edinburgh at 20:04.

I know pathed doesn't mean the allocation. However the 11:27 is pathed as an HST.

There will be 2 Penzance - Edinburgh trains: 06:28 arriving at Edinburgh at 17:08 and an 08:37 arriving at around 19:10.

The 12:27 Plymouth to Edinburgh is extended to Glasgow Central.

An 06:00 London Paddington to Penzance via Bristol Temple Meads is introduced.

The summer Saturday 08:45 London Paddington to Pembroke Dock is reinstated, arriving there at 14:00, returns at 15:00. Passengers going to and from Didcot on the Pembroke train should change at Swindon.

 

[DelW]

On the North Downs, the 2234 from Reading is restored as far as Guildford, then running empty back to Reading. The unnecessary waits at Guildford on the stoppers and restoration of Turbo timings will have to wait for another timetable.

The return of the 22.34 on the Western end of the line is a welcome improvement.

Certainly a step in the right direction. As well as benefitting intermediate stations, it gives a connection onto the southbound Portsmouth Direct an hour later than is available currently. The 23:34 from Reading hasn't made that connection since SWR scrapped the long established 23:45 last train from Waterloo to Portsmouth.

 

[MikeWM]

I see that the Chiltern Oxford trains are still going to take almost 90 minutes end-to-end on Saturdays, a massive difference from 2019 when they took just over 60. Guess I'll stick with GWR.

 

[barbette165]

Had a quick look at Chiltern at the Birmingham end, but it's not possible to fully understand what's happening until the WMR trains are online as well.

A couple of (or three) observations

• The 2 TPH between Birmingham and Marylebone is restored throughout the day Monday to Saturday.
• Dorridge and Warwick now also receive calls from both of the trains per hour.
• The Leamington to Birmingham stoppers remain - I recall reading that there was a plan to withdraw them and add Lapworth and Hatton stops to some of the Marylebone services.

 

[WizCastro197]

If there were to be more Thameslink services they would all have terminated at London Bridge. Littlehampton to Bedford is the longest Thameslink route and the most intensive in terms of staffing and rolling stock. You can't realistically turn round trains anywhere else.

If one service is due to to handed over to Southern, the other might as well too. I don't understand the requirement to run a Thameslink unit ( 8 or 12 coach?) down to Littlehampton, when Southern can find the units for the return service, presumably they may be able to find some units for the morning journey, saving a 700 for other duties?

As discussed on other threads, there is little point in Thameslink retaining these services unless they run through the core, which they don't.

Had a quick look at Chiltern at the Birmingham end, but it's not possible to fully understand what's happening until the WMR trains are online as well.

A couple of (or three) observations

• The 2 TPH between Birmingham and Marylebone is restored throughout the day Monday to Saturday.
• Dorridge and Warwick now also receive calls from both of the trains per hour.
• The Leamington to Birmingham stoppers remain - I recall reading that there was a plan to withdraw them and add Lapworth and Hatton stops to some of the Marylebone services.

Still no restorations to any services (peak?) to Stratford-Upon-Avon from Marylebone?

 

[barbette165]

Still no restorations to any services (peak?) to Stratford-Upon-Avon from Marylebone?

No - that was almost my fourth bullet, it's almost reduced to a 2 hourly Stratford to Leamington shuttle, apart from one train at 2133 that extends to Marylebone (and is incidentally the last service from Leamington to Marylebone) and the final train at 2314 that runs to Banbury

 

[WizCastro197]

No - that was almost my fourth bullet, it's almost reduced to a 2 hourly Stratford to Leamington shuttle, apart from one train at 2133 that extends to Marylebone (and is incidentally the last service from Leamington to Marylebone) and the final train at 2314 that runs to Banbury

Hmm, I wonder how many people will be travelling to London at 21:33? Shame Stratford's MP is to caught up to ask Chiltern why there aren't even any peak services to London?

 

[Park47515]

More than 2 peak time trains, one of which being completely useless for City workers, would have helped.

Wasn't exactly a massive problem to walk across London Bridge. 9N88 was habitually empty by the time it got to Farringdon.

 

[JonathanH]

Shame Stratford's MP is to caught up to ask Chiltern why there aren't even any peak services to London?

It is on a branch line and people wanting London need to change. Not really different from anywhere else in a similar position - eg Henley-on-Thames or Marlow. If the through service was a slow south of Banbury, it wouldn't necessarily be quicker than making a change in any case.

 

[WizCastro197]

Wasn't exactly a massive problem to walk across London Bridge. 9N88 was habitually empty by the time it got to Farringdon.

Do you mean a Thameslink service (9N88?), as coincidentally a Crossrail service has the same head code which also runs though Farringdon?

 

[Park47515]

Do you mean a Thameslink service (9N88?), as coincidentally a Crossrail service has the same head code which also runs though Farringdon?

What in pre COVID times was the 0652 Littlehampton - Bedford.

 

[nw1]

Re. CrossCountry, I have a few observations to add
- Plymouth will be served hourly again, rather than every other train being curtailed at Bristol Temple Meads.
- Leeds will receive an extra train per day in the form of the 14:45 Reading to Newcastle.
- Edinburgh will be served hourly again, with the occasional curtailments at Newcastle removed.
- A lot, if not most trains still skip Brockenhurst and Chesterfield.

Silly. Provides access to the New Forest and the IoW via Lymington. They always used to stop there, why not now? Saving 2 minutes on a 5 hour journey to Bournemouth? The path presumably allows the stop, as it was always made in the normal timetables in existence up to 2019.

I am glad to see the restoration of the hourly service to Bournemouth, though.

333s have never resourced the Shipley triangle on their own, there have always been either diesel workings, Dusty Bins or 331s. When BDQ to SKI/ILK was hourly from the May 2022 timetable and throughout the reduced Covid timetable there were plenty of 331 workings. Bare in mind that 331s also work the Leeds to Doncaster services.

I've been this way just once (in early 2013) and it seemed to be (from somewhat limited observations) that 333s ran the off-peak service but 322s (?) covered some peak extras.

 

[JSH1900]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding it, but as a Didcot user I can't help but be disappointed by the May 2023 timetable.

• Services now seem very bunched. London seems to have 3 fasts an hour, but two are within a few minutes of each other. Likewise towards Oxford there are some annoying gaps?
• No longer 2 tph towards Bristol. Surely this affects services from Oxford heading west which is a bit rubbish.
• I haven't looked at frequency and spread of London/Reading to Didcot but if one of the Bristols has been cut, will the Oxfords be consistently 9 cars? I used to avoid the Oxfords (on Sundays for example when they called) as they were often a 5 and full from Oxford already.
• Losing Hayes on the semi fasts means Heathrow is now two changes away. Very frustrating.
• London to Bristol users who use split ticketing at Didcot will now need to be careful. Obviously it's in GWRs interest to close this but the regular pattern being closed is frustrating.

Are there any benefits to this I'm not seeing? I was a bit frustrated with the semi fasts not stopping at Hayes which I knew was coming, but I thought that the Oxford calls would be additional to the Bristols and giving a huge capacity boost between Didcot and Oxford/Reading/London (in lieu of Slough having the capacity), which it isn't if some Bristols are cut. It just seems like a bit of a step backwards from the current TT which, whilst it has its flaws (connections from Oxford to Cholsey/Goring etc are a bit rubbish) is otherwise a relatively nice and regular timetable from Didcot. Someone help me see the positives!

 

[matt_world2004]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding it, but as a Didcot user I can't help but be disappointed by the May 2023 timetable.

• Services now seem very bunched. London seems to have 3 fasts an hour, but two are within a few minutes of each other. Likewise towards Oxford there are some annoying gaps?
• No longer 2 tph towards Bristol. I'd also wager this affects services from Oxford heading west which is a bit rubbish.
• I haven't looked at frequency and spread of London/Reading to Didcot but if one of the Bristols has been cut, will the Oxfords be consistently 9 cars? I used to avoid the Oxfords (on Sundays for example when they called) as they were often a 5 and full from Oxford already.
• Losing Hayes on the semi fasts means Heathrow is now two changes away. Very frustrating.
• London to Bristol users who use split ticketing at Didcot will now need to be careful. Obviously it's in GWRs interest to close this but the regular pattern being closed is frustrating.

Are there any benefits to this I'm not seeing? I was a bit frustrated with the semi fasts not stopping at Hayes which I knew was coming, but I thought that the Oxford calls would be additional to the Bristols and giving a huge capacity boost between Didcot and Oxford/Reading/London (in lieu of Slough having the capacity), which it isn't if some Bristols are cut. It just seems like a bit of a step backwards from the current TT which, whilst it has its flaws (connections from Oxford to Cholsey/Goring etc are a bit rubbish) is otherwise a relatively nice and regular timetable from Didcot. Someone help me see the positives!

Not stopping at Ealing Broadway reduces connections to the central line too.

 

[xotGD]

A bit speculative (I'll start a thread later), but: if there are too many services between Shipley and Bradford, why not cut the Leeds-Bradford route instead? People can change at Shipley once - or twice - per hour, while maintaining the longer-distance routes. The way it's done, it's all or nothing once an hour.

This is in line with what I keep advocating, but keep getting shot down. Scrap Bradford - Leeds and divert Skipton - Bradford to Leeds.

Sorry for being off topic - I'll shut up now.

 

[InkyScrolls]

This is in line with what I keep advocating, but keep getting shot down. Scrap Bradford - Leeds and divert Skipton - Bradford to Leeds.

Sorry for being off topic - I'll shut up now.

Until electrification, Bradford services on the Aire Valley terminated at Keighley.

 

[philosopher]

Had a quick look at Chiltern at the Birmingham end, but it's not possible to fully understand what's happening until the WMR trains are online as well.

A couple of (or three) observations

• The 2 TPH between Birmingham and Marylebone is restored throughout the day Monday to Saturday.
• Dorridge and Warwick now also receive calls from both of the trains per hour.
• The Leamington to Birmingham stoppers remain - I recall reading that there was a plan to withdraw them and add Lapworth and Hatton stops to some of the Marylebone services.

Between London and Birmingham, Saturday services definitely are better, with two trains restored throughout the day. Weekday trains have been slowed down however with trains generally taking two hours, whereas currently some trains take 1 hour 45 to 1 hour 50 minutes.

There is definitely a lot more consistency in the timetable compared to the current timetable which is a bit all over the place. Dorridge seems to be the big winner, it will probably get back it four to five trains an hour to Birmingham.

 

[Halish Railway]

Silly. Provides access to the New Forest and the IoW via Lymington. They always used to stop there, why not now? Saving 2 minutes on a 5 hour journey to Bournemouth? The path presumably allows the stop, as it was always made in the normal timetables in existence up to 2019.

I am glad to see the restoration of the hourly service to Bournemouth, though.



I've been this way just once (in early 2013) and it seemed to be (from somewhat limited observations) that 333s ran the off-peak service but 322s (?) covered some peak extras.

Generally since May 2018 at least 1/3 services have been 32xs/331s.

 

[Kite159]

It is on a branch line and people wanting London need to change. Not really different from anywhere else in a similar position - eg Henley-on-Thames or Marlow. If the through service was a slow south of Banbury, it wouldn't necessarily be quicker than making a change in any case.

From memory even when Chiltern ran more frequent Stratford-on-Avon - London trains they were effectively an extension of a Banbury stopper so any passengers from Stratford on Avon would change at Leamington/Banbury for a faster London train.

A rough 2 hourly shuttle between Leamington & Stratford on Avon is probably the best, just make sure connections are good at either Leamington or even Warwick (same platform change).

---

Having all the Chiltern services call at Dorridge makes things easier for passengers with split tickets.

 

[nw1]

From memory even when Chiltern ran more frequent Stratford-on-Avon - London trains they were effectively an extension of a Banbury stopper so any passengers from Stratford on Avon would change at Leamington/Banbury for a faster London train.

A rough 2 hourly shuttle between Leamington & Stratford on Avon is probably the best, just make sure connections are good at either Leamington or even Warwick (same platform change).

---

Having all the Chiltern services call at Dorridge makes things easier for passengers with split tickets.

I never used Chiltern Stratford services but did look at the timetable from time to time - there seemed to be a service about once every 3 hours though one of them was at a convenient time for daytrippers to Stratford from London.

I can see why it's operationally inconvenient though, as it would require an extension of a Banbury service some considerable distance. I guess they figured out that these Stratford extensions did not bring in enough income to make them worthwhile.

 

[Halish Railway]

Having all the Chiltern services call at Dorridge makes things easier for passengers with split tickets.

Given that, Chiltern won’t add more stops there than they need to

 

[brad465]

As expected then with the Elizabeth line taking over the majority of the relief line traffic.

All North Cotswold (Oxford) services no longer call at Slough from May. Instead, Paddington-Didcot are fast Paddington-Slough

Realtime Trains | 1D22 1123 London Paddington to Oxford | 22/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1D22 1123 departure from London Paddington to Oxford on 22/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like Eton students will have a harder time getting to their future University

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding it, but as a Didcot user I can't help but be disappointed by the May 2023 timetable.

• Services now seem very bunched. London seems to have 3 fasts an hour, but two are within a few minutes of each other. Likewise towards Oxford there are some annoying gaps?
• No longer 2 tph towards Bristol. Surely this affects services from Oxford heading west which is a bit rubbish.
• I haven't looked at frequency and spread of London/Reading to Didcot but if one of the Bristols has been cut, will the Oxfords be consistently 9 cars? I used to avoid the Oxfords (on Sundays for example when they called) as they were often a 5 and full from Oxford already.
• Losing Hayes on the semi fasts means Heathrow is now two changes away. Very frustrating.
• London to Bristol users who use split ticketing at Didcot will now need to be careful. Obviously it's in GWRs interest to close this but the regular pattern being closed is frustrating

Didcot used to be skipped by 1tph from Bristol TM in the HST days not that long ago. It was only when the Dec 2019 timetable kicked in that this changed.