New Scottish COVID-19 Restrictions 07/10/2020

[computerSaysNo]

It's also completely arbitrary and ridiculous, which is what makes me so angry. I live in West Lothian, at the Edinburgh end of Winchburgh to be precise, and the West Lothian/City of Edinburgh boundary is about half a mile away. It's now illegal for me to cross it, and people the other side of it have considerably more freedom than I do, including access to Edinburgh and non-essential retail. Even worse, my wife is a driving instructor who mostly works in Edinburgh. Although travel for work you can't do from home is allowed, driving instruction is banned in level 4 areas, and she's not allowed to travel to level 3 to work either. And...guess what...she's only just resumed work after a month off with COVID.

I'm absolutely furious. We're the only people in Winchburgh who have had COVID in months, and I don't know a single other local that's had it, yet we're being treated far worse than people only a few minutes' walk away.

I'd have felt far better about this if the whole of Scotland, or even the Central Belt, was treated the same, but no. And why the hell is Falkirk a level 3 island surrounded by level 4?

I agree it's a bit pointless having different council areas in different covid levels, especially when some of the borders are built up on/near both sides.

The travel ban is going to be completely unenforceable; Edinburgh and Mussleburgh will be in different levels and therefore travel between them will not be allowed, even though the built up areas of them are merged together and there are 52 buses an hour off peak going between them.
There are 70 buses an hour between Edinburgh and Midlothian, so again it's unenforceable.

 

[Scotrail314209]

North Ayrshire and Inverclyde are in an extremely similar position to Musselburgh.. all surrounded by Tier 4 areas. People travel regularly between the Ayrshires... how can they enforce a ban?

There’s a lot of worry about shoppers coming from other parts of Ayrshire and causing cases to skyrocket.

On a bus going through Dreghorn near Irvine now. At least 30 school kids queueing outside a co-op, with 90% not wearing a mask... shameful.

 

[Logan Carroll]

On a bus going through Dreghorn near Irvine now. At least 30 school kids queueing outside a co-op, with 90% not wearing a mask... shameful.

Jesus Christ they’re kids, leave them alone.

 

[island]

On a bus going through Dreghorn near Irvine now. At least 30 school kids queueing outside a co-op, with 90% not wearing a mask... shameful.

There is no requirement to wear a face covering whilst queueing outside a shop.

 

[kez19]

There is no requirement to wear a face covering whilst queueing outside a shop.

However in a statement from Nicola Sturgeon few weeks back or so..she did say to the public to try and wear them as often as possible (at a guess including something like this)

I agree with you though as that is what I would do until I stepped in to the shop

 

[Scotrail12]

I've seen a lot of kids not complying with the face coverings on trains. Not going to lie that I was a bit frustrated as it felt like they were above the rules but really, on second thought, I and pretty much everyone else here were able to have a normal childhood without any of this mask/distancing stuff so they deserve to have the same opportunity.

Jesus Christ they’re kids, leave them alone.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I also forgot to mention that there was no distancing in place whatsoever, and the driver of the bus I was on let school kids pile into an already busy bus.

I’d understand S1/2/3 kids forgetting their face masks... but a lot of the school children were all in S4/5/6. They should be responsible enough by that age to know when to put masks on and how to distance.

This is not me having a full on rant about kids, but I feel Secondary School students are letting the side down a bit, as 99% of the people around my age (I’m 19) are wearing masks..

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I think kids are just an easy target. I see plenty members of the older generation with face coverings around their chin or under their nose but no one seems to bat an eyelid.

Given that physical distancing is not required in schools, is there a realistic expectation that they should distance themselves outside of schools?

 

[Logan Carroll]

I also forgot to mention that there was no distancing in place whatsoever, and the driver of the bus I was on let school kids pile into an already busy bus.

I’d understand S1/2/3 kids forgetting their face masks... but a lot of the school children were all in S4/5/6. They should be responsible enough by that age to know when to put masks on and how to distance.

This is not me having a full on rant about kids, but I feel Secondary School students are letting the side down a bit, as 99% of the people around my age (I’m 19) are wearing masks..

I thought you were talking about primary school kids from your post.

But i’ve definitely seen more middle aged and elderly people not wearing masks than teenagers.

 

[kez19]

I think kids are just an easy target. I see plenty members of the older generation with face coverings around their chin or under their nose but no one seems to bat an eyelid.

Given that physical distancing is not required in schools, is there a realistic expectation that they should distance themselves outside of schools?

The targets/goalposts seem to be getting moved everytime during this, surely it’s not just me seeing this?


Regarding buses and distancing its not possible at best of times especially a single decker as it gets easily packed and this was pre-Covid too

 

[computerSaysNo]

At least 30 school kids queueing outside a co-op, with 90% not wearing a mask... shameful.

I also forgot to mention that there was no distancing in place whatsoever, and the driver of the bus I was on let school kids pile into an already busy bus.

I've replied to this on the Lothian Buses thread as my response is more appropriate to that thread.

 

[route101]

Glasgow City Centre was busy today.

Yeah, my bank, dentist etc are over the council border!

 

[Scotrail12]

Glasgow City Centre was busy today.

Yeah, my bank, dentist etc are over the council border!

It sure was - the queues outside some shops on Argyle St were crazy.

I think it's fairly obvious by the number of people out that they don't agree with this lockdown. It's a far cry from March.

 

[kez19]

It sure was - the queues outside some shops on Argyle St were crazy.

I think it's fairly obvious by the number of people out that they don't agree with this lockdown. It's a far cry from March.

At a guess people are "voting" by their feet?

 

[AngusH]

I'm sure also that there are some people who have become utterly fed up with the dismal newspapers/tv/internet news, given up on it and then simply never heard that the rules have changed.

If you don't watch the news and/or regularly visit the government websites, would you know?
How often is a person expected to read the law to see if it's changed?


(Regardless of whether you consider the current scheme to be good bad or indifferent)



I think the politicians/civil service types probably follow the news intently and may not appreciate this...

 

[Strathclyder]

People are scared.

They are scared of their elderly and vulnerable relatives and friends

They are scared of losing their job and not being able to pay off their mortgage

They are scared of not being able to afford what their kids want for Christmas.

And most of all they don’t want to be trapped in their houses for weeks on end due to vague reasons given by career politicians.

The COVID crisis has been bizarre blend of panic and complacency mostly due to both its low death rate and the uncertainty about it in the start (not helped by the CCP using any chance to downplay it to the point of murdering the man who leaked it initially.)

And you think I'm not? Honestly, I'm bloody terrified.

This virus has affected us all financially, emotionally, and mentally. And yes, we're worried about what will happen over the winter months and beyond. Why would my family be any different from yours or anybody else's right now? We are not, nor have we ever claimed to be, special. I haven't been living in a bubble for the last 8 months, I am fully aware of the toll this is taking on our collective health, finanically, mentally and physically. I'm also acutely aware of the government's hamfisted/misguided/politically motiviated (whichever you think best applies, that's your business) handling of this and how divisive that hornet's nest of a subject is. I don't take kindly to the assumption that just because I didn't mention or allude to them in my original post, I wasn't aware of the above effects. I am many things, but stupid isn't one of them.

I knew at the start I was painting a bullseye on my back for even daring to think about putting partisan politics, policy/guideline disagreements and the associated public discourse aside for a moment to bring back into focus the human cost of this virus, the lives it has claimed and the lives it nearly has claimed through my family's experiences in this, the darkest aveune of this crisis. That, and/or I'd be largely ignored (thank you for the kind words, @nlogax. Genuinely, they were appreciated). Perhaps this thread isn't quite the place for it (my fault if I've overlooked such a thread), but as I live in Scotland, it was a no-brainer as far as that aspect of it was concerned.

Whether or not you agree with me, I have said what I wanted to say on this subject and I stand by it. Have at it and me; I can guarantee you that it won't be nearly as painful as being on the emotional tenterhook that was my uncle's hospitalization for this wretched disease.

Damned am I in the eyes of society for being able to put politics aside for once.

 

[AngusH]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand the position here?


(my sympathies for your family member and I hope for the best)

 

[Logan Carroll]

And you think I'm not? Honestly, I'm bloody terrified.

This virus has affected us all financially, emotionally, and mentally. And yes, we're worried about what will happen over the winter months and beyond. Why would my family be any different from yours or anybody else's right now? We are not, nor have we ever claimed to be, special. I haven't been living in a bubble for the last 8 months, I am fully aware of the toll this is taking on our collective health, finanically, mentally and physically. I'm also acutely aware of the government's hamfisted/misguided/politically motiviated (whichever you think best applies, that's your business) handling of this and how divisive that hornet's nest of a subject is. I don't take kindly to the assumption that just because I didn't mention or allude to them in my original post, I wasn't aware of the above effects. I am many things, but stupid isn't one of them.

I knew at the start I was painting a bullseye on my back for even daring to think about putting partisan politics, policy/guideline disagreements and the associated public discourse aside for a moment to bring back into focus the human cost of this virus, the lives it has claimed and the lives it nearly has claimed through my family's experiences in this, the darkest aveune of this crisis. That, and/or I'd be largely ignored (thank you for the kind words, @nlogax. Genuinely, they were appreciated). Perhaps this thread isn't quite the place for it (my fault if I've overlooked such a thread), but as I live in Scotland, it was a no-brainer as far as that aspect of it was concerned.

Whether or not you agree with me, I have said what I wanted to say on this subject and I stand by it. Have at it and me; I can guarantee you that it won't be nearly as painful as being on the emotional tenterhook that was my uncle's hospitalization for this wretched disease.

Damned am I in the eyes of society for being able to put politics aside for once.

My point was to not jump down peoples throats for not acting their best during this.

Many people have other issues that have been exacerbated by this.

It’s not a contest for whoever was most emotionally and physically hurt by this.

 

[Strathclyder]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand the position here?


(my sympathies for your family member and I hope for the best)

My position basically is that no matter where one stands in regards to Holyrood's approach to containing/controlling this disease and how one expresses their opinion/views on the matter, keep in mind the human cost of it. That's it.

I'll admit that I could have expressed it better in that last post; guess that's what happens when I bottle my frustration for 8 months.

My point was to not jump down peoples throats for not acting their best during this.

Many people have other issues that have been exacerbated by this.

It’s not a contest for whoever was most emotionally and physically hurt by this.

I admit, I've been rather blunt in my replies (I apologize for that). All I was doing was casting a light on this particular aspect of this crisis through my family's experience and giving a voice to those familes who may not be able to speak up. Not once have we thought of ourselves as unique, nor have we sought special treatment. All my initial post was at it's core was a reminder that no matter where we stand on these issues, this is everyone's struggle and that we need to remind ourselves of that every once in a while amidst the fogs of differing opinions. Not a grab for sympathy or the setting up of a pity party or a contest to see who's drowning in the most misery. Goes without saying, but given how toxic things tend to get, it seems like it's all too easily forgotten.

 

[Butts]

It's also completely arbitrary and ridiculous, which is what makes me so angry. I live in West Lothian, at the Edinburgh end of Winchburgh to be precise, and the West Lothian/City of Edinburgh boundary is about half a mile away. It's now illegal for me to cross it, and people the other side of it have considerably more freedom than I do, including access to Edinburgh and non-essential retail. Even worse, my wife is a driving instructor who mostly works in Edinburgh. Although travel for work you can't do from home is allowed, driving instruction is banned in level 4 areas, and she's not allowed to travel to level 3 to work either. And...guess what...she's only just resumed work after a month off with COVID.

I'm absolutely furious. We're the only people in Winchburgh who have had COVID in months, and I don't know a single other local that's had it, yet we're being treated far worse than people only a few minutes' walk away.

I'd have felt far better about this if the whole of Scotland, or even the Central Belt, was treated the same, but no. And why the hell is Falkirk a level 3 island surrounded by level 4?

Mystery to me, but as a resident I'm grateful for small mercies.

Next week I will be venturing into Fife (St Andrews) to visit my daughter.

Wonder if the Kincardine Bridge is guarded by a machine gun emplacement yet

 

[Scotrail12]

Still busy in Glasgow today.

Seems like people might be seeing through her now. After all, I don't really know much people in support of lockdowns (well, ignoring fellow students and their far left wing views).

An idea I have is that every penny lost from businesses during this 3 week shutdown should be paid back by all of the MP's/MSP's in favour of it. I think that the attitude would change very quickly among them if true.

 

[island]

With effect from 18:00hrs tonight it is an offence for anyone who lives in Scotland to enter or remain in England, Ireland (north and south), or Wales, or for anyone who lives in the latter places to enter or remain in Scotland.

The usual assortment of exemptions, such as obtaining food or supplies, medical assistance, work, and so on apply, as well as transiting through one country.

This was enacted by section 5 (2) of the Health Protection Coronavirus Restrictions and Requirements Local Levels Scotland Amendment No. 3 Regulations 2020.

 

[Yew]

With effect from 18:00hrs tonight it is an offence for anyone who lives in Scotland to enter or remain in England, Ireland (north and south), or Wales, or for anyone who lives in the latter places to enter or remain in Scotland.

The usual assortment of exemptions, such as obtaining food or supplies, medical assistance, work, and so on apply, as well as transiting through one country.

This was enacted by section 5 (2) of the Health Protection Coronavirus Restrictions and Requirements Local Levels Scotland Amendment No. 3 Regulations 2020.

So it is illegal for me to go to Scotland now, surely there is no case for that being a proportionate?

Also, how can Scottish law make it illegal to remain in England, where by definition, Scottish law does not apply?

 

[island]

So it is illegal for me to go to Scotland now, surely there is no case for that being a proportionate?

Also, how can Scottish law make it illegal to remain in England, where by definition, Scottish law does not apply?

Lots of COVID19 legislation has been disproportionate, ineffective, or just plain dumb (and Scotland does not have a monopoly).

 

[221129]

Will be interesting to see how they enforce that!

 

[Bantamzen]

With effect from 18:00hrs tonight it is an offence for anyone who lives in Scotland to enter or remain in England, Ireland (north and south), or Wales, or for anyone who lives in the latter places to enter or remain in Scotland.

The usual assortment of exemptions, such as obtaining food or supplies, medical assistance, work, and so on apply, as well as transiting through one country.

This was enacted by section 5 (2) of the Health Protection Coronavirus Restrictions and Requirements Local Levels Scotland Amendment No. 3 Regulations 2020.

This has to be one of the most stupid & insane laws yet.

 

[duncanp]

Regaring hospitality in Scottish Tier 2, there is a mismatch between what it says on the Scottish government website legislation.

On www.gov.scot it says for tier 2:-

Restaurants, cafes, pubs and bars can open indoors for the consumption of food and non alcoholic drinks. Alcoholic drinks can only be served with the purchase of a main meal. Last entry is 19:00 and all venues must be closed and all customers off the premises by 20:00. The hospitality sector should follow: sector guidance for tourism and hospitality

Restaurants, cafes, pubs and bars can open outdoors for the consumption of food and alcoholic drinks. Last entry is 21:30 and all venues must be closed and all customers off the premises by 22:30

However, according to this newspaper article, the actual statute published and approved by the Scottish parliament says:-

“A person who is responsible for carrying on a drinks-only public house business in a level 2 area must close to members of the public any premises operated as part of the business, and not carry on business at such premises otherwise than in accordance with this paragraph.

EXCLUSIVE: Council environmental health manager admits Aberdeen ‘may have got the balance wrong’ in pub opening dispute

Aberdeen's environmental health boss has admitted the local authority may yet fall into line with Aberdeenshire and other level 2 areas - risking the

www.pressandjournal.co.uk

Aberdeen’s environmental health boss has admitted the local authority may yet fall into line with Aberdeenshire and other level 2 areas – risking the potential closure of a small number of pubs in the city.

The P&J was given an exclusive interview with Andrew Morrison, after highlighting an inconsistent approach across the north-east.

While Aberdeenshire Council has ordered the closure of 44 drinks-only pubs, Aberdeen City has allowed around a dozen to stay open.

Three other Scottish local authorities placed at level 2 of the tiered coronavirus restrictions have also prescribed so-called ‘wet pubs’ shut up shop.

While Aberdeen City Council claims it may be its tier 2 counterparts who change approach – dependent on the outcome of discussions with the Scottish Government – Mr Morrison admitted they may have it wrong themselves.

The protective services manager said it comes down to a grey area as the council “tries to walk a line” between the “main priority” of public health needs and allowing businesses to trade where safe to do so.

“This is partly reading the legislation in light of what we perceive to be the intention of it, as well as the letter of the law,” he added.



New regulations, which came into effect at the start of the month, ordered the mandatory closure of wet pubs – those without facilities to prepare a main meal – in level 2 areas.

Pubs able to serve food can stay open, even for customers only after a drink in their outdoor areas.

Mr Morrison said: “It then comes down to what are appropriate facilities if you have no intention to actually use them.

“That’s where we are looking – does it require a full kitchen? My personal view is that wouldn’t necessarily be the case.

“If someone said ‘we are going to have facilities to heat some ready meals and make them available to customers if they wanted them’ – even though they are not going to serve them?

“The difficulty is they have to have the facility to be able to do it but not use it.


“It’s a very difficult one, judging where the line is, it is trying to get the balance right and we may have got that wrong.

“Nothing is written in stone and we will take on board the advice we get and act accordingly, of course.”

 

[Mag_seven]

This has to be one of the most stupid & insane laws yet.

I would love to know if the powers that have been exercised here are actually allowed for in the Scotland Act 1998. Is anyone up there prepared to mount a legal challenge to all these laws and restrictions (in relation to cross border travel)?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It's been reported on the "Fife jammer locations" facebook page that "there are police pulling people before Queensferry crossing from Edinburgh to Fife."

Related to the new ban on travel between level 3 and level 4 areas I wonder?

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Regaring hospitality in Scottish Tier 2, there is a mismatch between what it says on the Scottish government website legislation.

There is a gap here - the main documentation on the Strategic Framework documents and the ScotGov website indicate pubs can open for outdoor drinking without food in Level 2 however the Regulation states that pubs that do not have facilities for preparing a main meal cannot open


From the regulations:

Closure of drinks-only public house businesses in a Level 2 area
4.—(1) A person who is responsible for carrying on a drinks-only public house business in a Level 2 area must—
(a)close to members of the public any premises operated as part of the business, and
(b)not carry on business at such premises otherwise than in accordance with this paragraph.

(2) Sub-paragraph (1) does not prevent food or drink being sold for consumption off the premises.

(3) For the purposes of this paragraph, a “drinks-only public house business” means any public house which does not have available on its premises facilities to allow the preparation and service of a meal such as might be expected to be served as the main midday or main evening meal, or as a main course at either such meal.

We've taken this up with our MSPs to try and get clarification (I'm in East Lothian which is about to move to Level 2 so it's just come onto the radar here)